REPOST: The Police Report Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Zodiackiller.com Message Board » David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen » REPOST: The Police Report « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   

NOTE: This thread was originally started in December 2005. In April 2006 the message board was damaged and I've been forced to repost certain threads. Links may not be operational.

***************************************


Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 10:15 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Here's a link to my latest update; 60 pages of the Lake Herman police report.


Scott Norton
Username: Scott_n

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 11:17 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Great to have this report, Tom. Two questions spring to mind after an initial review.

1. Why was Betty Lou lying with her head facing the vehicle if she was shot running away from it? Did she fall backwards?

2. Why was David clutching a ring in his fingers?


John Prisk
Username: John_prisk

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 11:20 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
thanks Tom - thats a pretty awesome update...

ya'll bringing flowers to Betty Lou's grave is pretty touching.


Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 05:40 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
What John said... reminds us all that this was an innocent 16 year-old girl killed for no reason whatsover. Zodiac may be fascinating to most of us but, at the end of the day, he is a killer who caused immeasurable suffering for his victims' families. A pic like that makes the seemingly impossible effort to nail his a** all the more worthwhile.


Sean
Username: Sean

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 06:29 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Great update Tom,thanks.
I think the thing that struck me most thus far, is the diagram showing where the shell casings were picked up.It does appear Z did fire all his shots at Betty Lou from distance.Certainly brings us back to Z's shooting ability!
Also there is one shot fired at distance from the car. Might this be the initial shot? It seems to be consistent with Z parking inside the victims car as opposed to blocking an escape route (as we always thought)




Dave Torzillo
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 07:50 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Great update, thanks!--I enjoy the pics--shows your and our true concern for the victims.

A bit of irony--The license plate #, Betty Lou's birthdate , and Farraday's age all add up to 17 !!

I too am concerned about how her head was faceing East if she were running away from the shooter.


Fredcasa
Username: Fredcasa

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:18 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I think one thing that struck me was how many people were on that lonely stretch of road..at least I always thought of it as such. Thanks for posting this, each little addition moves us forward..


Colette
Username: Colette

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 11:59 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Maybe Zodiac said "this is a robbery give me your valuables" or David was about to give the ring to Betty Lou when they were interrupted. "Going steady" by trading rings was very popular then. It's very sad either way. I too was surprised by all the traffic that night. Zodiac took a big risk and did not stay long at scene.


Scott Norton
Username: Scott_n

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 03:13 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Could David holding the ring have been some sort of message? Far-fetched perhaps, but interesting.


Dave Torzillo
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 04:21 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Interesting point. Try holding a ring between your ring finger and middle finger.


Al_cabal
Username: Al_cabal

Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 07:30 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
"Around in the snow" = "A round in this no"?




Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:22 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
As per usual fine work mr.T-my hood's off to you!!!

I think the BLJ strike pattern demonstrated -to me,at least- that I will stay with my original idea that Z knew how to shoot and could keep his balance and possessed a degree of agility.

The 'older man' selling drugs at the resturant is of interest,but who was he?Did he factor in the crime?

The teen suspect,in my view, was a waste of valuable time,but of course,at the time he was certainly a 'person of interest.'

I think the shot to the right rear window shows Z was attempting to herd the couple out of the drivers side not the right side.The steering wheel would slow the couple in their departure.
Perhaps Z demanded they exit(for whatever reason-plain clothesman checking for drugs,your rear tire is flat,etc.)the vehicle from the right as the passenger window was down which could show Betty rolled it down to find out what the stranger was saying or motioning.
Having failed in creating a left side exit he then,as det.Lundblad indicated in a news article,stood on the rear bumper and shot into the roof.To L this indicated the perp was 'short.'MM said the attacker was "short"and he was right next to him!
Z then went to the left side and shot at the rear tire rim and this did it and he had to quickly shoot David(Z was not sluggish,but could act quickly)and chase,however short this trek,Berry Lou placing a "remarkable"wound pattern in her back.

The weather was ice cold that night and it takes more energy to move with rapidity and
Z certainly was able to do this and then swiftly get back in his car and leave the scene.
I know when I was with the Z group last year it was so cold you didn't feel like moving slow much less fast-and it wasn't as cold as it was 12/20/68!

I think ,based on Crow's account,Z was an opportunist seeking a couple to kill and having failed to attack Crow and his female companion he ket looking until he spotted the wagon with Betty Jensen and David Faraday.


Ericd
Username: Ericd

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 10:42 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Great job Tom!
It's interesting that the pancake house on Tennessee St is mentioned... Was this investigated?


Ericd
Username: Ericd

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 11:33 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Could David have been taking his class ring off to give the perp believing this was a stickup? It would appear to be the only valuable on him besides possibly his watch.


Dave Torzillo
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 05:07 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
What are "fruit boots" ?

This case is permanently in my mind--I think the same mortician prepped my father's body in 72!

Why weren't the Raccoon hunters charged with something? Hunting on restricted property with dogs in water supply area, and probably a posted area.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 05:14 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
From what I gathered from the police report, there was more than one occupant in the car that chased Crow.


Ed Neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 06:49 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I don't think that's strictly true; Crow saw only one person, but thought it was possible there could have been a second person.


Scott Norton
Username: Scott_n

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 10:02 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Howard's interview of Crow seemed to suggest that there was only one occupant in the car and that the police "wanted" there to be two, right Howie?


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 01:23 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Scott N.,
I posted full details of all that Crow said of that evening.
It was the officer that divined two occupants and the valiant,etc.There could have been two people,but C only saw a driver with 'short' hair and wearing glasses.
He did not recognize the car as being owned by a student from Vallejo.He never saw that car in town.He told me a 'guy was known by his car' then and he never saw the white Chevy in town.V was smaller then or had a lot less people than today,of course.

I am up in the area for the holidays and I hope to go to LHR (and 132)again.Sandy is game,er, wants to go and I hope others will too after Christmas.


Scott Norton
Username: Scott_n

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 01:53 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
This may be the answer to the ring question. From Tom's interview with Sharon, Betty Lou's friend:

David called me and told me that he was going to ask her to go steady with him. Then he asked me if I thought she would accept. Of course I said yes; she liked him an awful lot. He was going to give her a ring.


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 03:40 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
The report indcates .22 shell casings were found,this we all have known,but what about prints on the casings?Each one has to be inserted even in a clip and the brass will demo prints if checked.
Since none were found this could indicate Z was careful to wipe each casing like the two bank robbers/murderers that were featured on court TV tonight.The casings were checked for prints and none were found.
Or did Z wear gloves when he inserted the.22 bullets.
The same carefulness would be found with BRS casings and the single shell at PH.


J_eric
Username: J_eric

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 12:04 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
David was found with only 85 cents in his pocket, as well as the ring in his hand. Could he have given Z any remaining paper money he had, as would be perhaps expected in a stickup? The night was freezing cold. One might think David would have been a bit chivalrous and offered to buy Betty Lou a cup of hot coffee or something on their way home. Couldn't get much with 0.85, even in those "cheap" days.

Agree with Dave Torzillo, the raccoon hunters come off as totally creepy in the report. The fact that their guns (confiscated later) didn't match ballistics doesn't mean they couldn't have ditched the real murder weapon somewhere in the intervening time.

Thanks for posting this, Tom! As I mentioned to you many months back, it's been a big "missing piece" to this puzzle. Graysmith must have gotten a copy of it early on and at least opened his book with a factual scenario.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 05:02 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
A timeline of events from that night would certainly help to clarify the police report


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 05:26 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Read the first sentence in the last paragraph on page 17. Can someone tell me what that is all about?

On page 5 something else didn't make sense to me either. An expended shell casing is marked as being found 20' from DF's head. The report says BLJ's body is 10' from the rear of the car, however by the comparison of the casing/DF body on page 5, BLJ's body appears to be 30' or so from the rear of the car. Anyone agree?

Lastly, the accounts of the witness couple on pages 16-17 mention Marshall Ranch and Humble Oil Co. Can anyone describe where these locations are in relation to the crime scene? Maps would help greatly.


Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 05:33 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
The report was mistyped. It should have read 10 yards not 10 feet.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 06:21 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
The witness couple mention a guard at Humble Oil Co talking to a man in what she thought was a green sedan. I didn't notice an interview with either of these men in the 60 page report. I believe the wife emntions the men on pg. 17 of the report.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 02:29 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Pages 4-5 of the police report seem to indicate the attack came from the front right of the victims vehicle. In fact, the police theorize on page 4 how the assailant may have parked. Notice how this theory allows him to emerge from his car firing back and to his left, into the victims car.

However, one still has a problem explaining the expended shell casing found 20' from the male victim. From the pattern of shell casings surrounding the male victim one can conclude that at some point the assailant did advance on the victims from the front right of their car.

What is difficult to explain is the shot fired from 20+ feet, which would have been to the right and rear of the assailants car. If this was the initial shot fired, then the assailant likely would have had to quickly move around the right side and then the front of his own car where it is obvious a more rapid firing style took place.




Sean
Username: Sean

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 04:40 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Wrecknball,
With regard to that shot taken from 20 odd feet,the only thing I can think of is that that's where Z parked his car. The first shot fired at distance into the victims car!
I can't see how he arrives in that position any other way,at least none that makes immediate sense.
Similarly,I can only deduce that Z was a pretty good shot given the distance between the remaining shell casings/Betty Lou's body and the close grouping of bullet wounds in Betty lou's back.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 06:15 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Sean, Based upon the other expended cartridges he at some point has to arrive at the front right of the victims car. If he did indeed park his car at a 20+ ft. distance then that means the victims didn't exit their vehicle until he had managed to position himself to the right front of their vehicle.

Apparently their was evidence at the scene that led the police to believe the assailant had parked next to the victims. The only scenario other than Z parking his car at 20' from the victims', would probably have to involve Z firing a shot from that distance while still driving. That scenario leaves the possibility of Z firing the shot while exiting the scene, as well as arriving.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 07:08 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Notice the expended shell casing nearest the fence on page 5. I believe this to be from the 2nd shot fired by Z, assuming the 1st is fired from 20'. Since the passenger window is rolled down, it is possible that Z stood in the area of the 2nd shot barking orders that the two teens couldn't understand, hence the rolled down window. Z then fires the 2nd shot which lodges in the roof of the Rambler.

Now here's where any # of things could have happened. What is known is that DF gets shot behind the left ear at point blank range exiting the vehicle and BLJ is shot 5 times in the back while fleeing.

After firing his initial shot from 20'(I believe this one shattered the back window), the assailant never leaves his post from the right front of the victims' vehicle while executing them.

Perhaps after the 2nd shot is fired, Z has the two teens come out of the car with their backs to him. A "don't look at me" robbery type scenario. The two teens cooperate, however DF is instantly executed. The shot startles BLJ who runs and is shot 5 times while fleeing, or perhaps, she is shot simultaneously to DF but manages to run before she is felled by four more shots.

Can anyone come up with a scenario based on the evidence which doesn't have DF being shot first?


Sean
Username: Sean

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 01:30 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I would think that both were out of the car before Betty ran (as opposed to her exiting first and running).She may have ran after David was shot or she may have even been told to run by Z.
Do we even know she was running? He may have instructed her to walk. Maybe there was some ruse to seperate them before the fatal shots were fired.
I still think David must have been shot first.


Dave Torzillo
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 03:51 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
This still doesn't make sense to me. If Z were on the right side of car shooting, and BLJ running away, why would her body be found with the head facing east and feet facing west?

The shot thru the roof of Rambler in the report is interesting.


Sean
Username: Sean

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 05:09 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
"Running" is still an assumption and the more I think about it the more it makes me wonder. Maybe Z wanted to test his new "pencil flashlight sight".It's not inconsistent with the arrogant S.O.B that he was and his apparent abilty to shoot well.



Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 03:29 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Sean, In the report it mentions a trail of blood leading to BLJ's body so she was shot at least once beside the car.

Dave, Until reading the report and seeing the diagrams I didn't realize how off I was in my interpretation of the crime scene. It would be interesting to see a re-creation of this attack for sure!

What would really be indicative of Z's position during this crime would be the murder weapon and the way it expells shell casings as it is fired.


Bookworm
Username: Bookworm

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 03:51 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I thought it was interesting that Betty Lou's mother's maiden name was Blenderman. They were killed near an oil refinery and a "blender" is a job position. A blender blends the different fuels for whatever the need: planes, cars, race cars,etc. They're not all the same. Allen worked at a refinery at one time according to ZU.

Where did David's wallet come from? On page 3 of the report, it states that the nurse gave it to the "ro", but they didn't say it was in any of David's pockets? Also it is a coincidence that the nurse's address (P2)has the reverse numbers (321)of Betty Lou's address (123).

Does anyone know if David was right or left handed? I couldn't tell from what was in his pockets. Holding the ring with his left hand made me wonder.

I feel that Z stalked the couple, mostly Betty Lou.


Bookworm
Username: Bookworm

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 02:49 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I don't mean to make this sound like a treatise but:

Regarding David's ring:"held by the ring and middle fingers of his left hand."
"The Night of the Hunter" 1955 movie.
Robert Mitchum, posing as a preacher and chasing two children for stolen money, had a tattoo of letters on his fingers, excepting the thumbs. I inserted letters for the thumbs. (right hand)LOVE(G-thumb)(thumb-D)HATE(left hand) A-middle finger T-ring finger
In Victorian times* on Valentine's Day, a "glove" was given to a sweetheart. G could be an initial for God associated with love.
D, associated with the Devil and hate, would finish the word "DEATH" with the rearrangement of "HATE." A and T still in same position.

AT are the initials of Austin, Texas where sniper, Charles Whitman killed from the UT Tower.
Also, thumb letters G=7 and D=4, which is July 4th, the date of the Ferrin/Mageau attack. Darlene Ferrin and David Faraday have the same initials.

I don't know if in 1968 there was a hand symbol for "Longhorns"(Texas) where you curl in the ring and middle fingers leaving the pinky and index symbolizing the "Longhorn Cattle". According to the police report, the red truck in the area had "cattle guards". Another note is that if you take out the "Ta" in Texas, what's left is exs, rearranged is "sex" or "ex's". Could Z have placed the ring where it was (staged it)?

The two children in TNOTH, John and Pearl, resemble David and Betty Lou
http://www.boyacts.com/cgi-bin/actor.cgi?ref=435
http://www.starletsdatabase.com/spages/x_01011VMPN .asp?name=Sally+Jane+Bruce

John and Pearl had a doll. PJ doll (BTK coincidence) There were also BTK coincidences in Mitchum's movie "Cape Fear".

*"In Saxon England and after, on St. Valentine's day it was customary for a boy to give the girl of his choice a love token, usually a pair of gloves. The glove was a sign of authority in olden times."
http://www.learnenglish.de/Temp/February/Valentine sDay.htm
"If you find a glove on the road on Valentine's Day, your future beloved will have the other missing glove." Wasn't a glove found in Paul Stine's cab? He, too, was shot in the head. Also, David had a handkerchief in his pocket. I'm wondering if Z hadn't gone through David's pockets, considering he was wiping the cab with a cloth/shirt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/features/valentines/val entine_facts.shtml




Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 11:48 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
BW,
Just using your post as a stimulus,I refer you to Tom's amazing discovery of the two Valentine type stickers in the Z Halloween Card.See this site.
Whether David was carrying his ring to give it to the perp in response to a possible feigned (or in an attempt to placate the perp!)robbery command or that he was about to give it to Betty when the stranger came up to the wagon is impossible to determine.Though some may affrim the second proposal seems too perfect timing wise.It seems to indicate a very rushed situation with Dave clinging on to that ring.
Remember,this is only ONE section of the police report/s on the LHR case.Witness all the sections-reports on the BRS and LB crimes.

Realizing the debate I still refer you to the 'Z Valentine' note sent 2/14/74.It is signed, "a friend."See archived board in regard to this missive.

Of course,a pair of black size 7 men's gloves were found in the Stine cab.One wonders if these were linked to LB.I can find one reference in a LB police report that Z possibly wore black leather gloves at LB.

A very large portion of the Z case is debatable!If one doesn't believe this then read the archives and this new board!


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 03:59 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Click in search Valentine stickers...


Dave Torzillo
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 04:28 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Howard--What is your take on the shot through the roof of the Rambler?


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 04:45 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Where is Humble Oil in relation to the crime scene?


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 07:14 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
DT,
When the first shot into the right rear window failed to produce the teens Z then, according to Lundblad the perp (this would mean he had evidence of 'foot markings' and possibly 'hand marks' on the chrome roof rails that Rambler wagons had),'had to stand -due to his short stature'(MM said Z was "short"or about 5'8")-on the rear bumper and shoot at the roof of the vehicle.He may have also moved the wagon up/down by placing pressure on the bumper with his legs and body weight.Many of us have done this in play.
A taller person would not have had to stand on the bumper to deliver that shot.I believe forensics of the vehicle was ongoing and not fully covered in the first series of reports.

It shows us,in my view,Z was an extremely impatient person and wanted results quickly that night and was willing to do anything that would produce the intended results-the rapid expulsion of his victims from the vehicle.He also knew the police or a witness could drive by at any moment too.
Did he want them outside in the beginning when he probably spoke to the couple through the open passenger side window?Did they stubbornly refuse to exit the vehicle as he demanded or requested in some manner,thus enraging our psychcopath for some sinister plan or purpose?Did he wish to abduct them?Shoot them while they kneeled?We may never know.
We do know,later,it was for publicity and what better news crime coverage than killing an innocent teen couple in a lover's lane area for NO apparent reason.

Later,after considering his trying LHR methods,he may have thought it best to just walk up to a vehicle with light in hand duplicating an officer,and begin shooting as we find at BRS.


Bookworm
Username: Bookworm

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 08:32 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Howard,
Looking at the Valentine stickers again. It reminds me that the initials of the words of each sticker can be arranged "toy" and "hand". This seems to fit the "Night of the Hunter" movie. A doll is a toy and the words tattoed on RM's hands.

The 408 cipher has some coincidentals too. The cipher speaks of killing humans. 4 is D and 8 is H, the first and last letters of DEATH. In the middle is "EAT"; the 0 looks like a plate. The book "The Night of the Hunter" was written by Davis Grubb. Grub and food and eating go together. Even in the movie at the end, the boy John grasps his stomach.

There is a lot we don't know and may never know, but reading the police reports helps to clear up some things.


Warren_b
Username: Warren_b

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 02:55 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Now I'm mildly cerious - Domingos and Edwards were seniors; I wonder if their killer took one or both (if they had them) of their senior rings? I bet Bill Baker would know.


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:16 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Warren b,
Det.Bill can't say all that he knows on this case or others he has worked or knows about.If he has told me anything there it stays.

I had a great visit with him over the holiday.He is a professional and will keep his own counsel as he sees fit.Of course,that causes one to wonder about various aspects of the Domingos/Edwards case,but this is where dividing lines are drawn.
He has been most generous as to case information on the board.

I am still urging him to become a true crime writer.I think he would surpass Rule and a lot of the others.He CAN write and has a great penchant for detail!


Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:32 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Pg. 1 of the report states a white fur type ladies coat was found on the rear seat of the station wagon. Pg. 2 States that Dean as wearing a light blue long sleeved shirt. Given the temperature, pg.7, 22 degrees, shouldn't Dean have had a coat as well? Also, being as cold as it was perhaps the engine and heater were running when Z pulled in, maybe with his lights off, Catching them by surprise. There is nothing in the report that says the engine was running or not or if it was even warm. There is no mention of whether the car keys were there either. As Benica PD was first on the scene would they have written a report as well?


Dave Torzillo
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 04:49 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Warren-interesting point about the class rings. If adolescent Z started out in Lompoc area, he may have been a disgruntled high school student, upset that no girls would go steady with him! Maybe had penchant for rings, keys, and wallets. Where are our psychologists?--Al Cabal--George--Howie--lol.

My parents had a Rambler in 62-it had fold down seats in front. Great for drive in movies! It was a popular vehicle back then. Also, there was a song out then--Peggy Sue(Betty Lou), with the flipside-Everyday," every day, it's a gettin closer, going faster than a roller coaster". I think young Z was into that fantasy world.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:21 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Did anyone find it funny/odd on page 17 when the report said that the couple denied pointing their gun at the raccoon hunters and saying "My gun is bigger than yours"??? I wonder where that came from!


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:44 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Seagull
Davis had a sportcoat which was on the back seat.Betty's white fur coat was on the back seat behind the driver's seat.
The engine was off,but the ignition was on because the heater had been on.Smart since it was some 22 degrees!
Since the right-front window was down and it was that cold it must have been Betty that rolled it down to accommodate the stranger's attempt to speak to them(?)
The engine was somewhat warm when detectives checked it.Since we know the timeline this fits.
All doors except the right-front were locked.Driver's seat was at a 45 degree angle.The suggestion to all of this-including the coats on the backseat, was that the couple was making out.
This may have inflammed Z even more.

Benicia does have reports too.My niece is married to the son(he is a Benecia police officer too!) of former Sgt.Bidou(he later became Chief and is now a Councilman whose term expires in 2007) who was one of the officers that was first on the scene 12/20/68.FYI


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:49 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I mean David!Oh well,it's a form of the name Davis!


Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:41 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Thanks for the clarification Howard. I must have missed the sportcoat in the report.


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 06:11 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Can someone please read the witness statements of "James A." on pages 13 and 15 and post any discrepancies they notice??? I could just be reading this wrong.


Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:00 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
WB, Pg.13 The Station wagon and other vehicle were ten feet apart. Pg. 15 The station wagon and other vehicle were 3-4 feet apart. Also another vehicle passed him going opposite direction. Also maybe heard a shot. He seemed to remember a lot more in three days time!


Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 01:02 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Yeah Seagull but whats even more interesting is on pg.29 it says the police confiscated 2 guns owned by this man for testing.


Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 04:46 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
WB I saw the guns on pg.29 but what struck me about it was James---- that went racoon hunting with Frank Gasser had a Marlin Rifle. ALA had a Marlin Rifle and the two kids Killed in Jenner were killed with a Marlin Rifle. Gasser on Pg.25 said he had an automatic rifle but it was at a friends house. I couldn't find that it was ever tested in the report but I could have missed it as some of the report is hard for me to read.


Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 06:08 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Sg,
Lundblad,at least at one point of time, thought the weapon used in the LHR attack was a rifle.
Some speculated the weapon used at SB was a rifle.
A.22 rifle was employed at the Seaside Couple slaying in SD.FYI


Mike Cole
Username: Mike_cole

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 07:41 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Howard wrote:

"Lundblad,at least at one point of time, thought the weapon used in the LHR attack was a rifle. Some speculated the weapon used at SB was a rifle."

Presumably, this suggestion is at least partially based on the ammunition which was "Winchester Western Super X copper-coated long rifle" in both instances.

I've often wondered about this point; but I don't have much in the way of firearm knowledge. Can someone with such knowledge comment on any implications that may exist regarding using this type of ammunition with a pistol?

Thanks...


Warren_b
Username: Warren_b

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, January 13, 2006 - 07:40 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Mike, Long Rifle is just a term to distinquish between .22 short, .22 long and .22 long rifle ammunition. All of my .22 pistols are loaded with .22 long rifle. It is a longer case, more powerful charge and will fit the majority of .22 pistols (and rifles). There is even a .22 magnum, which is a wider case, more powerful charge. In order of power:
.22BB, .22CB Short, .22CB Long, .22 Short .22 Long (hardly seen now), .22 Long Rifle (most common), .22 Magnum, .22 Rimjet (very powerful, but doesn't fit most .22s because of tapering.


Deansf
Username: Deansf

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, January 13, 2006 - 12:53 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Whoa there councilor. I would becareful talking about your ownership of .22 firearms as well as your extensive knowledge of all things .22. . .

Remember the .22 in it's many forms has been and still remains the number 1 weapon of choice used in all contract murders throughout the US. . .

As we both know, a .22 round into the skull produces a richocheting projectile that does not leave the target. . .

I pictured you with a Derringer. . . more suited to evenning attire !


Dahlia
Username: Dahlia

Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 01:17 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I'm reading that report again, but just a small aside...

"Fruit boots" I've always thought were simply low-heeled pull-on men's ankle boots (pull-on, ie, zipperless), which of course were common in the 60's-70's. I got curious and did a little research though, and it seems it may've also been a mildly derogatory term--a quote from a gay/lesbian pop culture book seems to indicate this. And that sort of makes sense if we've got a (possibly older) cop describing a teenager's clothing.

Just another fabulous fashion factoid from Dahlia...





George
Username: George

Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 02:34 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Who "partially covered" BLJ's expired body with "a wool gray blanket?" (Page One, Solano Co Sheriff's Dept report.) I think it unlikely that the Zodiac placed the blanket but a couple of things slightly bother me.

A police officer or rescue personnel probably partially covered her with the blanket, as this scenario seems logical. Additionally, we have, "On arrival at the above location RO's observed several Benecia police units." (Page One, first sentence of report.) As Betty Lou was DOS, I guess that a cop decided to cover her.

Seagull, I also found no reference to Faraday wearing a sports coat. Perhaps that information came from CADOJ or the FBI? I'd love to see it in writing, because it raises a big question: from the above report, Faraday was wearing, "a white cotton T-shirt and a light blue, size 20, boys long sleeve shirt." (Page Eight.) It's twenty-two degrees and he has no heavy coat?

As a "fur type ladies' coat laying on the left side of the rear seat of the station wagon," (Page Two) was reported, I agree with Howard that the couple were intending to or were making out. This view is shared by the cops as indicated by the words "interrupted necking" (Page Six) under the "victims activity at the time of offense." It seems logical to me that the car's motor was still running, to allow the interior of the car to remain warm. The Zodiac may have ordered that they turn off the engine, the engine may have stalled on its own, or just maybe the Zodiac turned off the engine after he finished firing and then left the scene. (The archives have much speculation similar to this paragraph but we have many new posters.)

Flaws in the report are sidetracking me. The blanket on Betty Lou and who put it there is what interests me. I think it unlikely that Z placed the blanket on BLJ but the question as to who did isn't a frivolous one.

1. If someone with LE or Rescue placed the gray blanket on BLJ, why was she only "partially covered?" I think that LE or rescue would have covered her entirely. Wouldn't entirely covering the deceased be SOP?

2. Can it be determined if Solano Co. LE or rescue, particularly LE, carried gray, wool blankets in 1968?

3. (Page Seven.) "Lt. Little photographed the crime scene." Are there any known crime scene photos in which Betty Lou is "partially covered with a wool gray blanket?" A police lieutenant would know to photograph a crime scene without moving or touching anything -- at least at first.

4. The blanket may have been removed for further photographs but again, why would the blanket, after Lt. Little had finished, be placed back without fully covering Betty Lou?

5. "RO's contacted...a reporter from the Fairfield Daily Republic, Thomas D. Balmer." (Page One.)
Why Fairfield? Fairfield looks to be twenty or twenty-five miles from the crime scene. Why not contact a reporter from Benecia?

6. It's possible that Faraday only wore the undershirt and light blue shirt noted above but logically, where is the heavier coat he must have worn on such a cold night? Sure they were planning to neck but removing one heavy coat in order to do so is hardly a major hurdle and seems an unlikely reason to not wear one.

That's a lot for one blanket but it still makes no sense to me why BLJ was reported as being partially covered with a wool gray blanket at the crime scene.


George
Username: George

Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 03:21 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
That went well. Okay, how about this? I'll go on record as the only one who is a little suspicious about the above wool gray blanket. End of subject.

As the report has David Faraday not wearing or in possession of a heavy coat, and dressed as though the attack took place in August -- a sort of anti-Mageau mojo -- I guess I've missed something. If someone could link me to anything official which mentions Faraday and a heavy coat, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.


Douglas Oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:00 am:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
George, I've got a photo of Betty Lou's body covered with what looks like a gray blanket. I think it came from this site.



Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 04:12 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
George saw your post. I've been busy. I'll be looking into the coat thing too. Hang in there Dude!



George
Username: George

Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 04:29 pm:

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Doug, thanks. I just found the photo. I'd seen it before and forgotten about it. The word "partially" in the police report threw me a bit. Judging from the photo, the blanket is laid out as I'd expect it to be.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 6:55 pm:   

Here's a link to the latest discussion of the police report.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration