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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:13 am:   

This question has been buggin me for along time. Why was he wearing (3)pairs of pants, (1)Tee shirt, (3)sweaters and (1)long sleeve shirt on a warm July 4th? Furthermore, the Police only make a note of it, and as far as i know they never asked him why.
The only reasons i can think of are:

1. He played a game of tackle football earlier and that he used the clothes for padding and just never took them off before Dee picked him up.

2. Dee called him and told him someone was bothering or following her and again used the clothes for padding incase he got in an ultercation.

3. Mike was going to rip off another store or place of business in which he could change his clothes incase he was spotted by someone. Dee was going to be the driver and lookout person, thus they stopped at the park to talk about how they were going to pull it off.

4. Mike was suffering chills from some 48hr flu bug.

Can any of you think of another reason?

Tom, if you feel this thread serves no purpose then 86 it, i won't be offended. I can't help it, this question has been buggin me for a long time, and i was hoping for some other ideas or points of agreement.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:25 am:   

Very thin, angular people tend to throw off a lot of body heat because a greater percentage of their body mass is represented by surface area. Mageau might simply have been trying to stay warm, despite the fact that it was a summer's night. Summer nights in the Bay area can be fairly chilly, too. I found that out when I went there in August and was forced to go out and buy a light jacket to keep the chill off in the evening.
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Dave
Username: Dave

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 12:39 pm:   

Hawk,

Mike was apparently very insecure about his appearence and would often wear multiple layers to appear more bulky than he actually was. See Michael Kelleher's book "This Is The Zodiac Speaking" page 33, first full paragraph.

Dave
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:11 am:   

Doug & Dave thanx for your responses.

Doug, I can understand people being colder than others, but why didn't he do as you did, put on a coat or light jacket relative to wearing the uncomfortable ensemble he wore? He's dressed as if he were going sled riding. Do you agree?

Dave, I'm sorry i don't have Kellehers book. Did he actually interview Mageau to get that explaination?
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Dave
Username: Dave

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:31 am:   

Hawk,

Not sure if Mike was ever interviewed. Seems to me more like the police asked why he had the multiple layers on. His clothing would have had to presumably been cut off as he was being prepared for surgery.

Dave
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:40 am:   

Hawk, I'm 5'10" and weighed about 190 at the time. Of course, keeping off the chill might not have been the reason Mageau wore so many clothes--however, given his body build, he probably wouldn't have been as uncomfortable as the average person would be inclined to think.
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Warren
Username: Warren

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 10:33 am:   

It's funny... I see street people here in tropical Houston, in July, with multiple layers of clothing on. They genuinely appear cold. I wonder if it's an effect of drug usage or alcoholism (certainly not even remotely implying that Mageau was).

I think Mageau was trying to bulk up and possibly be ready in case he was faced with someone jealous...much like my cat doubles in size when faced with potential danger.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   

I lived right on Mare Island Strait and it was cold year round, even in July. I always had to wear a jacket or coat.

Maybe MM was poor, and had to wear extra hand-me-down clothing to keep warm, in lieu of purchasing a $150. leather coat!
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:58 am:   

Warren,
The street people you seen in Houston or anywhere when it's summer and hot out who are wearing mulitiple layers of winter-type clothing are suffering from schizophrenia. The nerological disorder causes them to be out of touch with their bodies unless on medication.

Hawk,
5. A person suffering from schitzophrenia and off his meds would be another reason for someone wearing mulitiple layers of clothing.

6. Anorexia Nervosa is another mental disease who many who are afflicted with can't seem to sray warm and are often seen wearing what seems to be excessive clothing.

I have never heard that Mageau was suffering from any disorder that could be attributed to a mental imbalance but I'm just throwing these into the conversation.
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 10:42 am:   

Dave, it's not in the police report on this site that they asked Mike why he had on so many clothes, thats why i wonder where Kelleher got his information.

Doug,
I'm 6'1" 210Lbs, i'm not over weight i'm just a big country hillbilly and i seem to get as cold as everyone else. When its cold out i wear a pair of long underwear underneath my jeans, but three pairs of pants? I don't know what the temp was that night, but the averge temp for that area is 62 degrees on the 4th of july since 1970.

V Dave,
It does get colder when your close to water like a river, ocean etc.. but the crime seen is at a higher elevation than the ocean. Again, You and Doug chose to do the simple thing and get a jacket other than layers of clothes.
Mike's dad spent the night in a HOTEL, If he could afford to do that, then he could afford to buy Mike a jacket i would think. Btw, I don't think the average leather jacket cost $150 back in 1969.
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J_eric
Username: J_eric

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 11:44 pm:   

OK, sleuths, how about this scenario: Mike THOUGHT they were going someplace near the water (fireworks show on Mare Island?) so he dressed warmly for it. But Darlene said they had to do or get something first. Maybe something Mike would rather not bring up with the cops after the crime...so he just sort of let the clothing thing slide.

A better question might be: If she didn't know it beforehand, Darlene would have been sure to note that Mike had a few too many pair of trousers on. HE might act all "bulked up" but wouldn't SHE think she was out on the town with the biggest dweeb in Vallejo? This mode of dress pretty much rules out any thought that the kids planned to have sex. ("OK, dear, get out of your trousers...and those trousers...and those, too!" - not real romantic in my mind.)
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Brian_d
Username: Brian_d

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 3:05 am:   

I think it's revealing that Mike wore three sets of pants and three shirts. Why not one pairs of pants and two shirts? Or thermal underwear that is more efficient and warmer still since its form fitting not allowing body heat to escape. Or better yet why not just turn the cars heater on? Unless he and Darlene were planning to spend all their time together outside in the chill air, it is reasonable that they would be spending their time in heated places (car, restaurant, friends home etc.).
By the time Darlene picked Mike up most of the public fireworks displays would be over with long before midnight.
What were those three kids doing in such an isolated spot as Blue Rock Springs at midnight?
(Drug connection?)
Exactly three sets of pants and three shirts?
(Planning a robbery and doffing clothes to disguise against potential witnesses?)
Brother Leo admitting years later, for fear of a marijuana contretemps, that he himself placed those hang-up phone calls received by Dean.
(If not true, why impugn his sisters memory?)
Is it reasonable to assume Mike and Darlene were there for more nefarious reasons than later reported?
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 12:29 pm:   

After further thought, I'm kinda satisfied with Mike Kellehers explaination even though it is kind of bazaar.
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James78
Username: James78

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 8:58 pm:   

The yellow book has the explanation that he was trying to look bulky, I think it said he was uncomfortable with his build. Basically he was a whimp. Nothing against Mike. He took those bullets and survived,not to whimpy!
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 9:54 am:   

What is strange is that it's late at night (dark out), So who's he trying to impress?

What it implies is that Mageau was anticipating he might have a run in with a couple of punks at the intended diner. I think if I was a Whimp, I would just as soon take an ass whoopin than be hot and miserable in all those clothes on a steamy july 4th.
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L2829tad
Username: L2829tad

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 12:45 pm:   

Hawk, So why not avoid the scene altogether?...thardu......
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 1:40 pm:   

thardu, He wanted to impress Darlene, and perhaps protect her is why he went. I was told many yrs ago, that they went there to meet up with a guy named Randy Young. They didn't show up when they were supposed to so Randy left. I haven't found Randy Young yet, to check that story out.I wrote the temperature down from the VTH July 4th 69 date, it was very warm even late at night that night. Maybe Randy was going to be a back up for Mike.
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 3:37 pm:   

Sandy, so your saying Mike was planning on getting in a fight?
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 9:10 pm:   

It's been pointed out that burglars wear multiple layers of clothing which they shed as they escape the scene of the crime. That way, cops wouldn't give them a second look since they're wearing different clothing than what was described by eyewitnesses. If you're planning on getting into a fight, you bring a knife or a gun, you don't wear extra clothes... so, draw your own conclusions...
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 9:57 pm:   

One thing can be safely speculated: they didn't go out there to have sex--not with her wearing a jumpsuit and him wearing all those clothes. I like the idea of some kind of drug deal--nothing sinister, maybe just some grass. Weren't they supposed to have been having a July 4th party at the Ferrins' house, with Dean Ferrin stopping to buy liquor before coming home?
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 7:48 am:   

I'm with Ed on this one. I could see Mike beefin up his upper body with multiple shirts but THREE pairs of pants is beyond wierd unless like Ed said, he was planning on rippin off a store or something. I can just see him sittin in that car with sweat drippin off of him. LOL
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 8:06 am:   

I still say that tall, skinny people don't feel heat to the same degree that normal-sized or heavy people do. They've got so much surface area in relation to their body mass that they throw off lots more heat and hence tend to get colder even under circumstances where the average person would feel stifled. That's why those skinny people we all know can eat so much and not gain weight.
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 9:39 am:   

Doug, you may be right about that but it really doesn't explain the three pairs of pants. Think about it like this, Mike chose to put on those clothes well before he got in Dees car which I'm pretty sure it had a heater in it.

On the other hand, if Mike was suffering from chills do to a fever, then that would be a whole different thing. But then again I would think that if his chills were bad enough to put on three pairs of pants, then he wouldn't feel much like going out even to score a bag of weed.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 9:51 am:   

They still could've had sex at BRS. Maybe they used plan B?
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Hawk
Username: Hawk

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 3:14 pm:   

V dave, I could just picture a girl lookin at me like a deer in the headlights while I'm trying to peel down three pairs of britches in a cramped compact car.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 3:49 pm:   

It would sort of kill the ambiance.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Monday, December 25, 2006 - 1:53 am:   

And having a sudden urge to use the bathroom would make him wonder why he bothered with the 2 extra pairs of pants...
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Monday, December 25, 2006 - 2:26 pm:   

Do they have longjohns in California? Not the donut thingies, the thermal underwear. It would seem a more practical way to keep warm.

Wimps afraid of a confrontation usually:

a: Stay home and/or out of sight.
b: Hang around bigger and/or braver friends.
c: Arm themselves: gun, knife, brass knuckles, large rings, mace, etc.

If they were going to do a stick-up, wouldn't there likely have been a weapon at the scene?

Whether his immoderate apparel is related to the events that transpired, or just a mere coincidence, it was very odd, indeed.

As far as a drug deal (a likely scenario) how much money did Ferrin and Mageau have on them or in the vehicle?
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Stew
Username: Stew

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 1:57 pm:   

According to the Police report, Mike Mageau was wearing three sets of trousers, a T-shirt and three sweaters. If he was planning a burglary, why would he need 3 pairs of trousers and four sets of shirt/sweaters? You would imagine in the case of a burglary, you would have your scene of the crime clothes (ideally black you'd think) and your get-away clothes. You don't need to change again.

If the Police report had described the clothes, it may have cancelled this supposition (ie if he was wearing three sets of blue denim jeans it wouldn't have been much use in disguising your identity).

Also, Mike left his residence with lights on, the TV on and the front door wide open. It seems he may not have been expecting to go for a car ride with Darlene.

It seems more likely that he was caught by surprise and was wearing what he had on at the time of Darlene's arrival. Despite it being the middle of summer, weather.com gives the average maximum temp on July 4th for Vallejo as 87 deg and the minimum (around dawn I suppose) as 54 deg. I expect most 19 year olds were out that night to see fireworks after dusk (after 8:35pm) by which time the temp. could have been down in the sixties.
It seems plausible that he had buffed up his clothing that night to go out with friends knowing he could peel off sweaters if it was too hot (and aiming to look physically more solid). Since this was what he claimed, it seems reasonable he was telling the truth.

Judging by the haste and state he left his residence, Darlene probably found him in the clothes he was wearing at the time. Why leave your home with door wide open, light and TV on, if you are planning a robbery or drug deal at a remote location?
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Stew
Username: Stew

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 2:00 pm:   

Sorry for the error, Mike was wearing a long sleeve shirt as well.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   

Good analysis, Stew. Personally, I think he and Darlene were trying to score some drugs for the party. Dean and his friends picked up the liquor, and Darlene was going for the other stuff. Probably nothing more harmful than some cannabis.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:50 pm:   

Maybe Mageau had planned a robbery later that night but Darlene showed up, so he postponed things until he returned home (of course, Z cancelled any plans he may have had).
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 9:39 pm:   

I think the possibility is good they got together for a drug score. Like Doug said, probably pot. This would still hold to the "bulking up" theory. He probably wasn't anticipating a fight, but wanted to look bigger, just in case. I doubt Mageau was considering a make-out session Mel Brooks style.

I have trouble buying the robbery theory. No weapons at the scene. Why would he need more than one change of clothes for a getaway? How fast could one run in 2 or 3 pairs of pants? Then again, who knows. He seems to be a strange guy.

Does anyone have any idea or clue as to how much money Ferrin or Mageau had on them or in the car? Did the cops overlook that telling detail?
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Kevin
Username: Kevin

Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 1:01 am:   

I think this is not too complicated. He was rather skinny and he felt a little self conscious about it so he wore extra cloths in an attempt to bulk himself up. Think of the Charles Atlas ad, he could have been who they based it on.
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J_eric
Username: J_eric

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 10:49 pm:   

Yarbchris, I think Mike and Darlene had only pocket change on them. Tom or Ed may know more, but I recall learning that it wasn't even enough to buy a pack of firecrackers, let alone drugs. Hence it was more likely that, if drugs or contraband were to be part of the evening, that they would receive it "on consignment" from a trusted source, or maybe after paying a third party in advance earlier in the evening, elsewhere.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 11:41 pm:   

It wouldn't surprise me if the people who found Mageau lying on the pavement were the ones from whom he expected to receive the consignment.
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 11:21 am:   

Weather on Friday July 4, 1969

Hamilton AFB (Novato)
Low 51.1F, Avg 65.9F, High 89.1F
Avg Wind Speed 4.83mph, Max Sustained 13mph

Buchanan Field (Concord)
Low 63.0F, Avg 81.2F, High 93.9F
Avg Wind Speed 9.21MPH, Max Sustained 18.10MPH
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Patrick_ryan
Username: Patrick_ryan

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 10:32 am:   

This might sound strange to most, I had a buddy who was dating this girl in high school, she had a ex boyfriend who wasnt the nicest of guys. My buddy at the time would say this ex boyfriend of hers threatend to shoot any guy she would date, well one day I go to his house and he is getting ready to go to the movies with his "new girl friend" he was dressing exactly like Mageau.

I asked him, why he would be wearing so many clothes, as it wasnt that cold out. He responded with, "in case that crazy sob shows up, and either tries to shoot or stab me, these clothes might slow it down"...Maybe Mageau had the same idea? Just food for thought...
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 6:21 pm:   

Patrick ryan, I have always felt that was why Mike wore those clothes that night. I was also told that a Randy Young was to meet up with them that night at BRS,but they were too late so he left. I would like to find Sue Ayers,she spoke to Mike at the hospital.What she claimed he told her is different than what he told the police. I found a Sue Ayers who married a Hernandez, she shot herself at a school in Pittsburg Ca. She would have been in her late teens in 69. I am still looking for any other Sue Ayers.
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Warren
Username: Warren

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:46 am:   

Sandy, about 35 are listed in California under the name Sue Ayers or Susan Ayers on Zabasearch.com. Of course, her name could be different now.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:49 am:   

Patrick--you and your friend's idea makes sense to me as well.
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   

I'm already in contact with Sue and her family and will post details soon. Looks like she'll be at the task-force meeting.
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:17 pm:   

That is great Tom ! I heard or read that she went to work for VTH ?

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