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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 2:39 pm:   

I have been thinking about Darlene and MM all day today. They were attacked late on the 4th of July, 1969, after a day which everyone celebrates and gathers with friends and relatives for picnics and reunions, throughout the country. As a memorial to the memory of Dee and MM, I post the following pic of a Boat
Parade in Mare Island Channel. The pic was taken on the 4th of July 1970. Dee's sister was in the parade in 1969.

mareislandboats002

C:\mysettings\mydocuments\mareisland.jpg
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J_eric
Username: J_eric

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:15 am:   

Strange you should mention this, Vallejo_Dave, as I too was thinking about Blue Rock Springs throughout the weekend. Does that make us "obsessed"? Thanks for the photo. On the East Coast, we would have called it a Regatta.
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Warren
Username: Warren

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 7:51 am:   

Z might have been there reminiscing...
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Patrick_t
Username: Patrick_t

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 8:50 am:   

Thank Dave,

Do you think that Z thought about the 4th of July before attacking? I ask the question because he surely knew that it was a holiday and a lot of people would be out there, increasing the chance to be seen by eyewitnesses.

It was risky, but he did it anyway. That bring in my mind the dates patern again. After all, maybe Z killed with a date patern that meant something to him.
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George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:09 am:   

Nice photo, Dave.

Patrick, I think he premeditated the Independence Day attack, taking the risk because he knew there would likely be more people out at night, as well as to compound the Ferrin and Mageau families pain each year when the holiday again rolled around. Same with December 20, 1968.

Or the Zodiac may have thought himself a genius for attacking on July 4, 1969, in that his gunshots may have been mistaken for firecrackers and no other reason at all. I sometimes question how bright this guy allegedly was.

R.I.P. Darlene. I hope Mike's comfortable, too.
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Patrick_t
Username: Patrick_t

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:32 am:   

George,

Thanks for your input, of course Z premeditated that crime because he took the time to create, cut, sew a costume and think about his image. You are also correct on 1 thing, we don't know how wise the man was. Did he killed on special days, or just following his feeling....

What else we have on the killing dates? I don't see a link between them, maybe it was representing something else for him.....I remember reading something about the equinoxe, and maybe time 17, but I haven't made my mind yet.


If I was the man, I would choose a day when most of the people is away, sleeping, or whatever. But not the national independance day! This being said, we can see how Corea shot their missiles on July the 4th in order to pinpoint his ennemy, sorry that's another topic but it's just to show that it could have meant something else. Same as December 20, but what it mean, I don't know. All IMO. thanks
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:29 pm:   

I don't have much of an opinion on why the dates of the attacks, other than a general holiday, weekend one. Christmas, July 4th, Labor Day, and Halloween. Perhaps Z had bad experiences in his past family life that made him act out around holidays, when others were having fun and good inter-personal relations.
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George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 2:24 pm:   

The Zodiac didn't wear a hood or carry a bayonet on his person on the 7/4/69 Independence Day, BRS attack, Patrick, but Lake Berryessa eleven weeks later appears more premeditated, yes.

I'd also expect Z to choose a more quiet night than 7/4/69 to attack, but after reading the Benecia PD report about LHR it's clear that much surrounding activity was afoot that cold night as well.
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George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 2:34 pm:   

Premeditation as to dates when he attacked. The two Vallejo crimes near and on major holidays begin a strong pattern. But LB and Stine don't quite maintain it. Many good theories, though.

Tom's recently added photo of Darlene to the home page is heartbreaking.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 4:38 pm:   

George, I agree, that photo is heartbreaking.

Warren, I was there reminiscing. My apartment was about 2 blocks away. I could walk out and go fishing in the channel. Little did I know at that time that the Napa River was polluted in the strait area! Ugh--I ate some of the fish.
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Patrick_t
Username: Patrick_t

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 5:15 am:   

Thanks George, I mixed the dates,

I agree the patern is hard to find and many theories have been made. Actually everything is possible because the patern coujld be personal. But I think you're right, specially if we consider the hunters saying that they saw Z driving around previous to the crime, as if he had to commit something that night. And didn't the same occured at Lake Berryessa? The dentist and his son who saw Z in the afternoon, walking in the same area, prior to the crime.

Very nice picture of Darlene, thanks again Tom, you keep the story alive!
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 6:27 pm:   

George, For some reason I thought Stine was shot on Columbus Day ? Alister Crowley's Birthday is the 12th of Oct.which would tie into the occult theory. Sept 27th would be between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.The only Jewish suspect that I know of is Kane,who is also part English from his mothers side.
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George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 11:48 pm:   

I remember archived posts regarding this subject. In Vallejo, 12-20-1968 is very near the major holiday of Christmas and BRS was on the very day of the major holiday of Independence Day. Personally I view Columbus Day as awfully minor in comparison. On the other hand, if the Zodiac was of the Jewish faith, then the LB attack falling between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur could be of huge importance; could be as important as Christmas or July Fourth. (I should add that I know almost nothing about any religious denomination and observations and celebrations therein.)

The theory of Zodiac holiday attacks isn't a bad one. Like so much else in the crime series, good arguments are made both ways.

I place little store in occult theories in the Zodiac crimes but that's JMO -- historically, there are simply too many events involving witchcraft, mystics, violent sects and the rest of it which can probably match any event, Zodiac or otherwise, using Google and a little imagination.
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 6:52 pm:   

Can anyone name a day that isn't close to some holiday or anniversary?
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:13 pm:   

Yarb, my birthday is August 2nd. As far as I can tell, it is about as far away from any recognized holiday as any date on the calendar. Sure... Friendship Day happens to be on August 2nd but who the hell even knows about Friendship Day?

The question is, what (if any) holidays were relevant to Z? Faraday & Jensen were killed very near the winter solstice. Ferrin & Mageau were killed on Independence Day. Z recognized the holidays of Halloween and Christmass in his letters.

I do believe that holidays and anniversaries were recognized by Z but your point is a valid one, IMO.
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 9:14 pm:   

Lunasa - 1st full moon in August
August 1 - Lughnasadh
August 2 - Lammas
August 3 - Satanic Revels

My point is the days that Zodiac attacked are close to certain holidays, but as far as the attacks are concerned, no obvious pattern or definitive schedule appears to exist.

Sure, the attacks happened on or near significant dates. This world has been spinning long enough for that to be said about nearly any day.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 9:47 pm:   

My point has always been that Z is a product of his environment, Yarbchris. Z's environment was the San Francisco bay area in the late 1960s. What was important to him at the time? What was the cultural mood (i.e. the "Zeitgeist") of the time for someone growing up in Vallejo or Oakland or San Francisco during the 1966-1969 period?

Did Z give a damn about Friendship Day? Probably not. Independence Day and the Winter Solstice? Don't know. The world keeps spinning but it was at a certain location when Z was doing his business and I have to question whether he was aware of that location at the time he decided to kill. Z seemed to be aware of his place in the solar system when he mailed this diagram of his activities:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/BombLetter6.html
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 10:26 pm:   

So far, there seems to be little connection with the dates, other than convenience and opportunity. All theories pointing to a planned calendar event have been rather vague and off the mark. If someone can establish a consistent pattern among the dates of the definite Zodiac attacks I, for one, would very much like to see it.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 2:19 am:   

Yarb, you're right. I'm thinking mostly in terms of the letters, which SEEM to indicate an acute awareness of time.

If we include Cheri Jo Bates as a Z victim (or even as a claimed victim), Z sent letters 6 months to the day after her murder, then a Halloween card near the 4 year anniversary. The letter to Belli was mailed one year to the date after Lake Herman Rd and, most fascinating to me, seems to be "recording" his murders according to the solar calendar in the BusBomb letter diagram above. No grand plan perhaps but I do still think he was acutely aware of dates.

I had never heard of Lammas, by the way, but I will definitely spend my birthday this year honoring the Grain God! Sorry for getting the thread off on a tangent...
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 8:53 am:   

Wasn't Paul Stine shot on Columbus Day weekend ? The 12th was Alister Crowley's B.D. This yr both will be on the 12th. The eight days of Hanukkah seem to change yr to yr, I wonder if Dec 20th of 68 and 69, could have been during that time ? I have had a strong feeling that when Z wrote Happy Christmass (sic), he started to write Happy Hanukkah, but for what ever reason changed his mind. The 21st of Sept. is the beginning of Yom Kipper ( at sun down) I don't know if it ended at sun down on the 27th. Rosh Hashana is in Sept, it also changes days and starts at "sun down", it was on the 23rd this past yr and will be on the 12th of Sept this yr. The 28th of Sept is Native American Day. I believe holidays, birthdays, the moon, and anniversary's, are important to the Zodiac. I also believe he wrote or sent at least one letter on his birthday. I am not writing this because Kane is Jewish/English, and has used birthdays of April 24,28th and 29th. That could just be one of those odd coincidences.

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