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Ubpclaw
Username: Ubpclaw

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 8:29 am:   

Did anyone notice in the trailer that it shows Jake Gyllenhall (Graysmith) solving the 340 cipher? I wonder what Donald Harden has to say about that.
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Sanfranguns
Username: Sanfranguns

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 8:43 am:   

People shouldn't take it too seriously if this film isn't dead on. I thought Zodiac, which was very accurate, was very very boring. Film makers don't have a responsibility to give every fact - they have every right to change things for dramatic affect. They are basically telling a story - not necessarily THE story. They have to make it engaging and interesting to a wide audience (not just the few people who follow the case closely). This might require a "made-up" ending because the z story, while a very interesting broader story, is pretty open-ended.

As someone else pointed out - this isn't a documentary. It's a fictionalized piece of entertainment based on a true-life occurance.

I think film-goers who might develop an interest in the case and choose to persue it more are smart enough to recognize this.
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 12:32 pm:   

Ubpclaw, I noticed a scene where Gyllenhaal worked the three-part cipher, which was actually solved by Don Harden. Hopefully it'll turn out that he was "warming up" with the three parter before tackling the 340. We all know he solved neither.

Sanfranguns, don't be so quick to make excuses for the film. I'm also hoping for the best. However, if, in fact, they portray the Zodiac case as having been solved, that can only be described as irresponsible. And if you disagree, pretend you're explaining your case to Darlene Ferrin.
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Ubpclaw
Username: Ubpclaw

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 12:36 pm:   

Your right, it was the three part cipher he was shown working on, not the 340. Sorry, my mistake.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   

I had the same thoughts watching Gyllenhaal working on the 3-part cipher.

I'm really curious how the movie is going to present Greysmith's "solution" to the 340 cipher. For those unfamiliar, here's Graysmith's brilliant 340 cipher solution:

HERB CAEN:

I GIVE THEM HELL TOO. BLAST THESE LIES. SLUETH SHOELD SEE A NAME BELOW KILLEERS FILM. A PILLS GAME. PARDON ME AGCEPT TO BLAST NE. BULLSHIT. THESE FOOLS SHALL MEET KILLER. PLEAS ASK LUNBLAD. SOEL AT H LSD UL CLEAR LAKE. SO STARE I EAT A PILL, A**HOLE. I PLANT MR A H PHONE LAKE B. ALL SSLAVES BECAUSE LSD WILL STOLEN EITHER SLAVE SHALL I HELL SLASH TOSCHI? THE PIG STALLS DEALS OC EIGHTH SOEL SLAIN.

Did Z have some kind of massive head injury between the time he created the 3-part and 340 ciphers? It's not a terrible effort, IMO, but to claim it as a solution is laughable.
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 1:12 pm:   

Maybe Kane designed it for him after the cement-truck accident...
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 7:26 pm:   

We'll ask him if he'll ever answer his mail, lol.
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Sanfranguns
Username: Sanfranguns

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 1:37 pm:   

I can't explain it to Darlene Ferrin - she's dead. And that's not the point. The filmmakers didn't kill her and I stand by my point with all due respect Tom - you guys don't give movie goers much credit. They aren't going to over-intellectualize this film like we are all doing. And again - if they develop an interest in the subject matter I'm sure this is the first site they will come to to learn more. How about when the film comes out someone develop a Truth vs. Entertainment page for the front page? That would maybe solve the issue
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   

Sanfranguns, I know she's dead; hence my use of "pretend."

Manipulating audiences into believing the Zodiac case has been solved is about as irresponsible as denying the holocaust happened.
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 1:47 pm:   

Once again, I haven't seen the film. My point was if they portray the case as being solved it would be irresponsible. For all I know the ending is open, just as in reality. Anything else is unacceptable and irresponsible, especially considering the "Based on true events" graphic in the trailer.
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 2:02 pm:   

It would be easier to give the mass of movie goers credit if they wouldn't believe everything they see.
Many people thought that Childress, TX really had a chainsaw massacre. Remember the Blair Witch crowd that bought into that hype? Look at the Oliver Stone phenomenon. The Michael Moore propaganda. Faces of Death. Loose change. Amityville. Movies claiming to be reality and the mass market that continues to buy it as fact; The list goes on and on. Naivety makes money. Facts are for the geeky few.

The fact that movie-goers will see the movie and take it at face value ("oh, its based on a true story") is what makes it wrong to claim it as the gospel truth.

The Zodiac has never been identified. (See how well that does at the box office.)
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Sanfranguns
Username: Sanfranguns

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 2:02 pm:   

OK - I'll agree that it is maybe irresponsible on some levels - although I think you're comparing apples to oranges there on the holocaust thing. I have just seen people get all upset on this board and I think we should get some perspective here.
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Sanfranguns
Username: Sanfranguns

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 2:04 pm:   

nevermind
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   

It was just an example. People who deny the holocaust usually have a personal interest in doing so that has nothing to do with reality.

In any event, I understand the film isn't a documentary and don't expect it to be. I'm not concerned about factual errors, etc, as long as they get the ending right.

The case is UNSOLVED, regardless of which book they bought the rights to.
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   

---> To the Egress --->
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Sanfranguns
Username: Sanfranguns

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 10:06 am:   

I feel what you're saying tom
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Dave
Username: Dave

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 12:12 pm:   

From all I have been gathering it seems that the film will end with a deal of ambiguity, allowing viewers to draw their own conclusion. We all know who Graysmith is convinced Z was. However, Fincher is a VERY VERY smart man who researches and scrutinizes every aspect of his productions within every department. The big suprise will be if there is any mention, either spoken or in an end crawl, about the DNA tests.
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Ubpclaw
Username: Ubpclaw

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   

Im expecting something like "From Hell" (Johnny Depp movie bout JTR). In that movie they touched on all the major suspects in the case, but in the end let you believe that the royal doctor was in fact The Ripper and that the killings were sanctioned by The Queen
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 1:05 pm:   

Lol...are you saying Allen was a queen???

From Hell was a great film. If Zodiac compares, I can't be too disappointed, unless they are uncompromising regarding Zodiac's identity.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   

I still think it's going to end by saying something like, "Z was never identified, but it is the feeling among LE and other investigators that Allen was Z. If it weren't for screwups in the investigation..." Without actually saying it, I have the sneaking suspicion that they'll strongly and unambiguously imply that Allen has to be Z. Harry Martin did the same thing by implying that officer Richard Hoffman killed Ferrin in the ambulance, but never actually named or accused him...

The first officer on the scene has stated publicly that Ferrin was dead. However, two other officers who examined her at the scene not only found her alive, they felt she was going to live. The officer, who claimed she was dead, was the only person in the back of the ambulance enroute to the hospital with her. She was pronounced DOA at the hospital. (The Napa Sentinel, 5-19-2005, p. 14).

So, it's entirely possible to "leave the ending open" but, at the same time, tell the audience what to think...
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 3:52 pm:   

Graysmith was everywhere I looked.
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Dave
Username: Dave

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 6:50 pm:   

Been getting very tired of how everyones minds are made up on the movie, having not seen it or read it, therefore I am happy to report that the IMDB page for Zodiac updated it's cast credits and an actress named Gloria Grant is credited as Mrs. Betty Harden. Get it? Hopefully this will calm some people down about a three hour plus movie that they have seen 2 minutes and 30 seconds of edited down together as a marketing tool.

Fincher....smart man.....doesn't leave stones unturned.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 6:59 pm:   

I remember Alien 3; it was a poor retread of Alien and Aliens combined. I bet Zodiac will be entertaining, no doubt about it. After all, it is based on two novels...
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Dave
Username: Dave

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 9:05 pm:   

Touche Edward! LOL!

You know what I mean though...let's ream it apart AFTER we see it.

BTW - I trust you saw Mike's Amazon review was taken down?

D
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 9:31 pm:   

Sure did... gee, I thought we had free speech here in this country...

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