| Author | Message | ||
     Cougar Username: Cougar Registered: 11-2006 |
First I've heard of this guy. Tom, have you seen this? Did DKaufman really try to sell you a piece of Stine's shirt? I read over this guy's site and he makes some pretty compelling connections. Just wondering what your take is on this. http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=e811cb4 b825201af59a1488b2f5f3d73&threadid=279589 | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Dennis Kaufman is a conman, nothing more. He has some sort of axe to grind with his stepdad, which is why he's accusing him of being Z. The first clue that he's full of it is the fact that he tried to sell a piece of what he claimed was Stine's shirt to Tom for $50,000; I've seen the e-mail, and Kaufman has spent the last several years denying that fact. It only goes to show that he's trying to make money on this but otherwise has no interest in the case; the fact that he wanted to sell a phony piece of Stine's shirt instead of turning it over to the authorities speaks volumes. The second clue is his baseless claim that his stepdad murdered his mother; I have a copy of her death certificate, and it shows that she died at the UC Davis Medical Center of cardio respiratory arrest due to anoxic brain injury due to respiratory failure due to autoimmune cholangitis. In other words, she died of natural causes due to the rare disease she had. True, she was only 50 years old, but people can die of natural causes at any age. Dennis Kaufman is not to be taken seriously. Law enforcement obviously doesn't, or they would have arrested Jack Tarrance for the Zodiac murders years ago. | ||
| Cougar Username: Cougar Registered: 11-2006 |
Hmmm.......thanks Ed. I knew that Tom or yourself or one of the regulars here would have the scoop on this guy. If he is a fraud/conman he sure lucked out on the details in regards to his step-dad - there is alot there that would give you pause for consideration. | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Just as there is for every other suspect out there. Circumstantial evidence, which is all anyone has on any of the known suspects, can be forced to fit just about anyone you want. In fact, when Mike Rodelli and I talked to Lt Bruton at SFPD back in October 1999, he said you could open a page of the telephone book at random, throw a dart, investigate the person it lands on, and build up a good case against him. It's unfortunate but true. I personally believe the only way this case will be solved now is to find the smoking gun, ie, the hood, knife, 4 guns (.22, 2 x 9mm, and .45) and Stine's wallet, keys and shirt tail. | ||
| Cougar Username: Cougar Registered: 11-2006 |
Do you suppose that like Dennis Rader, aka BTK, the Z has a mother lode? Is it known that Z took trophies from all of his victims? You mentioned Stine's wallet and keys......are there more missing items? Forgive me for having to ask these things.....I've followed the case for a couple of years through this site and a couple of books but in no way am I an expert on the details. My God there is SO much out there on this case. | ||
| Cougar Username: Cougar Registered: 11-2006 |
An afterthought: I just remembered that dkaufman claims that Tarrance is the Red Phantom killer from 1940's Texarkana as well. | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Z took items only from Stine, and I don't consider them trophies but rather proof of his culpability; the wallet and car keys were incidental, I suspect, because Z really made it look like a cab robbery. Kaufman also claims his stepdad is responsible for perhaps dozens of murders. Using the radian in a way that Z never intended, Kaufman drew radians extending out from Mt D and then claimed that murder victims were found radiating out from there along the radians. He otherwise offered nothing to back that absurd claim up, and clearly does not understand what the radian was intended for. | ||
| Douglas_oswell Username: Douglas_oswell Registered: 4-2006 |
Recall that Zodiac wanted nothing to do with Hartnell's car keys, or his wallet. That wasn't what he was about. His goal was to take revenge against a class of persons whom he envied. | ||
| Greygost Username: Greygost Registered: 10-2006 |
Doug & Ed, I think you're right about Zodiac's indifference to "trophies". I believe he only cut the bloody swath from Stine's shirt so he could prove he had killed a man after the failed attempts on Mageau and Hartnell. I think those earlier failures really bothered him and led to extreme feelings of inadequacy. Poor Stine. If Z had killed the other two, he might still be alive today enjoying grandchildren. Bernie | ||
| Douglas_oswell Username: Douglas_oswell Registered: 4-2006 |
I agree with you, Greygost. The Stine scenario was completely different from the first three. This was right after Berryessa, when people began speculating all kinds of unkind things about Zodiac that I'm sure he didn't like being imputed to him. Stine may have been nothing more than a big red herring, which, as you observe, was very unfortunate for Stine. Not only did he prove that he had killed a man, but that he had done it in an audacious manner as well. | ||
| Kevin Username: Kevin Registered: 10-2006 |
This guy had me going for awhile. I still think his step-dad makes for a "better than average" suspect. He had a lot of circumstantial evidence that Jack lived in the right places at the right times, had been in trouble with the law, played around with dynamite, guns, was competent in drawing electronic schematics, had a ham radio license, etc, etc. The problem arose when the hand writing didn't match up. I mean, if it doesn't match then it just won't work, and it didn't match up. In every case, his step dad Jack wrote the small letter "a" completely different. I went to his site recently and I see where he dug up one instance (supposedly) where he wrote his small "a" like Z, but that's it. In every case, Z wrote the small "a" one way, this guy wrote it exactly the opposite I've also noticed he tends to leave out anything that would rule his Jack out, so you are only seeing the evidence that looks good. Appearantly, some people in law enforcement thought he was a possibly good suspect as well, but that was years ago. | ||
| Cougar Username: Cougar Registered: 11-2006 |
Quoting Ed Neil: "Kaufman also claims his stepdad is responsible for perhaps dozens of murders. Using the radian in a way that Z never intended, Kaufman drew radians extending out from Mt D and then claimed that murder victims were found radiating out from there along the radians. He otherwise offered nothing to back that absurd claim up, and clearly does not understand what the radian was intended for." What was the radian intended for? | ||
| Greygost Username: Greygost Registered: 10-2006 |
Cougar: There's a bare bones description of the significance of the radian on Jake Wark's Z site here: http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/radian1.html | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
That's based on Penn's "research," which is totally meaningless. I wouldn't give it a second thought, all it does it serve to confuse the issue. We don't have many clues regarding the radian, but what we do have is very specific: The map coupled with this code will tell you where the bomb is set. (6-26-1970 letter) and PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians (7-26-1970 letter) Penn focused on the word "radian" and totally ignored everything else; that's why he decided to place a single radian on Mt D and rotated it to see what he wanted Z to say. In reality, looking at the clues, Z is telling us that the Mt D code refers to radians and inches. Coupled with the map (which is what he said to do in the first place!), the code would presumably tell us to go in a clockwise direction starting at zero (that's what the "magnetic indicator" suggests) a specific number of radians, and then out from the center a specific number of inches. That point would therefore indicate where Z claimed to have buried the bus bomb. So, placing a single radian on Mt D is totally meaningless, because that is not what Z said to do, and drawing radians out from the summit of Mt D and plotting alleged murder sites along them is just as meaningless, despite what Kaufman claims. He clearly does not know what he's talking about. | ||
| Cougar Username: Cougar Registered: 11-2006 |
Thanks Ed and Greygost. | ||
| Vscantu Username: Vscantu Registered: 7-2006 |
Here's the biggest piece of evidence that shows Dennis Kaufmans' stepdad COULDN'T have been The Zodiac: his stepdad Tarrance had an UNBELIEVABLY THICK SOUTHERN ACCENT! This guy made President Lyndon Johnson sound like a cultured British gentleman! You can hear Tarrance talk here (scroll down to the 2nd to last page & click the links that say "LISTEN"): http://thezodiackiller.digitalzones.com/ As you can hear, he sounds like an oakie from Muskogie (no offence to anyone). Sorry, but the real Zodiac made 'live' phone calls to police immediately after 2 of his murders: Blue Rock Springs & Lake Berryessa. And guess what? In both calls, the police dispatchers stated emphaticaly that Zodiac had NOT A HINT of any accent whatsoever! He certainly didn't sound like Gomer Pile mixed with Slim Pickins, which is what Mr. Tarrance sounded like. PLUS the real Zodiac spent 2-hours in a car with Kathleen Johns talking to her intermitently. She also never stated that he had a THICK SOUTHERN DRAWL. So just on the basis of wacko Dennis Kaufman's stepdads' extremely unique voice, his qualification as the true Zodiac Killer goes- POOF!- up in smoke! | ||
| Kevin Username: Kevin Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, it's not really clear if Kathleen Johns actually spent 2 hours in the car with Zodiac, only "maybe." I'd say "probably" but it's not really clear. We know he claimed credit for it though. Still, your point is a valid one about the accent. Plus, like I said, the small letter "a" never matches. You can have a guy that matches in every way, but all it takes is one small thing to rule them out. People need to learn how to let their pet suspect go when something rules them out. That's why I personally think "none" of the known perps is Zodiac. My best wild a**ed guess is that he was probably someone in the Navy stationed in Valejo or Tresure Island. | ||
| Vscantu Username: Vscantu Registered: 7-2006 |
Kevin wrote: "People need to learn how to let their pet suspect go when something rules them out." Perfect statement, Kevin. I think we could all learn a lesson & be the much wiser using that logic. But sometimes an investigator, whether professional or amateur, gets so "married" to his suspect that he will find any excuse to NOT eliminate him. Alot like being "co-dependant" on someone in a relationship. You'll find any reason to dismiss the abuse you might suffer in order to keep that person you origianlly fell in love with in your life. | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
There are so many things that rule out all the known suspects it's not funny, and yet, sometimes ideas that are quite bizarre are trotted out to explain things away. Allen is one such example; his writing doesn't match Z's, therefore he used a projector and copied other people's writing. His fingerprints don't match, so that means he used someone's severed fingers. He doesn't even match eyewitness descriptions, so the eyewitness accounts are minimized and/or substantially altered, such as adding fog to make it difficult to see Z at Stine's cab. Then we have Kane. The fact is, a completely non-official investigation by someone from another jurisdiction entirely identified him as Z based on the disappearance of Donna Lass and her dubious connection to Z based on a card that could have been written by anyone, faked by anyone using information already made public and could mean anything. We don't even know that a crime was committed since there was no investigation into her disappearance, which may have been totally voluntary. Not only that, Kane's writing doesn't match Z's and his prints don't match either (being a criminal, his prints are in AFIS, and Z's prints have been run and yet there's been no match, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together). Then we have Jack Tarrance. The first thing Dennis Kaufman did was lie about how his mother died; he claims his father murdered her, and yet, her death certificate proves she died of natural causes. Much of the "evidence" presented by Kaufman has no relevance to the case, and the rest appears to be nothing more than fiction from that yellow book, such as the phrase, "fiddle & fart round" being used in Lubbock County, where Jack happens to be from. He also claims that the "wide flange beam" symbol actually is a symbol for wide flange beams, then claims Jack worked for a steel company in 1950, so that's why it's in the Halloween card. Ultimately, just like every other single suspect out there, what "evidence" Kaufman has is either circumstantial, irrelevant or just plain BS (and there's no way of telling what he made up just to make his stepdad seem more suspicious). The fact that he tried to sell a piece of what he claimed to be Stine's shirt to Tom instead of turning it over to SFPD as evidence speaks volumes. And the fact that Kaufman claims his stepdad Jack was in jail more than once means that his prints were taken and should be in AFIS, and since Z's prints have been run and there's been no match, that means that Jack is ruled out, despite the questionable "evidence" against him... | ||
| Kevin Username: Kevin Registered: 10-2006 |
All good points Ed. Would you mind taking this a bit further with Marshall? He's a guy who always intrigued me, I guess he intrigued Narlow a lot too, don't know if he still does though. Can you come up with anything that would outright rule him out? Seems like he is the least known. | ||
| Joanne_in_mb Username: Joanne_in_mb Registered: 12-2006 |
You've got to admit, though, the resemblance of this guy to the composite sketches is striking! http://www.JoAnnesPage.net | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Mr X is a dead ringer for the composite. Jack Tarrance looks more like Gumby in comparison. | ||
| Joanne_in_mb Username: Joanne_in_mb Registered: 12-2006 |
Ed, who is Mr. X and do you have some pictures of him ("Mr. X is a dead ringer for the composite.")? http://www.JoAnnesPage.net | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
X is someone I discovered in June 1999 who was extensively investigated by Mike Rodelli, and yes, I have some pics of him but unfortunately, he has threatened to sue if his name is ever published in connection to this case, so I hope you understand that Mike, myself and the handful of others that know about this guy can't post pics nor e-mail them out to anyone. | ||
| Joanne_in_mb Username: Joanne_in_mb Registered: 12-2006 |
Ed, without naming any names, can you give us some details about why you feel Mr. X is the Zodiac? If you don't feel comfortable posting them on the board, can you email them to me at JoAnneMB1@aol.com? http://www.JoAnnesPage.net | ||
| Tommyt Username: Tommyt Registered: 4-2006 |
Ed, Proof positive with your argument re: the swatch; if Kaufman did have Stine's swatch via the belongings of Terrance, SFPD or FBI would have snatched it from Kaufman immediately after finding out he tried to sell it to Tom. Kaufman would have then been arrested and likely charged for attempting to sell the evidence. End of story. Kaufman is full of it. | ||
| Tommyt Username: Tommyt Registered: 4-2006 |
Joanne, the following link contains a previous discussion quite a few years back about Jack Terrance, AKA, Jack the Stepdad: http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/ozs/220.html | ||
| Tommyt Username: Tommyt Registered: 4-2006 |
Joanne, the following link contains a previous discussion quite a few years back about Jack Terrance, AKA, Jack the Stepdad, but there is not much there: http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/ozs/220.html | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Joanne, I have seen no evidence that Mr X is Z. I've seen lots of interesting circumstantial evidence, but no smoking gun, no motive, no nothing. One thing is for certain, however: I am of the opinion that he is a dead ringer for the sketch, and that's all I was saying. TT: quite right. Not only that, he likely would have been charged with obstruction of justice at the very least. Once I proved his mother died of natural causes (piece of cake, it's typed right there on her death certificate, of which I have a copy) and was not murdered like he claimed, that immediately made Kaufman's entire story suspect. | ||
| Søren_roest_korsgaard Username: Søren_roest_korsgaard Registered: 12-2006 |
Have read some books about Graphology, his handwriting doesn’t seem to match the Zodiacs in any way. There is to many contradicts to the zodiac writing.. Mister Kaufman must be a crook. I am currently working with an handwriting analyze of one of the zodiacs letters, with a little luck I will post it this weekend. Be aware of possible: bad grammar, spelling, misplaced comma etc. I am not a American.  | ||
| Joanne_in_mb Username: Joanne_in_mb Registered: 12-2006 |
Welcome to the board, Soren! I can't wait to find out the results of the handwriting analysis. http://www.JoAnnesPage.net | ||
| Bomaye Username: Bomaye Registered: 1-2007 |
Ed, based on your "J. Terrance isn't Z because..." crapola, what makes you believe your "Mr. X" is a more viable suspect? I'm not saying J. Terrance isn't or is Z, but there are a lot of strange coinky dinks between the two. And there is a lot of actual "proof" to back up a lot of Kenny Kligon's (joke) talk. Also, the following saying is one of the most ludacris comments you have ever made (or that I have read in the past year or so): "Using the radian in a way that Z never intended..." Well Ed, no one, except Z knows what his intentions with the radians and map were. Sure J. Wark's site tries to describe what his intentions were, but that was just his THEORY. And I would like you to open up a phone book, take a dart, throw it, and whatever name it lands on, try to prove to me that, that person is Z. Back it up with documentation like Klingon (joke again) did. This is not meant to be a bashing session, I am just sick of everyone ruling out everyone else's POI just because it's not theirs. | ||
| Tom_voigt Username: Tom_voigt Registered: 4-2006 |
Bomaya, when you can show me a documented Zodiac encounter in which he was described as having a thick southern drawl, I'll start to believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that Jack could be a legit suspect. | ||
| Tom_voigt Username: Tom_voigt Registered: 4-2006 |
Dennis Kaufman is a conman. Quite telling how he's allegedly trying hard to "prove his case," yet he absolutely avoids anything that might expose his rubbish for what it is. For example: Last summer after I located Nancy Slover,I was contacted by numerous people who wanted her to listen to recordings of various voices. Why? To see if any of them sounded like the Zodiac. Virtually every researcher I know of who has a suspect was interested in Nancy taking a listen. Not Dennis. Why? Because he knows his "suspect" has a thick accent and that Zodiac did not. Therefore, Dennis avoids Nancy like the plague in an effort to keep his traveling freakshow on the road another day. | ||
| Bomaye Username: Bomaye Registered: 1-2007 |
Tom, Again, I didn't say I thought JT (he originally brought sexy back) was the Z. I just said, to sum it all up, Ed is so quick to shoot down anything that doesn't interest him. Meaning, he can't seem to think outside the box. And who is to say that he had that southern drawl all his life? I have family from the east coast that moved to the "deep south" and now talk like the "Good Ol'Boys". One last thing, Tom... you have to admit, Klingon did a good job matching Jack's whereabouts with Z's whereabouts. (And it's Bomaye, with an "E") | ||
| Yarbchris Username: Yarbchris Registered: 9-2006 |
Any person who listened to the interview of Dennis Kaufman last night had the privilege of listening to two hours of exaggeration and outright lies. Up until last night, I even gave Dennis the benefit of the doubt. He presented an interesting story on his site. He had two hours to prove his case last night. He failed. He even proved his motivation for his accusation. He has some unresolved issues with his stepfather, who was very likely the kind of person Dennis described. However, no matter how nasty this man may have been, Dennis and his crony presented nothing worthy of foundation. He also claimed that his site was the only site that held no bias, the only site containing truth. I know he was referring to this site, but he has also visited mine. I am a member of this board and have become a frequent poster. I do not agree with Tom and Ed on everything and I express as much. Everyone seems to have their say here, as long as they don't make terrorist threats, which Dennis readily admits to. Sure, everyone has opinions, including the webmasters here. But instead of bias, I see that Tom has provided an excellent medium for free discussion. Dennis Kaufman has lost all credibility with me. There is nothing he can say about Jack Tarrance that can't be said about a multitude of other men. All of his so-called "facts" seem to be conveniently out of view. I heard the two of them blatantly lying with my own two ears. He has his own devil he wants to vilify further, at the expense of the truth. | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Bomaye, first of all, I do not believe that Mr X is a "more viable" suspect, so please get your facts straight. I may have discovered him, and I agree that there are some odd circumstantial coincidences about him, but there is zero evidence to indicate he is Z. Not only that, FWIW, I do not consider any of the known suspects, including the much maligned Art Allen, to be viable in any way, shape or form. Secondly, what "crapola" are you talking about? Dennis Kaufman tried to sell Tom a piece of what he claimed to be Paul Stine's shirt for several thousands of dollars; do you honestly believe someone who is willing to profit off what he says is a piece of a dead man's shirt and an important piece of evidence is on the level about anything else? Linking Jack to Z through "The Mikado" and Jack being stationed in Japan is ludicrous, and claiming that Jack's ham radio experience shows he knew about codes is complete rubbish, especially since nowhere did Z use Morse code (which a ham radio operator must know). Thirdly, Z described precisely what to do with the map of the Bay Area, Mt D and his code: it was intended to show where he buried his infamous bus bomb, and he even said that's what they were for. There is one and only one way to use those tools to locate a fixed point: one uses radians intead of degrees to obtain a vector from Mt Diablo, and then one measures out the specified number of inches from the center until a specific point is reached. If you or anyone else can show how a single point can be specified in any other way, please educate me on this. By the way, I must ask if you ever took and passed any math classes; if you did, surely would understand what Z meant (in college, I went as far as Calculus 3, so please do not take me for a fool. I actually do know what I am talking about). Drawing lines radiating out from Mr D at angles of one radian and then plotting alleged murder sites (for which Kaufman has not bothered to list the names of these alleged victims nor give any sources for these alleged unsolved murders) is not what Z intended, no matter how much anyone chooses to ignore his very specific directions and use of logic, reasoning and common sense. It's pure crap to say that "no one, except Z knows what his intentions with the radians and map were." All you need to do is read his own words! I suggest you educate yourself on that particular aspect of his crimes before making such asinine statements. And, the fact is, I am not ruling out other suspects because they are not mine, they need to be ruled out because there is no evidence against any of them other than (often questionable) circumstantial evidence. Until a certain discredited political cartoonist who was sued for plagiarism introduced doubt into the evidence in order to make his suspect Allen look more credible, LE had faith enough in that evidence to rule out thousands of suspects; I suggest you check out the Graysmith's inaccuracies and fabrications discussion and educate yourself on this person's character, then return to looking at the suspects with an unbiased eye. And the fact is, Jack Tarrance (among other suspects) have been arrested and fingerprinted, and criminals like him would have had their prints and writing compared to Z's and would have been arrested had there been a match, and that's assuming that any investigative agency truly checked them out, and, in Jack's case, I sincerely doubt that ever happened. It's nothing but pure, wild, unadulterated speculation to assume that some sort of conspiracy by the powers-that-be is responsible for keeping the truth from even being known. | ||
| Joanne_in_mb Username: Joanne_in_mb Registered: 12-2006 |
I missed the Dennis Kaufman interview... is there a recording of it online? http://www.JoAnnesPage.net | ||
| Vscantu Username: Vscantu Registered: 7-2006 |
Bomaye wrote: "This is not meant to be a bashing session, I am just sick of everyone ruling out everyone else's POI just because it's not theirs." Unfortunately, Bomaye, "Mr. X" WAS Ed's suspect. He's the one who originally developed him as a P.O.I.! I wouldn't be so quick to judge him. Now, if Klingon's stepdad "Jack" was in fact the Zodiac, here's what he would have sounded like when he called the cops after the murder at Blue Rock Springs (using super-thick southern accent): "Hi y'all. This heea's that thar Zodiac critter talkin' atcha'. 10-4? I be the varmit who jes' now hornswaggled them 2 smoochers down yonder in the park. Just mosey on down a country mile or so from the substation & sho' 'nuff yewl find ma' handiwork. "I also done in them 2 greenhorns while they was cathin' a 'sat-a-spell' last Christmas down yonder Herman Road a mite. Y'all come catch me now, ya hee-ah? Yeee-haw!" | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Joanne, I have a recording of the entire show, however, I cannot upload them anywhere for some reason, and e-mailing the files has proven to be a pain (Tom never got it for some reason). There isn't much I can do about it until Monday... I want to post a link where it can be downloaded rather than e-mail it out to potentially thousands of people! LOL | ||
| Ed_neil Username: Ed_neil Registered: 5-2006 |
Here's a fascinating post by Tom: Zodiac's Alleged Fingerprints. Law enforcement had enough faith in these prints to eliminate thousands of suspects. Now, if Tom has a copy of the prints, why then does Dennis Kaufman insist that the FBI couldn't compare the cab prints to the fingerprints of his stepdad Jack Tarrance because SFPD refused to cooperate? Can anyone say "bullpucky" (actually, I was thinking of another, much cruder word)? If Tom has a copy, the FBI sure as hell has them too, and they therefore must have compared the two and ruled Jack out. There's no way Kaufman could have talked to the FBI and had them say Jack was a "viable" suspect... | ||
| Exiled Username: Exiled Registered: 1-2007 |
Other than Tarrance, what other suspects bare such a striking resemblence to the composites?...not to say that Tarrance is the fugitive but he sure matches up to the sketches. | ||
| Tom_voigt Username: Tom_voigt Registered: 4-2006 |
Exiled, one of the sketches of Zodiac that Dennis uses isn't a true composite; it's merely an interpretation by a Sonoma detective on what Zodiac might look like without glasses. It was not based on any eyewitness description, regardless of what one might read in a certain blue book. The most recent suspect I've seen who looks like the sketch is "Emmett," seen here at the lower right. He sure looks spot-on to me. The trouble is, I get info on at least one "Emmett" a week and they all can't be the Zodiac. | ||
| Exiled Username: Exiled Registered: 1-2007 |
Tom, I am aware of that info...I was only refering to the original sketches.... The two military pics are somewhat close but with hats on you cant really tell....the other one?????... and since when did these guys(guy) become prominent suspects?.....which of the widely known suspects can compare to Tarrance's close resemblence?... I say none. Once again, I am not claiming in any way that I believe Tarrance is the infamous killer, but he does match the composites. | ||
| Tom_voigt Username: Tom_voigt Registered: 4-2006 |
Exiled, if the pics of Jack you're referring to are those at Kauffman's site, they show an old guy with gray hair. Zodiac was never described in that way. Regardless, you can pick a 1960s yearbook at random and find ample suspects, at least if you are of the belief Zodiac looked exactly like a sketch of someone seen at night from 60 feet away and who was likely wearing a disguise of some sort... | ||
| Kevin Username: Kevin Registered: 10-2006 |
Do the composites match the descriptions in the first place? Do the composites show a heavy set guy around age 30, as most witness statements say? I personally do not think they do. It's hard to think of all the wasted effort that must have been put in towards finding someone who matched a composite that probably isn't close to being accurate. | ||
| Exiled Username: Exiled Registered: 1-2007 |
The idea of the composites not matching the suspect is a possibility....however my interpretation of the witness descriptions is that of a man 5'9 to 5'11, 180 to 200lbs stalky build(not fat or heavy-set), a protruding abdomen(pot-belly) with square/average facial features(not round or chubby). | ||
| Tom_voigt Username: Tom_voigt Registered: 4-2006 |
Exiled, you just described most men in their 30s! In any event, it's a description that would surely match tens of thousands just in the city of SF. But who is to say it's even accurate? I mean, look at the Lake Berryessa composite -- longer hair, parted on the side, no glasses. No guarantee it was the Zodiac, but I'd guess it was. And if so, he changed his appearance nicely in just a couple of weeks. Makes me feel the SF description is all but worthless. | ||
| Tom_voigt Username: Tom_voigt Registered: 4-2006 |
I'm 99% sure that Mike Mageau specifically described a round face, although I don't have the report in front of me. Also, the female Lake Berryessa witnesses described a round face on the suspicious man who spied on them. | ||
| Stew Username: Stew Registered: 12-2006 |
Tom, I think Mageau said a "large face" in the report. | ||
| Exiled Username: Exiled Registered: 1-2007 |
Mike Mageau has changed his description multiple times and is probably the least credible witness of all the victims(nothing personal against Mike, I can only imagine his stress level at the time)....and I'm 99% sure that the female lake berryessa witness(Cecelia Sheperd) never regained consiousness after being attacked and died 2 days later without giving any statement or description of her attacker....that was 2nd hand info from Bryan Hartnell who as you know had a difficult time with his hospital interview and like Mr. Mageau has since changed his account of the incident on at least 2 occasions. These attacks obviously had a profound and traumatic affect on the 2 survivng male victims and it is understandable that they have had a hard time coming to terms with their near death experiences. The most accurate description of "z" has to be of the two officers who stopped him shortly after the Stine murder...police men and women are specificly trained to carefully observe and recall the detailed info and physical descriptions of anyone they encounter during a manhunt(especially after a murder), so it should go with out saying that their description would be more consise and accurate than that of a traumatized victim. | ||
| Greygost Username: Greygost Registered: 10-2006 |
Exiled: Investigators located at least five other people who may have seen the Zodiac the day of LB, including three female students from Pacific Union College. Here's the link (the descriptions go over a couple of pages): http://www.zodiackiller.com/DOJ13.html A doctor from Los Gatos and his son are also mentioned on page 8 of the same DOJ report. | ||
| Exiled Username: Exiled Registered: 1-2007 |
Thank you Greygost for the link. I am familiar with the report and the witness's various descriptions of the suspect. It has always fascinated me that almost no one was able to specificly describe the fugitive in detail(regardless of his supposed desguises). The two policemen who encountered "z", I contend, are the most important witnesses to his overall physical build and facial description and they should be, not only are they(cops) trained to be as meticulous as possible, but these two particular patrolmen were closer to the fugitive than anyone else(with the lone possible exception of Kathy johns, who ironically was quick to point to the very composites described by the 2 officers in question)....Hartnell may have had just as close an encounter and even in broad daylight, but under extreme duress and his attacker was in a well concealed costume(in spite of some reports). I am not sure why many in the so-called "research community" readily dismiss(or ignore) the descriptions and composites by the 2 credible patrolmen....go figure. | ||
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