Why the name "Zodiac" Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Zodiackiller.com Message Board » General Zodiac Discussion » Possible Zodiac Influences » Why the name "Zodiac" « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:47 pm:   

I've heard a few theories over the years on how the Zodiac came to choose his name. Some think that it was an astrological thing. Killing by the alignment of the universe and the stars,if you will. Still, others think that it was taken from a brand of watch. Who knows?
How do you think he came to choose his name?
Below is a link to some very interesting info. Most people believe (I think) that the Zodiac had former military ties. Here is my theory as to where he got his name:
http://www.zodiacmilpro.com/product/military/index .html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:56 pm:   

Zodiac watch
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:09 pm:   

Very interesting to say the least! What is it?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:13 pm:   

The Zodiac watch. It was mostly sold to men in their 30s, at least that's who the marketing targeted.

In 1969, the company advertised in both of San Francisco's main newspapers.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Warren
Username: Warren

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:21 pm:   

I saw a Zodiac watch ad in a 1972 Playboy and wonder if they advertised in earlier issues.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:26 pm:   

Ya learn something everyday. I had a timex myself.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:26 pm:   

The below image is from 1969.

Zodiac Watch Ad
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:27 pm:   

Warren, yes the ads were also in earlier issues of Playboy.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   

By the way, SF Nite Rider, to be ignorant of the Zodiac watch means you must have successfully avoided the archived message board, News Center, Arthur Leigh Allen File, as well as the two best-known books (and several of the most recent TV shows) on the case.

The question is, with your lack of knowledge, what business do you have formulating theories? If this case interests you I'd think you would want to absorb all of the info available first. You seem to be doing the exact opposite.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:37 pm:   

The name and the symbol are right there. Is there anywhere else in the universe besides Z's letters where that name and word are synonymous?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 9:28 pm:   

The Zodiac watch idea is fascinating, no doubt, especially since a very viable suspect proudly owned one.

Ed said: "The name and the symbol are right there. Is there anywhere else in the universe besides Z's letters where that name and word are synonymous?"

I would argue that the name "Zodiac" and the circle/cross symbol are also consistent with astrological symbolism. The cross divides the circle into seasons and Z indicated a penchant for astrology by marking his conquests according to the solar calendar by the x's at the end of his Bus-Bomb letter.

Even if ALA was Z, I can't fathom him basing his identity as a serial killer on his favorite watch. The identification goes far deeper, IMO.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 2:48 am:   

Remember, the symbol preceded the name.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 5:33 am:   

Interesting point, Doug, although the symbol only preceded the name by 5 days. It does make you wonder why Z didn't refer to himself as "Zodiac" in the 7/31/69 letters, which seem to have been far more calculated than the sloppy "Debut of Zodiac letter".

I'm sure you've addressed this before but any ideas why Ted K. would choose this particular name and symbol for his killing persona? Actually, I think that's a valid question for any suspect...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:09 am:   

With Ted, it probably has a lot to do with the fact that his name contains all the letters of "the Zodiac," namely Theodore Kaczynski.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 12:04 pm:   

I believe Zodiac was responsible for the Riverside communications, if not the murder of Cheri Bates. That's where the "time" connection starts, even if it's just coincidence. (Please let's not turn this into a Bates discussion.)

First, a watch was found at the Bates crime scene. Then,
the Bates confession was sent containing the word "time" three times in quick order.

A few years later as "Zodiac," the first three letters gave a time limit to publish his ciphers. Other time references followed, including what could be a clock face on the Mt. Diablo map.

Finally, the Citizen letter of 1974 features the word "time" written at a different angle as the rest of the letter and placed directly in the middle of the page, as if that word was written first and the rest of the letter placed around it.

Whoever Zodiac was, the Z watch is my best-bet. As far as suspects are concerned, Allen was the only one I know of who owned one, but I'm sure others did as well.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 2:47 pm:   

Ed, Don't forget the name and symbol are also synonymous with the British automobile made by Ford called the Zodiac. They produced the Zodiac MKI, Zodiac MKII Lowline, Zodiac MKII Highline, Zodiac MKIII, Zodiac MKIV and here is a picture of the Zodiac 1971 Saloon with the Zodiac crosshaired circle hood ornament, although rectangular rather than round it is the symbol:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAP.dll?ViewItem&ite m=4636203549&indexURL=28photoDisplayType=2#ebayhos ting
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 2:57 pm:   

I've never seen the Ford symbol with the cross actually penetrating the circle, as Z's always did.

However, if you're an Allen buff, the rather obscure Ford Zodiac was probably in his knowledge base, as Allen was a huge automobile enthusiast.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 3:12 pm:   

That's my point exactly: there is nowhere else except the Zodiac watch and Z's letters where the name and that cross-circle symbol occur. Yes, the Ford Zodiac is close, but it has a cross-rectangle symbol. Also, the closest astrological symbol to Z's is the solar cross, but the arms of the cross do not extend beyond the circumference of the circle.

So, other than the Zodiac watch, there are no other places I am aware of where that name and that symbol occur together except in Z's written communications. Does that prove that Allen is Z? No. But, unless it can be shown otherwise, it sure as hell looks like Z was inspired by that watch.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Timothy (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 5:50 pm:   

Another reason the name Zodiac could be, it really was a person's name. Example, you do a zaba search for the name Zodiac, and 6 names come up. I believe two are in California.

Just a thought....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:21 pm:   

Ed said:
"So, other than the Zodiac watch, there are no other places I am aware of where that name and that symbol occur together except in Z's written communications. Does that prove that Allen is Z? No. But, unless it can be shown otherwise, it sure as hell looks like Z was inspired by that watch."

Probably true and the fact of ALA owning this Zodiac watch is great circumstantial evidence. Let's presume ALA was Zodiac... why the hell did he choose to take his identity as a serial killer from his favorite watch? Sure... it's a nice watch but I just don't find anything that inspirational about it to make someone assume it's identity. What was Allen's fascination with time?

The solar cross, by the way, is just one variation of the circle and cross combination. There are serveral variations, some with extended arms, some not...

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/racist_celtic_cros s.asp
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 2:41 am:   

Yes, but is the solar cross symbolic of the zodiac? In the context of the Zodiac watch, the symbol does in fact stand for the name "Zodiac." The name and symbol are synonymous only with the watch and the Zodiac Killer.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

FrenchFry (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 6:52 am:   

Ed—I can not agree with you that “the name and symbol are synonymous only with the watch and the Zodiac Killer”, because the name and the symbol were already synonymous before either of these two examples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac

has a good article on the history of both the name and the concept of the zodiac. The symbol that the watch company and Z used is a symbol for an astrological chart, or map of the ecliptic (zodiac) at a certain point in time--a two-dimensional representation of three-dimensional space. The circle represents the ecliptic, with the horizontal arm of the cross representing the horizon, and the vertical arm representing the separation of east and west. Historically, these lines are important in astrology, and are often drawn extending from the circle to visually differentiate the four quadrants of a chart.

In short, the name and symbol are synonymous with the watch company and Zodiac Killer because they both chose to adopt a name and symbol with a long historical connection.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

FrenchFry (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 9:25 am:   

an example:

http://www.aureas.com/AurUS/themes/Galilee.htm
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 12:40 pm:   

FrenchFry: the symbol on the watch is obviously meant to be synonymous with the brand name "zodiac." Likewise, the symbol on Z's letters are synonymous with the name "Zodiac." However, the astrological symbol that most closely resembles Z's is actually the symbol for Earth (5th one down in the first column), not the zodiac in general.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

crimebuff (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 9:00 pm:   

SF Nite Rider:
zodiac products used by the military.. ala was born in hawaii near military... & lived in val. near military.. and its just sort of a cool
name. your theory is as good as anyones.

looked at another way, the bay area has tons of marine zodiac products, i'm guessing. thus, plenty of opportunity to see the name & take a liking to it.

i've not thought of the reason for z using the name but i guess it is more complex than first pondered.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James78 (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 3:40 am:   

Zodiac's a cool name?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

FrenchFry (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 6:24 am:   

Ed,
The symbol for earth was the same as that for a natal chart, and the natal chart is just a picture of the zodiac at a certain instant as seen from the earth.
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/291.html

In essence what I’m saying is that the design guys at the Zodiac Watch Company and the Ford Motor Company did not spontaneously come up with similar symbols for their products. There is a long historic precedent for that symbol representing the zodiac.

A circle, usually divided into twelve parts, visually represents the zodiac.

http://www.astrologycom.com/zodiac.html

but especially when casting a horoscope, it can be simplified, and divided into quadrants, as can be seen by this woodcut of an astrologer working

http://ise.uvic.ca/Library/SLT/plays/learintellect .html

As I mentioned above, the lines of the quadrants often protrude from the circle.

It seems erroneous to state that a specific example of the use of a symbol takes precedence over the general and historic use of that same symbol.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fredcasa
Username: Fredcasa

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 10:12 am:   

One of my theories posted in the "lost" archives is that Z was a sailor, and lived on a sailboat--this has several advantages for a SK..the first is anonymity in the community..no taxes, no fixed address, easy to fade back into the woodwork..2nd of course the Zodiac dingy is very popular among cruisers..and 3rd it would explain his familiarity with radians, used by sailors to plot courses. Also fits in with his supposed fixation with water// it would be so easy for him to sail somewhere, drop anchor, go to shore in his Zodiac dingy, do his thing, then fade into the night to another port. In SF he could have disappeared that night into the nearby marina, and sailed out the next day.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

FrenchFry (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 11:30 am:   

I almost include this in my above post, but it really fits in better with the idea of a sailor—The mariner’s astrolabe for navigation using stars. It is the same shape as the zodiac/Zodiac symbol.

http://www.celestialnavigation.net/instruments.htm l

http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r14310/Ptolemy/Cellari us.html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   

Frenchy,

Wow! I didn't know you were of the female gender! Right on! Regarding your posted link of the natal chart: It says that Odin was considered the---- God Of Art,Culture,Warfare, and the Dead!

God of Art: Zodiac's knowledge of old movies...

God of Culture: The late 60's, hippies, flower children, Viet Nam demonstrations, drugs, free love, etc etc...

God of Warfare: Zodiac's little game of warfare against law enforcement and the general public.

And lastly, The God of The Dead: His slaves that he collected for his afterlife...

Very interesting isn't it?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 10:07 pm:   

French Fry,

You beat me to the posting of Odin's Cross. Bottom line is that the circle/cross combination is an archetypal symbol, of which variations have been used in everything from Hinduism to Catholicism to Naziism.

I think the bottom line is that our ideas about Z's use of this symbol and name depend upon our views about Z himself. Depending on your viewpoint, the symbol could be a bullseye, a watch representation, an astronomical representation or a universal religious symbol or perhaps it was "designed" to have multiple meanings?

Take your pick.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 11:01 pm:   

About the symbol, the Celtic Cross is usually a cross with the four points of the bars extending beyond the circle.
This was derived from the ancient Kiakra cross of the Hindus.

In mathematics there is the Unit Circle that the cross extends beyond the circle. Radians and degrees invloved with that one too.

Maybe the cross and circle is simply him versus us.
Me 37 SFPD 0.
I am +.
I am plus and I am everything.
You are 0.
You are nothing.
+ over 0 and + is larger and greater than º
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 11:15 pm:   

That Celtic deal keeps being brought up. However, that particular symbol has a long tail that protrudes from the circle like a cheap lawn ornament that is intended to be stuck into the ground. Never have I seen Zodiac's symbol drawn that way.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 9:02 pm:   

It's about TIME ! The Z said it for a reason.Why is it so hard to see that tree through the forest ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 9:46 pm:   

Sandy,

Without trying to be argumentative, why was Z so fascinated with TIME?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 12:33 am:   

Maybe he watched Doctor Who (which started in 1963)... that's how I became fascinated with time...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

FrenchFry (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 1:19 am:   

Sandy,
The zodiac IS about measuring time. It tells the time of the year, like a calendar, dividing the year into twelve parts. Its connection with time was so strong that the signs of the zodiac continued to be included in Christian iconology—signs of the zodiac are linked with their corresponding months in both representations of labors of the month on churches

http://www.umehon.maine.edu/images/hon112/chartres /Chartres%20Month%20Labours.jpg


And in the liturgical calendar in book of hours

http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/UPitthoursms/folio10v.ht m

I think the watch and the zodiac as basis for Z’s name and symbol are complimentary elements, not contradictory. As to why time was so important to him, I don’t have a clue.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 1:57 am:   

I keep hearing/reading that the actual cross-circle symbol Z used is astrological (although the examples I have seen thus far show it is close, but not the same). So, assuming that the actual symbol is astrological as well, then we have astrology, the Zodiac watch, and Z's letters where the name and symbol are synonymous.

So, all have to do with time at the very least. But... why?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 2:02 pm:   

There are 12 Houses of the Zodiac. The Houses of Zodiac are modes of expression. Stages if you will, that the planetary energies and points can express themselves out upon. (Cosmic Guide) The Eighth House of Zodiac, in particular, deals with "Death and Regeneration" among others. After pooring over many of the Zodiac Killer's ramblings I can't find any assoication with the Eight House of Zodiac. Did I miss it somewhere?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carl (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:37 am:   

I have the information regarding how Zodiac chose his name .
My father Ed Rosaia first beleived that Zodiac was leaving clues to his Identity, and also based on the information available at the time beleived the killers initials were rh.
Ed also thought that for the killer to have struck at Washington and Maple it was a good chance that the killer lived in the area.
He looked for names which he could associate with the circle and cross and the initials rh.
Sure enough there was a rh in the neighborhood. What else connects the circle and cross symbol to this suspect though.
The name zodiac fits also as Orion the Hunter is a Zodiac Constellation, but not as commonly though but in the Chinese culture.
( which leads me to beleive all the circles and x s and what not may be composed in other than english understanding also)
The circle and cross fits Orion the Hunter

The circle and cross may represent the telescopic rife lens as seen in all Hunting magazines.

The suspect also was a director of Neiman Marcus Group , who coincidently own a chain of resturants in the Mid west so named the Zodiac .

So Robert E Hunter Jr. was a suspect and the clues fit very well.
In fact if you were to tell someone Orion the Hunter was a Zodiac Constellation they would laugh at you or claim you were making it up .
Here a link to the story at Wikapedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(constellation)
So in a nutshell the symbol , the circle and the cross and the Name Hunter are indeesd connected to the name Zodiac .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   

"Believed" is a statement of belief, not fact. Other than 2 specific ciphers, there is no evidence whatsoever that Z was leaving clues to his identity anywhere else in any of his correspondence. That's right out of some Hollyweird movie and a scriptwriter's pen, not real life.

As Okie Mike pointed out, the Desktop Poem is not about murder, it sounds more like teenage angst and suicide; it's something that might be written by a teenage girl or a young woman, not a man. And if it was truly written by Z, then it's not an original composition by him. And, if so, then the two letters at the end of the poem, "rh" (that were interpreted as the author's initials), might indeed be the initials of the original author, not Z.

To assume that Z must have lived in the area just because Z struck in PH makes no sense whatsoever. Using that logic, he is more likely to have lived in Vallejo since his first 2 attacks and first 3 murders occurred there. In fact, since Faraday and Jensen were shot just inside the Benicia city limits, it makes even more sense to look for Z living either on LHR or in Benicia.

Where do you get the idea that the Z symbol is a telescopic rifle sight? Just because the newspapers said so? Maybe Z got the name and the symbol from his Zodiac watch.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 5:34 pm:   

ED,

Your saying that one of the most feared serial killers of the last century,with an ego as big as the Golden Gate Bridge, derived his name and symbol from a little ol' watch? Come on...you are grasping at straws here. You know that as well as I do. With his level of confidence and smarts, I would think that he could do better than that. A killer who writes cryptic messages,taunts LE, kills in broad daylight, etc... gets his name from a brand of watch. Not IMHO!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 5:49 pm:   

Yeah SF Nite Rider, it's much more sophisticated and super-villain like to steal the name from a rubber boat.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ericd
Username: Ericd

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 6:11 pm:   

I think the watch connection is HUGE IF one considers the Bates' murder a Z. If Allen committed the murder and lost his watch at the scene, I'm sure the next watch he owned would have particular significance for him!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 6:44 pm:   

He dedicates a criminal career based on a lost watch?
And commemorates it through a different brand of watch than the one he lost?
Yeah.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 6:59 pm:   

SFNR: have you even looked at the fact that the watch has both the same name and the same symbol? Other than the astrological link (and I really would like someone to post a link that shows the same symbol as used in astrology; I've yet to see it myself, and I have looked), where else do you find the name and the symbol?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:04 pm:   

Oh,and btw, it really strains credulity to believe the idea that horrific murders like those committed by the Manson Family and that their name for it, "Helter Skelter" (which is actually a British term for what we call a slide that is commonly found in a playground), were inspired by a Beatles album. Yet, it really happened. So, what's so difficult to think that Z's name and symbol may have been derived from a watch?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:06 pm:   

Tom,

I figured you would come back with something as such.

It wasn't just a "rubber boat" as you say. Perhaps you need to study about the military side of it's use. It was considered the cadillac of all water fighting craft. Mainly, Navy Seal operations... It was an elite fighting machine! Just what the Zodiac may have considered himself as being? So you see, if the Zodiac was infact a former military man as more than a few of us at this board think, your so called "rubber boat" is the perfect name for him to adopt. Not some pantywaste watch company!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:20 pm:   

Good point about the Mansons, Ed.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:02 pm:   

Helter Skelter besides being a ride was first and foremost a term for turmoil and confusion and in context with the White Album's other songs like Revolution, Revolution #9, Piggies and Blackbird such lyrics from the song "I'm coming down fast but I'm miles above you, tell me, tell me, come on tell me the answer" done to a heavy rock beat and the refrain over and over of Helter Skelter to Manson's mind it ment the Armageddon and the African-American revolution.

Compare that to the Zodiac Watch Company advertising slogan of "The Watch the World has Learned to Trust."

Manson's interpretation was a misguided stretch.
For the Zodiac to base his entire persona and crime spree on a trustworthy timepiece is in my opinion far more of a strain of credulity to have actually happened.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:51 pm:   

Here is a link for some interesting info especially the part about Mare Island:
http://www.seal.navy.mil/swcc/abo_history.asp
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:56 pm:   

It was widely considered that BTK had all sorts of high-brow meaning behind his symbol, letters, codes, crimes, etc. In the end, we were left with ol' dull Dennis the dogcatcher.

Regardless, I doubt Zodiac based his name and symbol on the watch. More likely, his symbol (which came before his name) was intended as a gunsite and soon after using it he noticed the watch had a similar symbol. Needing a snappy name and being located in Astrology Central (the Bay Area), he chose "Zodiac."
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carl (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 5:11 pm:   

Yes Tom you are correct . What other symbol could possibly represent a persons name and his name is also a Zodiac Constellation . This
symbol the circle and cross fits the Hunter theory better than the watch.
Not only that but the guy was a director of Neiman Marcus and they own a chain of resturants so named the Zodiac.

I think it would be impossible to randommly choose someone and have all thes coincidences fit so well. The symbol and name fit . The handwritting fits .
The looks fits and in fact if you seen the Hunter you would think they just drew a picture of him , its that good .

He cant be cleared and the symbol definately fits better than any theory out there . Got a better theory , lets here it .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 5:42 pm:   

Carl,

About the only thing I agree with you on this is, the fact that his symbol was intended to symbolize a crossed gun sight.

We all have our own suspects here, some are the same, some not. In fact my own suspect has just as much, if not a whole lot more circumstsantial evidence and I truely believe him to be the Zodiac, just as you think your man Hunter is.
However, your theory doesn't fit better than any theory out there, as you claim!

If you've been reading, you will see what I believe..... Zodiac boats used by Navy SWCC. The crossed circle, is from the Gun sights used on the 50 cal. weapons mounted on board these attack crafts. If you'll remember back in the old day's of warfare, the sights were pretty primitively made. Just a metal circle with a crossed band of metal going through to aim at your intended target.

So you see Carl..... My theory goes hand in hand just like a boat to water....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 5:57 pm:   

Tom, nice comments on the origin of the name. I agree.-----------I also agree with SF nite about his Mare Island suspicions, and the boat. Like it or not, we had trained killers walking the streets of Vallejo, and coming back to Vallejo after their duty--hitting the bars, shopping,dating,etc. My suspect has not been identified yet. I think he was special ops in SE ASIA, and brought it home! Somewhat like Calley, but I'm not accusing him.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 7:02 pm:   

SF,
"We all have our own suspects here,..."

I for one, after studying this case for sometime and looking at the various suspects most often mentioned, have no suspect.
I don't think Zodiac was one of the more popular or frequently mentioned suspects. I'm not saying he wasn't either but I do think there is a good possibility that of the reported 2500 suspects or 2000 or 1000 or whatever the actual figure was that law enforcement looked into, he may have been among those and was not looked into close enough.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fredcasa
Username: Fredcasa

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 7:16 pm:   

Tom I lived the life of a cruiser--and I can tell you it's not just a rubber boat--it is the only transportation to shore if you are on the hook, it is the only lifeline you have if at sea..you keep it in tip top condition at all times..To you (landlubber) lol, it's just a rubber boat.I think it's very possible he took his name from it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nightshade (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 12:27 am:   

Two cents:

The word zodiac comes from the Greek word zodiakos, which means circle of animals.

Here is a bit more about the constellations: http://members.aol.com/jimb3d/myth/astro.html

Here are some magickal symbols: http://www.esotericarchives.com/abramelin/abrameli n.htm

Here's a link to the photo: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h225/nightshadef iredancer/circle2.jpg
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 10:37 am:   

Don't give Ed such a bad time about the watch and name connection, bash me I am the person who found it in a 2nd hand store in Concord Ca. around 1975. To prove that I am that person, check page 315 in Zodiac unmasked. If you don't I shall do something nasty which you know I am capable of lol.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oklahoma_mike
Username: Oklahoma_mike

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 1:30 pm:   

Remember, it does not have to be one single source, Several things could have inspired the killer together. The watch and symbol is very suggestive, and could well be the inspiration. But those who remember that time will recall that references to astrology, thus the signs of the zosiac, were common. There was the broadway show 'Hair" with the hit song "Age of Aquarius", Linda Goodman's book "Sun Signs" was a best-selling book about astrology. Many of the hippies were into astrology and other mystical philosophies. So any combination of the above plus others could have infpired Z. Heck, I hate to think of the possibility, but maybe he was an amateur astronomer like me!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 8:12 pm:   

Boy, SF Rider, I just read your post about the Zodiac military boats and this sure seems right on! Ex-military would fit with his personality: a sense of "pride" in what he does, intelligence, stealth, accuracy and speed with weapons especially at night, furtive and involved in the matter of "life and death" as the boats were except that they were used to save lives. His sense of sarcasm in causing death could have stemmed from negative influence related to killing in the military.

I find all the above comments interesting but have not posted in years.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 9:17 pm:   

Anon,

This is true.. they were used for both extracation,as well as transporting attack teams to certain locales.. there were many different variations of this type of watercraft, each with it's own specialty.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 10:43 pm:   

I also think he might have been in the military for quite some time, even pre-Vietnam, and had people under him...he seems so comfortable with giving orders! Perhaps he lost his mother while over there and had little family to come back to. Seems like he would have adjusted pretty well to military life but lacked social compatibility and had trouble attracting a female attachment, thus his anger and alienation with women.

Another interesting thing since hearing the long "goodbye"...this is something I would associate more with a student of the smart-alecky type...hmm, post military and taking classes? If he's still alive and disagrees with the new book, maybe he'll write again?! No, I don't think so...if he is still alive I think he's too coy for that. He had the will to live and desires to live out the rest of his life without being caught.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

VerbumSapientiSatEst (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   

Obviously astrology - one look at his crypts, which use so many astrological symbols, is enough to see that.

Of course he may have got interested in and attracted to this watch because of his already existing interest in astrology - and he probably did.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 4:42 pm:   

SF, and Anon. I like your comments about the military angle. If he indeed was involved in Insertion and Extraction in Nam, with his Zodiac boat, it most likely would have been in the southern delta area or the Ca Mao Peninsula. I especially like Anon's comment about " he seems so comfortable with giving orders".
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 10:27 pm:   

VSSE,

I only seen a couple.. those of which were just horoscopic identifiers.. ie: Aries, Taurus, etc.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

stellacotton (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 8:20 pm:   

In my opinion the symbol resembles the Cartesian unit circle used in calculus. Mathematically gifted is a certainty due to ciphers and bomb making skills/diagrams. I think it was wrongly interpreted as crosshair because the first victims were shot and zodiac liked the "blue meanies" being on the wrong path!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

stellacotton (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   

http://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMT668/EMAT6680.F99/Kim /emat6690/instructional%20unit/circle/Circle/Image 91.gif
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 11:01 pm:   

If he was The Calculus Killer why didn't he just bore his victims to death?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 11:06 pm:   

Lol Johno.

Stella, I've yet to see a Zodiac symbol with all of that extra kerfuffle as seen in your link. There's definitely a resemblance, but it's not a dead ringer as the Zodiac watch symbol is.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 12:39 am:   

Hey, Stelllllllaaaaahhh, (sorry);

You wrote that,
Mathematically gifted is a certainty due to ciphers and bomb making skills/diagrams

I think you're correct provided that the unsolved ciphers have anything coherent to say and aren't another Zodiac ruse. The bomb diagrams sent in by the Zodiac, in actuality, are unworkable. At least I think they are. This analysis of the bombs, written by Ray N. made the most sense to my limited brain:

By Ray N (Ray_N) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 08:38 am:

"Please allow me to interject even more technical problems which, in my opinion, would make both of the above described types of bombs unworkable.

In the first, we have a flashlight beam with a light source of a single bulb with a voltage of either 1.5 or 3 volts being driven by a 6 volt battery. It doesn't take an engineer to tell you what effect this would have on the filament of said bulb. (Plus there's no solar panel to keep the battery charged. No matter, the bulb won't last long enough to make a difference.) Add to this that the beam is "focused" by a cheap, shiny plastic reflector, travels down a length of blackened tube, absorbing a fair amount of the puny output, and then it has to travel all the way across the road and then back to the photocell.

Let me illustrate the problems with this by describing a similar device used in aviation. The device I am referring to is called a transmissometer. When pilots are preparing to conduct an instrument approach in low visibility, one of the crucial pieces of information the pilot gets from the tower is the runway visual range (RVR). This is reported ground visibility in hundreds of feet as measured in the touchdown zone by the RVR equipment (the transmissometer). The device consists of a high intesity, highly focused beam of light aimed down the side of the runway to a receiver at a known, fixed distance. A computer compares the known light output vs the intesity of light received, and computes a visibility value based on a factored difference of these two values. The more fog there is, for instance, the less light makes it to the receiver, and the lower the visibility. Each RVR would then have a certain threshold value in terms of the ratio of the above values, one a constant, and the other measured. In order to factor the ratio, many other parameters are evaluated by the computer, such as time of day, sun angle and azimuth (ie, julian date), whether it is raining or snowing (reflection off of particle precipitates), etc, etc. Other light sources are also considered such as runway and other airport lighting at night. In short, it is a fairly complicated calculation. Granted, the results that are desired require more discrimination than would a simple on/off value, however a threshold value would still have to be determined. In other words, light or dark isn't good enough. We'd have to know how light vs how dark. Otherwise the bomb would either not work or would blow up at an indescriminate time. The fact that we would have sunlight coming in from the east competing with a puny reflection of a flashlight bulb would require extremely sensitive equipment to detect. There's nothing here even approaching that. He may as well have used a candle with a wind guard. It's ridiculous.

I suppose the second bomb may be described as a technological evolution, in as much as flint is an improvement over rubbing two wet sticks together for starting a fire. This one is better and worse at the same time. It's better in that it at least attempts to utilize a reliable light source. But the location of that light source is now moving. Since it (the "sunbeam") must be captured within a small apeture, an account must be taken of where the sun rises on the horizon, which changes fairly appreciably every day. At best we might be looking at a 3 day window of opportunity. But wait, it gets worse. Since we have the "arming timer thingy" involved, we can't just track the sun along the horizon, we have to continuously track it's elevation as well, throughout the entire "armed" period, with some method to align the receiving tube both horizontally and vertically to capture the sun at a precise, moving point in the sky. And, unfortunately, that point in the sky would necessarily have to be computed to constantly remain on a line of sight that would be broken by a bus, but not a car. This is a very tall order for something made out of paper tubes and shoe polish.

In short, neither one would stand any chance of doing much except blowing up unexpectedly. It's very juvenile in concept, and it's not anything I'd get within range of. This reminds me of a cartoon contraption where the wind blows on a vane which pulls out a plug in a jar and lets the water run out, unbalancing a lever which drops a rock, which tightens a cord, which pulls a leaf off of a magnifying glass which focuses a sunbeam on the end of a fuse. I can so visualize Zodiac being very amused with his ability to cause so much calamity with a simple drawing.

I'll take the opportunity to point out how strongly this points away from Kaczynski. The drawings were messy, and the logic and planning are unsound.

I guess all this just goes to show the continuing power of Zodiac. A simple threat, a self-admitted hoax, is still driving so much inquiry and investigation some thirty years after the fact. Truly amazing."
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 4:11 pm:   

Here is a link to some interesting stuff..

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/english/mariner.htm

Click on to the keywords: "death and dead" very interesting to say the least..could the Zodiac got some of his sayings and thoughts from something like this?

this whole concept of the water and possible military picture and the "zodiac crafts" goes hand in hand.... check out the whole site.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 3:06 am:   

Having just finished reading "This is the Zodiac Speaking" I now have a slightly different opinion on this (the book really makes you think!). While Zodiac really seems consistent with ex-military, a couple of things would seem now to make that just an illusion. The main thing is the juvenile needs which he had...the desperate complaining to the newspapers if he didn't get his name in the paper, and the threats he made. Somehow this doesn't seem consistent with military discipline (lol) but more of a multiple personality disorder. Of course I guess he could have had a breakdown after the military which led to his violent actions, but his infantile needs for attention lead me to believe otherwise.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   

Anon,

Your contradicting yourself. You have said one thing and then answered it yourself with a totaly reversed statement. Which is it? Was he never a member of the armed forces? Or was he, and had a nervous breakdown after? Or, did he have a personality disorder? Alot of maybe's here.. Your very confusing. You seem to think that he couldn't possibly be former military because of the way he acted. I beg to differ with you. IMO, he knew exactly why he did what he did, including the constant complaining to the newspapers as you say. It wasn't complaining, it was his way of having total control. Remember he is very confrontational, and will do what ever it takes to get what he wants, at all cost.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 12:18 am:   

Hi SF Nite Rider,

Well, I guess you could say the book had a tremendous influence on me, casting things in a slightly different light. I see now both the secretive, angry, violent Zodiac and a very narcissistic, emotionally, even weak and helpless man striking out because he does feel so powerless and alone. I wonder how he could ever have survived the military with such traits. Maybe he got an early discharge or there were other extenuating circumstances. But the book offers insights that now make me believe his rage and emotional volatility started at an early age, that his father was largely absent in his adolescence and many other factors going together to create such a monster. It kind of suggested what made him tick, answers which are left to the imagination short of his being captured. Anyway I'd highly recommend reading Kelleher's book as it does give insights into this complex man.

Anonymous
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 4:26 pm:   

Anonymous,

This was a better explanation of your thoughts on the last post.. However, you don't think that he could have survived the military with such traits? Remember he was only "crazy" when he did his thing.. On the outside he would have been just like anybody else. You would not know the difference. Could he have been a trained killer such as Vallejo Dave stated on an earlier post? Possibly. It takes a special type of individual to be able to pass the Navy Seal and Special Ops training regimen. Not just any mojo can walk on in and make the team. You have to have a heart of steel and the nerves of a rhino..As well as being somewhat intelligent.
He may have used his military time as a release for his hardships, while growing up. And, just maybe,he continued this release, later on down the road.... JMHO
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 9:41 pm:   

SF nite rider,

Now we're back to this man being very strong again, "a heart of steel and nerves of a rhino!" Yes, those were my original impressions also of Zodiac. It wasn't until reading the book that the idea of his also being very weak and infantile emotionally, narcissistic, and desperately needy of the recognition he never got early in life that I entertained the idea of weakness in this man, originating quite likely from violence in the home. Who knows...this just might be a window into the heart and soul of the real Zodiac? Thus the tottering of the big, strong, inpenetrable Zodiac persona hit me with a ton of bricks! Since so many pieces of the puzzle seem to be missing, maybe this could be one of them? If this is the case, that he had a "break" in personality at a young age (rather than in Vietnam, etc., as I originally suspected) then he would have been living with quite an erratic nature during his military service, quite some baggage to carry!

Anonymous
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

SF Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 10:55 pm:   

Anonymous,

You shouldn't take books like that too seriously. After all, they are speculation. Including yellow book as well as unmasked, neither of which I have read. The only true book will be the one that is written after or if, the Zodiac is caught. Then we will know so much more about this 38 yr. old mystery! How can a person write a book when the main player still roams the streets? Not hardly. I tend not to read such garbage. It clogs the brain with alot of irrelevant information I don't need to know about. Besides, where does it get a person anyway?
You do have some very good points though, especially the parts about his life at home. This could be quite possible and more likely probable.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 7:51 pm:   

The Zodiac watch was a watch for divers mostly. We know that Darlene and her husband liked to dive for shells.There is a very good chance that Darlene knew her killer,perhaps he too was a diver and had this watch.The case that held the watch was "blood" red, with the letters in gold. If by chance he gave himself the name Zodiac because he was into astrology,(we all were back then) then he found a watch that had the name he liked using and thought the logo would be cool as well.I can only guess, because we just don't know for sure.Water and time was important to him,we do know that. That watch was used for both.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 2:39 pm:   

Here is an interesting link.. especially the opening page.. also, notice the double anchors on the small widow on the second page. The Vallejo waterfront, happens to house such an anchor at the Mare Island wall.
The International Maritime Orginisation just so happens to be headquartered in London, England.
If my memory is right, there have been a few instances where the Zodiac was thought to have been of Welsh or English decent by the round profile of the face.Possibly by Officer Fouke's description? Also in one of his letters he uses phrasing native to England... (peppermint and phomphet)
imo.org/index.htm
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nite Rider (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 2:43 pm:   

Sorry... forgot something.
here it is:
htt://www.imo.org/index.htm
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert G (Unregistered Guest)
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 5:10 pm:   

The Santa Fe Railroad used a circle/cross pattern in the Zodiac era.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 4:55 pm:   

NR, Nice link but I missed the name Zodiac in there with the circle.I still have to go with the Watch, being it is the only place that has both the name and the logo "exactly" as he has it.Why do I get the feeling we are kicking a dead horse ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

L2829tad
Username: L2829tad

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 12:21 am:   

Sandy,"WE" have been kicking the same "Dead Horse"
for quite some time !It's a wonderfull point of discussion..that leads us nowhere...without tangible evidence..Good Night Gracie ..thardu...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

J_eric
Username: J_eric

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 10:39 pm:   

I wonder if there wasn't an article or photo on the same page as the Zodiac watch ad (or the other side of it), maybe in one of the old Playboy magazines, that set Z off. Say "the girl of his fantasies" or "advice on how to make love." The watch ad gets stuck in his mind as a trigger for that other information. He later asks his mother to buy him such a watch...and it takes off from there.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 11:46 pm:   

Zodiac watches could never settle on a particular advertising slogan and stick with it like Timex did with Takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
Some of Zodiac's slogans from the 50's-60's-70's included: Twice as much time for you money/The most exciting watch you can wear/The world's most trusted watch/For the underwater pro/A new adventure in time/The adventurers watch in or out of the water/ Time never runs out/The world's most modern watch/the watch the world has learned to trust/Set it-Forget it-Forever.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sean
Username: Sean

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 1:50 pm:   

Zodiac went to an awful lot of trouble(apparently)
to sew that symbol into his costume for L.B
That is...something he wanted to wear.
He also requested the people of the bay area wear his symbol on buttons.
I don't think the symbol would have necessarily been something that had some deep meaning for him beforehand, more like it being something he had and could "wear",(like the watch) right under everyone's nose.
Probably the ideas associated with this symbol came later for him as opposed to the other way around!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 1:59 pm:   

Continued here.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration