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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 8:02 pm:   

As everyone should know by now, Tom received an e-mail in late 2002 from a woman named Deborah who claimed that about 30 years earlier, she had double dated Ted Bundy twice when he was living and working in Forestville (near Santa Rosa), at a place called Electro Vector, when they had the Xerox contract. We verified there was in fact such a place in Forestville (long since closed), and in the story Killers Club, (which appeared in the December 15-21, 2004, issue of the North Bay Bohemian), RV Scheide outlined theories that the Zodiac or Ted Bundy may have been responsible for the murders of 8 young women in and around Santa Rosa between February 1972 and December 1973. They are:

1) 2-4-1972 Yvonne Weber, 13;

2) 2-4-1972 Maureen Sterling, 12;

3) 3-4-1972 Kim Allen, 19;

4) 4-25-1972 Jeanette Kamahele, 20, whose remains have never been found;

5) between 12-1 and 12-8-1972 Lori Kursa, 13;

6) 7-15-1973 Caroline Davis, 15;

7) 12-22-1973 Theresa Walsh, 23; and

8) ca. 1972-74 Jane Doe, found on 7-6-1979 a mere hundred yards from where Lori Kursa had been found.

As a result of the story, we received 2 tips: one from a man who said he worked at Electro Vector starting in 1969 and was responsible for getting the Xerox contract that year (although he did not recall if Bundy was there, since employees would come and go on a regular basis). The second was from a man who claimed his friend and her sister encountered Bundy in Healdsburg in the early 1970's; they had just left the movie theater when a man in a VW pulled up, explaining he was new to town and asking for directions to some location. He offered to pay them to get in his car and show him where it was, but they declined, explaining their father was going to pick them up. The man drove off, and after Bundy became national news a few years later, they recognized him as the man who asked them for directions that night.

One of the theories advanced by the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department was that Z was the killer (mainly because they really had no better theory), and in the September 1975 Front Page Detective story, "He Wants Slave Girls Waiting For Him In Paradise", author Hugh Stephens linked the Zodiac murders, the SR murders and the murders later attributed to Ted Bundy, all to the same killer.

The day Bundy was executed (1-26-1989), "Ted Bundy Suspected In Santa Rosa Killings," by Michael Taylor, appeared in the Chronicle on page A6. Sonoma County Sheriff's Detective Sergeant Mike Brown said, "Bundy was looked at as a very serious suspect," but less than 6 weeks later on 3-5-1989, "Young women's cases most troubling," by Randi Rossmann, appeared in the Santa Rosa Press-Democrat on pages A1 and A10, in which retired detective Butch Carlstedt says he ruled Bundy out on the basis of a credit card purchase showing he had been in Washington when Sterling and Weber vanished. Additionally, he said, "All of Bundy's girls' heads were crushed. We didn't have anything like that. He was also a necrophiliac."

While I'm no expert on Bundy, I do not recall reading that he crushed all of his victims' skulls; we also know that he had no problem killing young girls, as known victims Lynette Culver (13) and Kimberly Leach (12) prove.

We also know that Bundy was capable of abducting and killing 2 women at once, as he demonstrated at Lake Sammamish on 7-14-1974, when he murdered Janice Ott and Denise Naslund, so abducting Sterling and Weber together would have been no problem (although it must be noted that he abducted them at different times on the same day; however, he would hardly have been troubled by 2 girls aged 12 and 13). He also sometimes dumped different victims in the same spot, since Ott and Naslund were found together with Georgeann Hawkins, who vanished on 6-11-1974. Caroline Davis was found on 7-31-1973 in the exact spot where Sterling and Weber had been found on 12-28-1972.

We know for a fact that Bundy travelled from Seattle to San Francisco, a 775 mile road trip, in the spring of 1969 to surprise his ex-girlfriend at work; had he driven along Highway 101, he would have passed through Santa Rosa only an hour before arriving in SF. Considering he is known to have driven literally hundreds of miles to troll for victims, making the 1550 mile round trip to spy on his ex would not be impossible.

My interest in Ted Bundy deepened over the last few years, especially when some possible gaps in his history emerged. The one that fit the Electro Vector tip was in the fall of 1971: Bundy was fired from Ped-Line in September 1971 for theft, and Ann Rule, whose only claim to fame was that she was friends with Bundy, met him at the crisis center in the fall of 1971, where he had apparently been working for a while. A recent e-mail to her asking if she remembered the date more specifically was quite enlightening: after 35 years, she does not.

For all we know, Bundy was fired from Ped-Line on 9-1-1971, and fall ended on 12-20-1971; that's a 110 day window in which Bundy could have literally been anywhere. Deborah said that Bundy was in Forestville for 2-3 months, which fits perfectly.

Today, I finally received my copy of The Phantom Prince, written by Bundy's girlfriend, "Liz Kendall," and published in 1981. A quick perusal turned up some interesting facts: on page 37, she says that in July 1971, she moved into an apartment near Bundy's place, but there were times when he wouldn't show up for dinner, and other times he'd show up when she wasn't expecting him; "Our lives were out of sync," she wrote. Bundy was busy with school, and he took the LSAT (Law School Admission Test) that fall; this was a test he had to take before Christmas. However, his test scores were very low, and so he took it again with similar results. She also notes on page 38 that his school of choice was Hasting's Law School in San Francisco.

"Kendall" glossed over the fall of 1971 in just a paragraph or two, and that may be significant. If their lives were "out of sync," and if he took the test in the late fall (December?), that might fit in with Bundy possibly living in Forestville for a short time. Of course, that would mean that he might have taken a semester off, but we have no way of knowing; however, considering his behavior, it might be possible for him to have slipped away for a month or two and "Kendall" would have been none the wiser.

A wild idea that just occurred to me is that a school schedule isn't necessarily Monday through Friday; if Bundy had classes in the fall of 1971 that were scheduled say Monday through Thursday, he could conceivably have driven to Forestville Thursday night, worked at Electro Vector Friday through Sunday (assuming they were open for business on the weekend), and driven all night back to Seattle to be in time for school Monday morning. He may have skipped classes once in a while also, and such a schedule would explain his relationship with "Kendall" being "out of sync" and why his LSAT scores were so low: he was either at school in Seattle, at work at Electro Vector, or on the road, and had little or no time to study.

"Kendall" also mentions in Chapter 6 that in the summer of 1972, Bundy once dated another woman because she had turned him down for a night out, so it seems he had no problem dating other women, as Deborah described in her e-mail to Tom.

So, there is still the possibility that Deborah may be right and that Bundy did live and work in Forestville (on the weekends) for a short time in the fall of 1971, possibly to get a foothold in California for when he would attend Hastings Law School the following year, and also to stalk his ex-girlfriend, who lived only an hour's drive to the south. As a result of that, he became quite familiar with the SR area, and when living that double life became impossible, he settled for driving down sporadically to spy on/stalk her and to kill in his old stomping grounds.

BTW, I work with someone who lives and works in San Diego, who also commutes up here every weekend, a distance of some 575 miles, to work at the spa. So, it is definitely not impossible for Ted Bundy to have done the same...
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:01 pm:   

I think only a couple of Bundy's victims could have qualified as having had their heads "crushed," whatever that means. He used blows to the head in order to control his victims; strangulation was his usual means of dealing death. In the case of his last victim it appeared that he had cut her throat.
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Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:50 pm:   

Ed the Press Democrat 8-2-73 says of Carolyn Davis,"the body of the latest victim was thrown off the Franz Valley Rd. by a very large man or by two men because it cleared tall brush 20 feet down the steep embankment". Is this something that Bundy would be capable of doing? Also Carolyn was poisoned by a massive dose of strychnine of either sulphate or tablet form. Is this a Bundy MO? While we do know that Sterling, Weber, Allen, Kamahele and Kursa were from the Santa Rosa area Davis and Walsh were not. Walsh was hitchhiking from the LA area to Garberville and Davis was hitching from Garberville To SF. Except for Kim Allen all the girls were found days to months after they were last seen. All of the SRHM victims had long straight hair parted in the middle, all were nude, all were found near water and all were found in the NE area of Santa Rosa. Also the Jane Doe found in 1979 was buried and in a laundry sack. I think that the killer or killers were a lot more local than Washington state.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 2:25 am:   

Some of Bundy's victims were never found, such as the hitchhiker he claimed to have murdered and thrown into the Snake River, and others were skeletons when they were found, so we really have no way of knowing precisely what he did with all of his victims; Carlstedt's claim of ruling Bundy out sounds strange, which is why I'm still looking into him as the perp.

Seagull: I don't know what sort of "tall brush" there was off Franz Valley Road where she was found, because I don't recall seeing anything that meets that description, but obviously things can change in 3 decades. Besides, I seem to recall reading somewhere that Bundy was abnormally strong, and it really would not have been a problem to dump the body down the embankment and then drag it to where it was found; remember, she was found 16 days after she vanished, so traces of her body being dragged might have been difficult to ascertain. Either way, the fact that Davis was found in the exact spot that Sterling and Weber were indicates that the same perp killed all 3.

I'm not aware offhand of Bundy poisoning any of his victims, but then, the 36 or so that are attributed to him are undoubtedly only a fraction of the number of women and girls he really murdered. Bundy was highly intelligent, so it's very possible that he was aware enough to change his MO while killing here so that LE wouldn't immediately link them to the killer in Washington, and who's to say that he wasn't experimenting with more efficient ways to kill?

As far as Davis and Walsh go, we don't know where they were actually picked up. If Bundy drove down 101 to SR and SF, he would have passed through Garberville and could have picked Davis up there. Of course, it was another 140 miles to SR, so that might explain the strychnine poisoning: he once told Bob Keppel "that he never killed anyone he was with for more than twenty minutes" (Signature Killers, p. 218), or he'd start to see her as a human being and not an object. He may not have had the time or the inclination to stop and kill her while still on the road and so gave her a poisoned drink. Walsh, on the other hand, may have hitchhiked as far north as SR and was picked up by Bundy there, explaining that he was on his way back to Seattle and would drive through Garberville.

But the thing is, most, if not all, of the SR victims fit Bundy's victimology (Jane Doe, the 8th victim, was a skeleton and never identified, so we don't know if she fit the pattern), and he had a definite link to the Bay Area: his ex-girlfriend, referred to as "Stephanie Brooks," lived and worked in SF, and we know that on at least one occasion (in the spring of 1969), he apparently drove from Seattle to SF just to surprise her. There are also several apparently still-unsolved SF murders that are very Bundy-like as well (ca. 1971-73), as I explained in previous posts; Yellow Book attributed these to Z. There were 3 murders in or around Stanford the summer he took a class there (1967 or 68), but I know nothing about them other than Bundy was a suspect.

In any case, all this is still speculative, and I'm not willing to drop Bundy as a suspect until such time as it can be conclusively proven that he was never here. Also, if Bundy was in fact living and working in Forestville in the fall of 1971, then he was definitely a local for a short time.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 4:50 pm:   

I don't want to horn in on your thread Ed, but I have some color commentary. I took the LSAT at Stanford in 1970. I wanted to go to the University of the Pacific in Stockton, but my scores were too Low.--Maybe Ted was there the day I took the test! His girlfriend was there.

You bring up some good points about the Santa Rosa killings, and body locations. I tend to agree with your thinking.

I worked with guys that were students at Hastings, Boalt Hall, and Golden Gate School of Law.-----I think you are right, that Ted may have been down from Wash.----Trolling.
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Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 10:31 pm:   

Part of the problem with these crimes is that there is so little information to work with. They were investigated as being part of the California Occult murders, the 4 Pi Movement and even Arthur Allen was seriously looked at for these murders. Manson family members were known to live in Guerneville at that time. They killed one of their own, James Willett, in Guerneville on Nov.8, 1972. They were a very fluid bunch moving around between homes or safe havens in Stockton, Sacramento, Somoma County and Southern Calif. Also there was the SRJC instructor, Fred Manalli, killed in a car accident that was said to have hand drawn pictures depicting Kim Allens death. To see a Stockton police report on the murder of James Willett's wife(it includes some details about Willett's murder as well) Go to the site below, scroll down to the archive and it's fifth and sixth thing listed there. http://www.internet.is/bret/manson.htm
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 10:42 pm:   

Carlstedt mentioned Manalli (though not by name) in the 3-5-1989 Press-Democrat story. I don't know much about him other than the few tidbits in the paper, and whatever was mentioned in the blue book (and we all know how accurate that author is when it comes to reporting the truth).
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Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 5:50 pm:   

I attempted to find Manalli's widow. What I found was an affidavit of death,for her, filed with the Sonoma County Recorder in 1991. I don't know how this differs from a death certificate. Do you or anyone know?
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 7:14 pm:   

Manalli had some interesting connections to the case. He, or his father, was at Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois before migrating west. Rock Island shipped a lot of ordnance and ammunition to the bay area, to be loaded on those ships bound for Viet Nam.----Manalli also was a prof or a grad student at SF State--I forget.
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Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 6:44 pm:   

I am glad that one of our Top posters Ed Neil,is saying that Z could have lived some distance from his crime territory and he would -at times -travel to a distant area and kill.

I extrapolate that from his view that Teddie could have gone a great distance,periodically,to kill his victims.So,then Zodiac could have done the same thing making capture even more difficult.
In those days the "local guy" was suspected.
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   

Howard ,I luv ya. Yes Z went where ever he had to,he couldn't just stop.When things heated up here I believe he went where ever he wanted,and killed even more than we think.If he would have confessed to any killings out of state ,he would have left a paper trail of some kind. He had to shut up with the bragging. Teds mother is still alive,she may still have letters from him showing when he was in Calif. Ed should perhaps get intouch with her.She still believes that her son did not kill anyone ,she is still in Washington.

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