|Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 4:53 pm: |
As I had mentioned to Tom in our email correspondence I looked into the March 8, 1981 Atlanta letter, (specimen Q27 & Q28) referenced here http://www.zodiackiller.com/FBIZ.html
The handwriting results-although not conclusive
the writer of the zodiac letters should not be eliminated as the writer of Q27 & Q28
Details about the March 8, 1981 letter:
was addressed to 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (WXIA-TV-11). Fingerprints & palm prints were found. I have the exact # somewhere
I have also found a letter sent a week earlier
Postmarked March 2, 1981 Cleveland Ohio.
The content of this letter, with the postmark tells you, the killer is traveling from Ohio to Atlanta. 6 days later someone claiming to be the Zodiac mails the Mar 8th Letter in Atlanta. coincidence?
Details about the March 2, 1981 Letter:
It was mailed in a Press Printed Business Reply Envelope to the Danbury Mint 47 Richards Ave PO Box 5260 Norwalk Conn 06586
The advertisement for the Danbury Mint was for Pewter Vintage Cars- The ad was circulated in the Sunday March 1, 1981 editions of the newspapers you see listed next to the letter. One of those newspapers was the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
I've recently found reference to a third letter
postmarked April 23 1981, Williamsport PA.
The letter begins: "You shall die I'm going...."
It was also mailed in a preprinted envelope
(I have the reference document if you'd like me to post it)
Im posting this here for your opinions, Im intriqued by these 3 letters, sent within a short period of time, with one claiming to be the zodiac.
I stumbled onto the Williamsport letter 2 days ago. I know Darlene & her 1st husband lived briefly in PA, does anyone know if they lived in Williamsport?
Also I could probably get the Danbury Mint ad. I live in NY and one of the newspapers listed is my local paper, so I could find it on microfilm.
I never thought it to be crucial but if anyone would me to find it & post it, just let me know
|Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 5:19 pm: |
These are absolutely fascinating. Of course there's been so much media exposure that copycats are a more common risk than in the 70s, but I've always thought that Z couldn't stop writing, if he were still alive.
They arrested someone for the Atlanta child murders, but in recent years, that conviction has proved to be more shaky than previously believed.
I've also really wondered about the Tylenol Killer. It seemed like a Zodiac sort of thing to do.
|Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 5:52 pm: |
I thought it was kind of a Unabomber thing to do. He claimed he was trying to destroy faith in the worldwide industrial system, and what better way to do it than cause a panic among consumers?
|Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 2:36 am: |
Interestingly, Kaczynski's parents lived in Lombard, Illinois, which is no more than 15 miles from any of the scenes of the Tylenol tampering.
I poked around to see if I could find what Kaczynski was doing in 1982. I found about five or six journal entries from various sources in 1982, but none of them from September or October. As the Unabomber, Ted placed a bomb at Berkeley in July of 1982, but then went underground until mid-1985. I couldn't find any references to his movements at the time, but his brother said he had a vague recollection that Ted might have come to Lombard to visit his parents around 1979 or 1980 or "conceivably at some later date."
Wouldn't it be something if Ted turned out to be the Tylenol Killer? Of course you can't blame the actions of every disaffected slob on Ted, but there's no doubt this kind of crime would have been consonant not only with his self-professed agenda, but with his predilection for "getting off" on widespread public terror.
|Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 7:16 am: |
That is some food for thought, Doug. I wouldn't have made much of it except for his parents being in Lombard. Didn't the authorities claim to have a pretty good suspect at the time, but no concrete evidence? (sorry to be OT here)
|Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 8:00 am: |
That's true, Warren. I haven't read much about the case, but from what I understand they were looking very closely at a guy who worked for some kind of company that distributed Tylenol to two of the stores that were targeted. They found some interesting items in his house, particularly a book supposedly describing how to commit poisonings, or something of the sort. I'm not sure why they let him off--maybe they simply didn't have any hard evidence.
I'm not trying to suggest anything serious by bringing up Kaczynski, but you've got to admit it's a curiosity.
|Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 4:09 pm: |
I hate to mention this because many think that John Doe of Eastlake, Ohio is a horrible suspect. But, when Artny mentions the Ohio connection, it makes me think 1st of John Doe of Eastlake. After reviewing the linked letter, it made me wonder if authorities ever went to John Does last place of employment to obtain any type of hand-writting samples. Does anybody know?
|Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 9:02 pm: |
The Eastlake John Doe connection to Zodiac, and connections to any other persons for that matter, are based solely on speculation. We have no real evidence tying the man to any former identity. I agree the letters are intriguing with respects to Doe, especially considering he may have had ties to Pennsylvania. My own feeling is that this John Doe may be an ATF fugitive. I have some reasons for suspecting this, including Doe's resemblance, but nothing really solid.
The police were sure to find exemplars of his writing, at the very least a signature. Whether they kept any of them for future reference is another question altogether. Some folks in LE either don't know or don't care about saving important data.
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 12:57 am: |
Hello Art from NY:
Here is a list of Zodiacally challenged letters since 1978:
April 24, 1978, letter, which was sent to S. F. Chronicle in San Francisco, CA (http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/hoaxes.html).
May 2, 1978, letter, which is also known as Channel 9 letter, which was sent to KHJ-TV Studios in Los Angeles, CA (http://www.zodiacmurders.com/letters.html).
July 19, 1978, type-written letter, which was allegedly sent to S. F. Chronicle from Los Angeles.
March 2, 1981, letter, which was sent to Danbury Mint in Norwalk, CT (http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/serialstopp er/zodiac/Mar1981letter.jpg).
March 8, 1981, letter, which is also known as Channel 11 letter, which was sent to WXIA-TV in Atlanta, GA (http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/serialstopp er/zodiac/File0001.jpg).
Halloween 1987 letter, which was sent to Vallejo Times-Herald in Vallejo, CA (http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/hoaxes.html).
So what do we have here? April 24, 1978, letter was sent 67 days after John Carr's bloody body was found by the police in Minot, North Dakota. Take the O out of Minot, what do we have? Mint!
March 2, 1981, letter to Danbury Mint was sent on the second anniversary of a phone call to Maury Terry by a Yonkers teenager regarding his knowledge of a group of devil worshippers in Untermyer Park (see p. 235 of the Ultimate Evil).
In this March 2, 1981, letter, the word "BUSSING" was used instead of "BUSING." In his Mt. Diablo letter of June 26, 1970 (http://www.zodiackiller.com/ZButtonLetter.html), Zodiac also used "BUSS" instead of "BUS." It was also in this letter that Zodiac had drawn his dreaded symbol just below the word "CAR." The advertisement in the Sunday newspaper was for pewter vintage cars by Danbury Mint. Was it not?
In Halloween 1987 letter, the words "CAR" and "CARS" were also used. Also, "The Car," which was also known as Death Mobile, was a movie made in 1977 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075809/), which is known as Year of Sam.
In his Bus Bomb letter of November 9, 1969, Zodiac had used the words "death machine" on page 4 and 6. The words "death machine" were also used in Halloween 1987 letter. In each instance, the target remained the same: "Kiddies," who were also the targets in Atlanta.
Six days after mailing of May 2, 1978, letter, on May 8, 1978, David Berkowitz pleaded guilty for his deadly role in eight .44 attacks. Micheal Carr also died in his car in Manhattan on October 4, 1979.
July 19, 1978, letter was sent 153 days after John Carr's death and 78 days after May 2, 1978, letter to Channel 9. If you are familiar with Zodiac mathemagic, then please feel free to crack numeric clues of 153 and 78.
Aside from 911 clue via Channel 9 and Channel 11 letters, it is very hard not to notice the cryptic "CAR" and "CARS" clues in the above letters. Your recent discovery of April 23, 1981, letter should also be examined in further details because it was mailed on the eve of the 3rd anniversary of April 24, 1978, letter. The Danbury Mint letter also came with a cryptic numeric clue of 3.
In conclusion, I strongly encourage you to share more of your research work with the rest of us at this message board. Good luck.
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 7:36 am: |
Bababijan: I recently discovered the letters and I was devastated when I found them, if any one of them had in fact been written by the Zodiac, the letters clear my major suspect who died prior to 1981.
I had seen the letter referenced in the Zodiac FBI file. The results that are in the Zodiac file are barely legible. This is where I got the actual Atlanta address from, the copy is so bad they never scored off the address (they probably couldnt read it either) So I figured maybe the Atlanta file would have a clearer copier, and it did, and I saw the other letters referenced
The Atlanta letter-March 2, 1981-fingerprints & palm prints did not match Wayne Williams (I have copies of the results). Williams had traveled frequently to California as a talent scout and had done business with California Modeling Agencies
With the exception of the Cleveland Letter, no others are in the FBI file. The chances of getting the letters from Atlanta are slim, as 5 of the murder cases have been reopened.
The Williamsport letter contained a threat to President Reagan on the back of the envelope. I immediately thought Darlene & her first husband had lived in Williamsport,PA, but I can't find anything in my notes or any reports that indicates that to be true. I have a friend of who is an investigator for a well known Law Office, doing background checks, with the hope of finding out which city in PA they lived in.
If I find they lived in Williamsport, placing an ad in the newspaper asking anyone who may have known them to contact me
Tommyt: are you using John Doe as a fictitious or actual name? The name Bobby Doe was on the Cleveland Letter
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 9:03 am: |
FBI Letter June 8, 1981
Fingerprints on envelope, Q27 & letter Q28
bearing signature "Zodiac" are not the Fingerprints of Wayne Williams
FBI Letter June 9, 1981
Latent Palm print on letter,Q28 bearing the signature "Zodiac" are not palm prints of Wayne Williams
FBI Acknowledgement of Williamsport PA envelope postmarked 4/28/1981 and a handwritten letter
also shows: the envelope was pre addressed and postage paid, printed in red ink (Page 1 of 2)
1. Red ink pre addressed envelope was from the unnamed companies NY Office
2. letter contained a threat to the person reading it
3. reversed side of the envelope contains a threat to President Ronald Reagan
4. Return address had been erased, and the name "Bobby Doe" had been added over the erased impressions
FBI Acknowledgement Letter of Letter Postmarked Cleveland Ohio Mar 2, 1981 pre printed address to the Danbury Mint
FBI Acknowledgement of Williamsport PA 23 April 1981
1. letter started "You shall Die I'm going...."
2. return address had obliterated writing, a partial interpretation may be "y abuse"
Atalanta letter was signed "Zodiac" and claiming to be responsible for the child murders in Atlanta. FBI requested to compare letter with other Zodiac letters
Fingerprints on March 2, 1981 Letter & Envelope
9 fingerprints & 2 palm prints on envelope
48 fingerprints & 1 palm print on letter
Fingerprint/Palm Print Elimination of two persons known to have handled the letter
(Leaving 14 fingerprints & 1 palm print unidentifed)
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 9:09 am: |
"Tommyt: are you using John Doe as a fictitious or actual name? The name Bobby Doe was on the Cleveland Letter"
Strike that: The name Bobby Doe was on the Williamsport letter
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 4:18 pm: |
I live near Williamsport, and will do some amateur checking around. Anything's possible. Willie Wolfe of the SLA was from Emmaus, Patty Hearst and friends had a "safe" farmhouse north of my hometown, and NJ State Trooper, Phillip Lamonico, was shot near the Delaware River Bridge by members of the BLA escaping CA back in the 80's.
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 9:00 am: |
Nice work, baba and Artny. I tend to be skeptical about any letters after the 1974 Exorcist letter but it's nice to have a catalogue of later possible Z letters.
In my mind, it's worthwhile to ask why Z would have been motivated to write any of these letters. Why would he want to take responsibility for the Atlanta child murders, whether or not he committed them? What would he have to gain by the continued communication?
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 11:39 pm: |
Hello Art from NY:
One person who might be willing to help you along is Roy Innis. He is the national chairman for the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE). Innis might even help you to get all 1981 letters and the mailing envelopes.
In his Ultimate Evil at p. 394, Maury Terry briefly reported that Innis had asked him to help solve Atlanta child murders because Innis and his staff had found certain evidence that Wayne Bertram Williams had acted in concert with others. According to Terry, a female informant had alleged to be a former member of a satanic group, which was responsible for the Atlanta child murders.
In the mean time, here is a list of Zodiacally challenged letters, which were all mailed on a single day (30 April 1967) to:
Riverside Police Department
Here is a list of Zodiacally confirmed letters, which were all mailed on a single day (31 July 1969) to:
San Francisco Chronicle
San Francisco Examiner
As I listed in my previous post, so far, 1978 gave us three Zodiacally challenged letters. Three years later, the same thing happened again. These records will stand as it is until someone can come up with another possible Zodiac letter for either year to tilt the cryptic trinity balance. Even if that ever happens, so what?
Also, have you ever noticed that Hollyweird had picked March 2, 2007, as the projected opening date for the upcoming Zodiac movie? This date will coincide with 26th anniversary of the cancellation of Danbury Mint Letter. The 26th letter of English alphabet is Z, which was used by Zodiac in his confirmed Halloween card sent to Paul Avery in late October 1970.
The mailing envelope for Danbury Mint letter was postmarked March 2, 1981, which was a Monday. However, the letter could have been deposited in the afternoon of Sunday, March 1, 1981, which magically coincided with 49th anniversary of the kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh's baby. The use of the advertisement materials from a Sunday newspaper was an important clue for this well-known American tragedy. Journalist Henry Louis Mencken called it, "the biggest story since the resurrection." Too bad that he is not around to hear its final chapter as it begins to unfold from this point on.
A ransom note was left behind on a windowsill by the kidnapper or the kidnappers. Lindbergh did not touch this note until the police arrived. This note began and ended with cryptic numeric ID clues of 5./8 and 3 holes. In between, the note asked for $50,000.00 for the safe return of Lindbergh's baby.
Dr. John Francis Condon, a semi-retired New York City teacher, wrote an open letter to the kidnappers in order to offer his help as an intermediary negotiator. Thereafter, on March 8, 1932, Bronx Home News published Dr. Condon's letter.
A day later, on March 9, 1932, a New York City cab driver named Raymond Perrone delivered a note for Dr. Condon, which was given to him by an unknown man.
The alleged Zodiac letter of March 8, 1981, was sent to magically coincide with the 49th anniversary of the publication of Dr. Condon's letter. It also magically coincided with the eve of the 49th anniversary of the delivery of the kidnapers' note by the cab driver.
Eventually, Charles Lindbergh and Dr. Condon delivered only a sum of $50,000 to a man who was waiting for them in St. Raymond Cemetery. In return, the so-called "Cemetery John" gave them a note with information as to where to find the baby boy.
The info proved to be bogus and the missing baby boy remained unaccounted for. On May 12, 1932, the badly decomposed body of a toddler was found by a delivery truck driver named William Allen in the wooded areas of Mt. Rose Road in Hopewell, New Jersey, just a few miles from Lindbergh's mansion. Lindbergh was able to quickly identify the remains as that of his missing son. A subsequent autopsy which was performed by Dr. Walter H. Swayze showed that Lindbergh's baby boy had died due to external force to his head, which had caused his skull to badly fracture. One crack was in the shape of a letter Y. Does that cryptic "Y ABUSE" from the mailing envelope for the letter of April 23, 1981, ring a bell?
As a cryptic "hope" clue, Edward Hope Smith, 14, was kidnapped on July 21, 1979, he was later shot and his body was dumped in a wooded area near Niskey Lake Road, where his remains was found on July 28, 1979.
In between, some more ransom notes were mailed from Brooklyn, New York, which lead the police to believe that the kidnapper or kidnappers were operating from somewhere in the city. Eventually, a ten dollar gold certificate with a license plate number for a "CAR" lead FBI to a German immigrant named Bruno Richard Hauptmann, who was arrested on September 19, 1932. Hauptmann lived in the Bronx with his wife and son.
During the trial, Charles Lindberg and Dr. Condon identified Hauptmann as "Cemetery John." The cab driver also identified him as the guy who gave him the note to deliver to Dr. Condon on March 9, 1932.
On February 14, 1935, Hauptmann was convicted for kidnapping and murdering Lindbergh's baby boy. As such, he was sentenced to death by electrocution, which was carried out on April 3, 1936.
Charles Lindberg was born on February 4, 1902, in Detroit, Michigan. Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) kidnapped Patricia Hearst on February 4, 1974, which magically coincided with Lindbergh's 72nd birthday. It was his last birthday too. For he died in Hawaii on August 26, 1974 due to cancer.
Ten days later, on February 14, 1974, the SLA letter was sent to San Francisco Chronicle. The mailing of this letter was magically timed to coincide with the 39th anniversary of Hauptmann's conviction.
All along Hauptmann maintained that he was innocent. Also, due to badly decomposed body of Lindbergh's baby, Dr. Swazye only could estimate that the the baby boy was dead for a few months. However, it is my opinion that Lindbergh's baby was ritualistically sacrificed on March 13, 1932, which magicaly coincided with 21st birthday of L. Ron Hubbard.
By using Zodiac mathemagic, the numeric ID clue of 58 can be cracked as ZODIAC. Also, the cryptic alphanumeric clue of 3 holes or three holes can be cracked as L. RON HUBBARD.
Around 12:15 am, on June 5, 1968, Ace Security guard Thane Eugene Cesar left 3 holes in the back of RFK's coat with his H & R 9 shot .22 caliber pistol bearing serial no. Y13332, which can be cracked as 13 March 32. I have posted a copy of Temple of Set's ransom note of March 1, 1932, and an infrared photo of RFK's coat with 3 holes in the back of it at my web site at: http://groups.msn.com/zodiacnetwork
In 1975, a Temple of Set was founded by Dr. Michael Aquino as an offshoot of Church of Satan. However, L. Ron Hubbard was able to covertly market Temple of Set with his Church of Scientology not only here in America but also all over the world. In fact, by using Zodiac Mathemagic, Church of Scientology can be easily cracked as Temple of Set.
On September 6, 1968, Cesar sold this pistol to one Jim Golden for $15. Thereafter, on the second anniversary of this golden gun deal, Donna Ann Lass, a lake Tahoe nurse, mysteriously vanished from the face of the earth. In December 1974, a Christmas card was received by Donna Lass' sister, Ms. Mary Pilker. In this card, the Guardians of Set was encrypted as Guardian of the pines.
Robert Graysmith might get to have the last laugh if Arthur Leigh Allen is linked to Atlanta child murders. Still, that would not make him a Zodiac killer in California regardless of 1981 letters. There are many ways to become a Zodiac villain in order to help the force to ooze gore for more.
In my opinion, the Zodiac case in Atlanta is very complex case. Wayne Williams was caught because the police got lucky that night. If San Francisco police had a similar luck, then we would not be here now. So good luck once again.
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 12:12 am: |
The Doe I refer to is Joseph Newton Chandler III
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 8:01 am: |
I think my head is about to explode.
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 8:54 am: |
I've always had my doubts that the baby found was Lindbergh's and that Haupman was the perp. He was an expert carpenter and the ladder obviously wasn't made by an expert. He testified about a guy named Fish who even the Governor of New Jersy said was a better POI. I do believe Cesar was the perp in the RFK one. He was only hired for the night and RFK grabbed his tie as evidence. Sirhan never came close and too many bullets unaccounted for. But this is for another thread.Very interesting dates of coincidenses none the less. Keep digging, you may be on to something.
|Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 12:22 pm: |
Ratman, it is very hard to stay on topic in this thread with very little info we have regarding these three 1981 letters. Hopefully, as time goes on, we may get more info on them.
In the mean time, I am waiting for Tom to give me the permission to launch my proposed thread, "Lindbergh's Baby Kidnapping." So stay tuned!
|Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 3:46 pm: |
Bababijan: Actually one of the Atlanta victims went missing on March 2nd as well. I have never really paid to much attention to the dates & times or whether they had any significance.
|Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 5:01 pm: |
Hello Art from NY:
Did I try to figure out the Danbury Mint letter of March 2, 1981, by using "BUSS" as its main clue? I did.
Zodiac used "buss" in his Mt. Diablo letter of June 26, 1970, which was sent 21 days after 2nd anniversary of RFK hit and 4 days after 40th birthday anniversary of Lindbergh's baby boy.
Zodiac used "busses" in page 6/6 of his Bus Bomb letter of November 9, 1969, which was 11 days before 44th birthday anniversary of RFK. November 9 can be written as 11 9, or, after reversing it, we have 9 11. Channel 9 and Channel 11 letters? Do they ring a bell? Also, cryptic numeric clue of 6/6 can be easily cracked as "CHARLES LINDBERGH MURDER" by applying Zodiac mathemagic.
In Mt. Diablo letter, message board member Sean O'Brien had also discovered Zodiac's cryptic clue of "upset" or "set up," which can also be cracked as "TEMPLE OF SET."
RFK was assassinated 17 days before 38th birthday anniversary of Charles Augustus Lindbergh, Jr. In his Mt. Diablo letter, Zodiac used a numeral 12, which can be reversed as numeral 21. He also used that dreaded .38 clue. Similarly, the three RFK numeric clues of 17, 21, and 44 can be cracked as "TEMPLE OF SET."
The Bus Bomb letter of April 20, 1970, was sent 17 days after 34th anniversary of the electrocution of Richard Bruno Hauptmann. After roman conversion, "BRVNO" can be numeralized as 71, which can be reversed as numeral 17.
Did I ever notice that the Danbury Mint letter has a total of 17 words and characters? I did.
After deghosting the Danbury Mint letter, I was also able to crack it. The solution just happened to have a total of 17 letters and characters. Here it is:
BOB: FIND A BUS BOMB.
The Danbury Mint letter can be reduced to the following Zodiac ABC matrix, which can be solved to get the above solution. Do not miss the application of numerals 21 and 4 in this Zodiac matrix. It is done by a magical design.
1 A A
2 B B
4 C C
Did I notice that the Danbury Mint letter had only 7 lines? I did.
In the early morning of June 22, 1980, LaToyna Wilson was snatched from her home after an unknown medieval goon had managed to enter into her bedroom after removing the screen from a window. LaToyna was kidnapped on the eve of her 7th birthday. This child snatching event was magically timed to coincide with the 50th birthday anniversary of Lindbergh's baby.
Around mid October 1980, the searchers found LaTonya's skeltal remains. Cause of death? Unknown.
I mentioned Edward "Hope" Smith because he was considered as the first victim. Reportedly, he was shot with a .22 caliber handgun. RFK was hit with a .22. Zodiac's initial double hit on Lake Herman Road (LHR => LRH) was also carried out with a .22.
I am pressed for time now. As soon as I get a chance, I will post a gif file at my web page discussing my code work for the Danbury Mint letter in further deatils.
In the mean time, I am not leaving you there hanging high and dry. Check the picture album titled "Lindburgh's Baby Kidnapping" for the general method of deghosting a Zodiac letter. Here is the link: http://groups.msn.com/zodiacnetwork
I have also realized that with my limited resources, I can not effectively present my views on this Zodiac case at two different online outfits. I thank you for publicizing your research at this message board. I also thank Tom for making things happen while others in positions chose to sleep at wheels because it was more convenient.
Please feel free to join Zodiac Network.