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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 3:59 pm:   

Here's a link to another sketch from the SFPD artist of Zodiac in costume.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 4:27 pm:   

So he tucked his pants legs into ankle high boots. That's kind of intersting. Was he trying to look military-like? If so why not wear full above the ankle combat-type boots instead of half boots?
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 5:54 pm:   

Some observations: black gloves, paper sack hood, pleated trousers, dark hair showing, big stomach. We need to find this sketch artist Juan. ----I think Z had his trousers bloused above his boots with the standard military issue blousers. You could buy these at any PX or Military surplus store.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 7:24 pm:   

Why, on a comparatively nice day, is he wearing all those clothes, and making them look "blousy?"
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:19 pm:   

I wouldn't read too much into this. As far as I know, the SFPD sketch artist was working strictly from the police reports and didn't actually interview Shepard, Hartnell or anyone else.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:24 pm:   

Unless it was eventually shown to Hartnell and he agreed with it's depiction.
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:28 pm:   

I kind of doubt that happened, unless it was way after the attack. Jurisdictions were very focused on not stepping on the toes of fellow law enforcement agencies. Politically, SFPD would have needed to go through Napa and there's no record that ever happened. But who knows.
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Jim_t
Username: Jim_t

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 12:08 am:   

Does the sketch say "open fly"?
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 5:45 pm:   

"because he is afraid of bugs in the tall grass", lol--Z must have been a real Pansy!

Jim, I think that says "open flap", referring to the holster. Incongruously, that appears to be a knife with a hilt the sketch is drawing out of his right side, instead of a pistol.
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J_eric
Username: J_eric

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:58 am:   

Couldn't it be possible that Zodiac made two or more hoods? One, out of a paper sack, maybe a trial version or a prototype. He finds that doesn't suit his needs (too smelly from the black ink, crinkles too much as he walks, makes him sweat, etc.) so he makes a quality hood out of cloth. The paper sack he tosses in Sandy's car and, yes, I do remember Sandy saying it was on a September day, not October. Well, it would explain the two different descriptions of the hood anyway.
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Oklahoma_mike
Username: Oklahoma_mike

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 11:31 pm:   

The idea that Z made a pattern for the hood out of paper before sewing one out of cloth seems a reasonable possibility to me.
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Sean
Username: Sean

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 7:44 am:   

I hadn't realized before that Hartnell actually stood up. It would give a little more creedence to his heigt estimate of Z (despite him claiming that he wasn't that great a judge) would it not!
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J_eric
Username: J_eric

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 12:15 am:   

I think Hartnell would have to stand up to give Zodiac his car keys as demanded. It's hard to get them out of your pocket when your lying down & even harder if you're not wearing pants (there was the police notation that Bryan and Cecilia were "cozy" - whatever that means). I don't think Bryan threw the keys at Zodiac; so the two had to be within arm's reach.
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George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 11:53 pm:   

Back to the hood. If it really was Z, why would he leave any trace of a hood behind him in public in the first place? For 1969, Z was fairly evidence-conscious and I can't envision his being so stupid as to do such a thing, even with a "practice" hood.
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Breakout
Username: Breakout

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 7:15 am:   

How publicized (between 9-27-69 and 10-31-69) was the fact that the Bryan and Cecilia were attacked by a hood-wearing Zodiac? Was it grandly distributed in the local papers and beyond? Or was the attack covered sans that info? If the hood was publicized I see plenty of reason for a prankster to use a replica as a gag or scare tactic. I am sure that "helter skelter" has been scrawled in some pinpointed places for the same effect.
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 11:02 am:   

George / Breakout, The Napa Register which was the paper most of us read in Napa, had that the perp wore a hood. It didn't show a picture, nor did it say it was sq.so whom ever put it in my car had to know somehow just what it did look like .A name tag of Dan Perez was also left behind. Perhaps it was left to frame Perez or my husband ? My car was metallic brown ( dark rootbeer color),that would fit in with the brown car the VPD was looking for from the July 4th phone booth discription.With as much stuff that was put into my car ,I would think the guy was on drugs or drunk and thought it was his car.That wouldn't account for the stolen clothes line from weeks before."If" in fact that was the same person. If it was the same person, then I would have to say it was a set up.A cotton hood would not stand stiffly on the perps shoulders,without having a lot of starch, as reported.In most of the reports it is told that the logo is on the hood. As we all know it is on the chest area of the costume,yet the person who put the costume in my car had the logo in the correct spot as well as the right size 3x3. The wrinkels on the hood left in my car ,was probably done by the person wadding it up after he took it off. If he didn't want to be seen with it in his car, all he had to do is turn it inside out and wadd it up in a ball. I have no idea why he didn't just toss it, unless he had a plan to make it look like my husband was the zodiac. The knife used must have ment alot to the killer, because that would have been what I would have left in the car along with the costume. My husband at the time was a handsome very cocky bartender at the Coronado Inn in Vallejo,not many men liked him,girls did however.If it was the Z and I do believe it was who put this in my car,what would it take for us to take a look at the names I have as suspects, or to ID the man in the picture who I was told is Kane ? We need more proof that the picture is in fact Kane, and not R.Hernandez. Harvey Hines has that same man as Kane, the VPD said it is Kane,but the man who I had followed outside of my job Jan 16th 88, who has the same scars in the same places with a "shaved head" ( at that time) drove a car that belonged to R Hernandez.I can't do this alone,I need his picture out there so I can make sure who he really is.Then I will prove with DNA he is the killer and the writer of the Z notes.
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Davidmm
Username: Davidmm

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 2:04 pm:   

Did you notice, Sandy, that Zodiac makes a reference to using black shoe polish on paper?

On page four of his Nov 9th, 1969, letter, he mentions painting a cardboard tube black with shoe polish.

Has that been noticed before?
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 3:19 pm:   

I also found that interesting. I have been familiar with Sandy's story for quite some time. Despite comments to the contrary, I see no reason to rule Sandy's story as unrelated to the Zodiac. At the very least, the bag found may have been a template for a sewn hood.

Staying on topic with the sketch, I believe the pants being cinched at the cuffs indicates these were probably over-clothes to be removed after the attacks.
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:38 am:   

Yarbchris, True using a paper sack would make a pretty good pattern,but you wouldn't need to paint it black with shoe polish or ink to do that.I noticed that when I made a copy of the costume I had in 69 to take to the Blue Rock Springs task force meeting we had.I used ink instead of shoe polish, it stunk for about a day.I wonder just how long the smell would last if it were shoe polish ? The day I found it ,it was a very warm day, the window was down on my car, yet I could smell it as I drove home. I think it would be interesting to see on some warm days just how long that smell would last using shoe polish. Davidmm, Yes I did read it when I recieved the hard cover book as a gift in 87. That was when I first realized that what was found in my car in 69, had to be the Lake B costume. Long gone by 87,unless it is buried some place in a box that I haven't found yet. The hood part was thrown out that day, but I did hang on to the Black cotton poncho with the white circle cross, that I thought was a Japanese or Chinese sign of some sort. I could use it to sew something for later. There was enough to make a skirt for Halloween, I told my friend who also saw it that day in my car. It was dirty looking, I am not sure if I washed it right away or not, nothing on it looked red like blood, but then on black I believe it would look brown like dirt. Who knows part of that bad smell could have been blood.
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Davidmm
Username: Davidmm

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 11:21 am:   

Sandy, I'm sure you've been asked this a thousand times before, but, any chance that the poncho still exists? Did you cut it up?

Since Z thought his victims were dead, he wouldn't have thought these would be linked to his LB attack.

You've stated elsewhere that some of the items had dark spots on them that looked like blood. Have you ever had them checked in a lab to see if it really is blood or perhaps shoe polish?
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   

There's a designated thread for Sandy questions in the "other suspects" area...

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