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Mike_r
Username: Mike_r

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 8:23 am:   

Hi-

I had actually posted OT about this yesterday but decided to start a new thread.

Here is a post from Howard from 2002,

"Couple this with all of the other British/Australian expressions in Zodiacs letters,which shows he was from there or had an interest(even a mystical one) in those countries. Even the military Timex that was ripped off of Bates'killer was purchased from a PX in Great Britain!
Although I can't say how I know this,the RPD has 'information' that shows British connections,if this evidence is truly from Zodiac."

Howard, I noticed that you reiterated this interesting claim the other day. I was wondering if you are at liberty now to say now how this fact was determined. The watch seems pretty non-descript to me but I am not an expert on timepieces and am therefore wondering it had some sort of serial number, etc., that would have allowed such a tracing of its origins.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this issue!

Mike
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 9:46 am:   

I think it would be highly impractical for a maker of relatively cheap watches to stamp lot numbers on the backs of the watches.
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Mike_r
Username: Mike_r

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 11:10 am:   

Hi Doug-

That is why I am interested in finding out how they managed to trace it. These watches seemed to be too inexpensive for the company to want to keep tabs on where they were distributed...but then again, I am no expert on this kind of stuff!

Mike
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 6:42 pm:   

I was under the impression that it was traced to England by a serial number rather than a lot number.
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George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 10:41 pm:   

Then again, as correctly noted by Howard, Bates is a possible victim and not a definite one. And the watch could be anybody's. Still, a cheap watch leaving such a paper trail is indeed remarkable. I have a watch from Switzerland and once had one from Italy (lost that one) but have found nothing in my lineage or present self to suggest a connection with either country. (Although I relish toasted ravioli and love Orson's reference to Switzerland in The Third Man, the line about the cuckoo clock.)

Seriously, what overwhelming data suggests a British connection? The use of the words "shall?" and "rather?" That Z sometimes didn't split infinitives? Because like tens of millions of Americans he saw the British film "Yellow Submarine?" (I think that the Beatles were a British group.) Someone please set me straight, with specific examples. If you care to refer to "experts," names are appreciated. I've checked the archives and haven't been successfully wooed into accepting the British theory.

And referencing the Mikado as a British connection is like the Zodiac quoting passages from "Dead Souls" and our dedeucing that we have a Zodiac/Russian connection. (Hey, Dead Souls. Hmmm, Dead Souls= "slaves in afterlife?")

The Zodiac had a lot of time to formulate his letters, and these notes are filled with disguised handwriting, lies, obfuscation and second-rate puns (although "cerous" and "cid" are mildly amusing.) Because of all this, how can a connection with England or Austrailia or South Africa or any other English-speaking country be so strongly asserted? Doug, your command of the English language far exceeds mine. In your opinion, is there a Zodiac-British connection? If you believe such a connection exists, can you tell me what I'm missing? Thanks. The Zodiac's letters seem rather "American" to me.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 10:57 pm:   

It's unlikely that cheap, mass-produced watches would get individual serial numbers. Where do you put them? The faces are generally painted on, and the cases would need to be stamped or engraved. Model numbers, perhaps, but if you do it that way then each model has to have its own die, or whatever they use to stamp it out with.
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Mike_r
Username: Mike_r

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 6:46 pm:   

Hi Howard-

Can you shed any light on this debate?

Mike
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 9:41 pm:   

George, forgive me for not responding to your query sooner. I seem to have scanned this one over. No, I don't see a direct British connection. I think Zodiac had a good background in literature, especially with his allusion to the obscure poem "Agatha," by the English poet laureate Austin. And he seems to grasp the tenets of literature in general. But that doesn't make him British, as you've pointed out.

I agree also that he comes across essentially as American, though it's a subjective opinion based on the totality of what we know about him.
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Howard_davis
Username: Howard_davis

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   

When a watch was purchased by the military for sale in their PX's a serial number was engraved on the back of the watch.By tracing the serial number one can locate where the watch was sold.

I have seen photos of watches sold in a PX and a military serial number is on the back.

It does not matter if a watch was a Timex or not as all had serial numbers and some had other info too.

There are photos on the net.An English gentleman was kind enough to send photos of military watches with some going back quite late.
All have number info on the rear plate.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 2:46 pm:   

Back to the watch.
Why would this watch stop at 12:20 if the estimated time of the attack was around 10:15-10:30?
Maybe the watch kept working for a while and then stopped but it just seems odd that it would stop exactly two hours later. Not at 10:55 or 11:40 for example.
It's almost as if the watch did stop upon impact with the ground but was not set to Pacific time zone time but was set to Central time zone time.
It just makes me wonder if the killer had just returned from somewhere in the central time zone but had not reset his watch yet to the time in California. I've done that before and didn't get around to resetting my watch to the corresponding time until the next day.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 2:59 pm:   

It was closer to 12:23 or 12:24, but regardless, I'd guess the killer simply didn't wind it up and that it just happened to stop about 2 hours later.

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