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Ubpclaw
Username: Ubpclaw

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 12:48 pm:   

I was reading the movies website and there was a report about the Stine killing. It mentioned that Stines black horn rimmed glasses were also missing along with the keys and wallet. Did Zodiac take Stines glasses and put them on, and thats part of the disguise Z was talking about when referring to the composite sketch?

Tom, do you know about this, or is it more of yellow books BS?
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Davidmm
Username: Davidmm

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   

Humm. That would explain why everyone thinks Stein's drivers license looks like the Zodiac composite.

I know that the Fouke memo described Z as wearing an elastic band that held on his glasses. Did anyone check to see if Stein also used one on his glasses?
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 1:20 pm:   

Luke from the chat room came up with that theory some time ago. I haven't yet found out if the glasses were indeed missing.
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Davidmm
Username: Davidmm

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   

Did anyone ever ask Stein's widow if Paul's glasses had an elastic strap on them?

Wasn't she contacted in recent time?
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:14 pm:   

I don't see anything about an elastic band mentioned in the Fouke report.
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Davidmm
Username: Davidmm

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:26 pm:   

"Elastic cuffs", not glasses-strap, is mentioned in the Fouke report. Duh. I could have sworn I read it there. Should have checked before posting!

Thanks for the save, Tom!
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:35 pm:   

I think it was Kathleen Johns who mentioned the glasses w/elastic band.
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Tommyt
Username: Tommyt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:40 pm:   

Wearing an elastic band to keep one's glasses on sounds like something an older man would do. In the late 60's, however, is this true.
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Tootai
Username: Tootai

Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 6:39 am:   

I'm not sure what kind of glasses Stine used, but if he was for example, seriously short sighted, a person with normal eyesight would have serious trouble seeing with them. Not exactly something you would wear when escaping from the police.

I've wondered about Z's glasses. Why didn't he wear them at Blue Rock Springs? Why wear them at Lake Berryessa under his hood when no one could even see them?
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Breakout
Username: Breakout

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 7:39 am:   

Maybe he did have them on at BRS and LHR-- who would know? MM could have been so shaken that he didn't know. I would think if Zodiac wore them at LB then he really needed them. Did police ever speak with optometrists around Vallejo, Benicia, etc? Of course, I hear stories that optometry wasn't very high tech back then--locally, regular doctors just rummaged around in a box of glasses and had you try on pairs until you found one that made you see a little better.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 8:09 am:   

Chris Waites, who was Ted Kaczynski's Montana neighbor and wrote a book about his longstanding acquaintance with him, said that when biking, Kaczynski wore a pair of full, dark-rimmed glasses, "like reading glasses or corrective lenses, but he didn't need glasses to see." He used them for eye protection. Curious in and of itself, but its also illustrative of the fact that prescription or reading glasses wouldn't necessarily be an impediment for Zodiac.
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:13 am:   

Tootai, I experimented with some clip on glass's as described by Hartnell, along with a copy of the hood that was left in my car. It turns out that the glass's helped to hold the hood in place. The Z still may have needed them. I wondered about the band that Kathleen Johns described, and came up with the idea that the Z might have had a job that required him to look down a lot. Or because she saw things in his car that looked as if he had a boat, that alone would be a good reason to hold your glass's on with something ( They don't float ). Maybe he enjoyed fishing. Allen, Kane, and Hernandez had boats. I believe I have the only picture of Kane with glass's. His ego wouldn't allow him to be seen with them on in pictures. As soon as I took the picture of him ,he took them off. The next picture I took was about 2min later he has them off. Now when I see him ,he wares sunglass's, even in the dark of winter. He still looks the same, those pictures were taken in 1990. I would love to know his secret of how not to age !
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Tootai
Username: Tootai

Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   

I think that is reaching. What did Johns describe seeing that had to do with boats? I seem to recall kids clothing, a cigarette tray and a flashlight but that's about it.
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Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 7:09 pm:   

Tom is right.It was Johns who described an elastic band that held the perp's glasses in place.It's possible knowning that there could be violence involved the band was to keep his glasses from coming off!

Kathleen told me he did chase after(this after he set the car in park due to the position on the ramp-I feel he had to also get the rubber grip flashlight that JK had seen on his dash board-she told me he used this flashlight to shine it in the field and weeds where she was hiding-I feel he thought he had some time to find KJ,and was not expecting that truck driver to show up!)she and Jennifer and that she took refuge in a field.
She had a head start and she 'ran as fast'as she could.

To trick him,at first, she told the driver she was 'going to be sick',so as she quickly departed the vehicle he probably thought since she was pregnant she was going away from the car for a short distance to expectorate!she was holding her baby and this may have made him feel she wasn't going too far!
Of course,she then broke into a run!So if he was prepared(as Z was at LB)to encounter violence he was justified.He didn't lose those glasses in the dark only for the police to find.

Perhaps,if this man was the killer of Bates(as we know know Bate's car was sabotaged too!)losing that watch was not forgotten and losing anything-like glasses-from his person was not going to be repeated again!

One personal note.Kathleen had tears in her eyes when she told us that Jennifer was 'aways crying over something,'but that evening she was very "quiet."
She felt that if she reacted while in the car in an emotional manner or if the baby had started crying it would probably have triggered the driver to act violently.
Kathleen looked up said 'I feel Someone up there was watching over us,'or words to this effect.I agreed.

If mr.Crow's observation on 12/20/68 was correct and the person or driver of the white Chevy on LHR was wearing glasses and-if who Crow saw was the killer of DF/BLJ-then Z was wearing glasses that night.FYI

It is true that MM said the perp or shooter was not wearing glasses, but perhaps,Z felt safe at BRS as it was dark and concealing his face was to be accomplished by blinding his victims with that 'very powerful light.'
Z wasn't planning for them to survive the blasts of a 9MM at such close range and give police a description!All FYI
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Yarbchris
Username: Yarbchris

Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 7:45 pm:   

Excellent deductions, Howard. As a long term, nearsighted, four-eyes, I can attest to a time when my eyesight wasn't so bad that it would be possible to go without wearing glasses in certain situations (swimming, water skiing, fisticuffs, football, track, etc.) My vision would not be perfect, but I would be able to perform at a reasonable level. I remember vividly one teammate making a gift of an elastic strap so that I could wear glasses while playing basketball without it becoming an embarrassing and expensive endeavor.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that I can see it being entirely possible that Zodiac could go without glasses if need be, even if for the most part they were a necessary accessory.
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Davidmm
Username: Davidmm

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 9:22 am:   

I wonder, if Z did wear Stine's glasses, could that account for the funny "lope" to his walk? If anyone's ever worn someone else's thick prescription glasses, then you know that it will make you walk strangely.
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Tootai
Username: Tootai

Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   

I used to be very near sighted and now that I try on my old glasses, it just gives me a big headache. I just still imagine being to walk properly etc. I think Z needed glasses to see properly, otherwise he wouldn't have worn them at Lake Berryessa.
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Nachtsider
Username: Nachtsider

Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   

I could have sworn that I saw Paul Stine's glasses still sitting on his face in an uncensored crime-scene photograph of the Presidio Heights shooting. A hunt for the image is definitely in order right now - I'll post a link to it as soon as I succeed.
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Bababijan
Username: Bababijan

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 5:31 pm:   

Natchsider, I will not be surprised if police file photos of Stine with glasses on ever surface from some place.

If there are such photos, there is a simple explanation for it as well.

After reaching the crime scene, some photos might have been taken while Stine still had his glasses on. Then someone might have removed his glasses in order to take some more photos of him without glasses for further identification purposes.

Eventually, SFPD might have decided to just publicize Stine's crime scene photos with Stine without glasses.

When you look at a Stine's crime scene photo with him being posed as such without glasses, it is very hard to try to convince someone that the body did not belong to Stine ... Stine is still alive ... Stine just wanted to lose himself without a trace ... so forth and so on.

With crime scene photos with Stine wearing glasses, there was a reasonable possibility to give conspiracy theorists ample opportunity to dispute that whoever was killed that night was some form of body double for Stine ... Stine pulled a body switch scam in order to collect life insurance money via his wife ... or similar tall tales along such lines.

Thankfully, SFPD had put a stop to such possible outrageous claims if they did take two different sets of photos from Stine's crime scene. Come to think of it, SFPD did all it could that night. Z just got lucky. For a flat tire or a stalled engine could spell the end of him. In turn, that would save SFPD many humiliating years to face.

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