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Artny
Username: Artny

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:26 am:   

I could only figure two names that actually fit in the cipher, although I havent really tried:
Eagle Berenger
Eagle Derenger

But I cant find any reference to persons with this name.
Has anyone ever come up with any other solutions?
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:42 am:   

At one point I thought I had.
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 2:12 pm:   

Alfred E Neuman

I came up with that back in 1998 or so and sent it to a certain author, who later published it. Can't recall if I was given credit, but somehow I expect not.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 5:23 pm:   

I would think this would be an ideal mini-cipher to apply some kind of computer deciphering program. There are a finite number of answers that would make any sense at all. Would any of them be Z-relevant?

Might be a good challenge for the gentleman who solved Ray's cipher to try...
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 5:48 pm:   

I believe the cipher is too short to allow for a definite solution.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:28 pm:   

Laurence V Cave fits perfectly.
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Seagull
Username: Seagull

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:30 pm:   

Bob Beausoleil also fits perfectly.
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Va_trent
Username: Va_trent

Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:54 pm:   

With the possible inclusion of numbers and/or punctuation, I agree that rendering, or recognizing the only correct solution would be a long shot. After all, without a key, there is no way to know what name/message the cipher/code is intended to reveal.

However, supposing it is indeed a substitution cipher, I would be interested to see all of the possible letter combinations that fit. Not only names, but phrases, etc. I have several fill-in-the-blank guesswork "solutions" of my own, but I am wayyyy too lazy to take on a project with the intention of providing every possible message. I'd love to see any program capable of doing such things automatically.

I cannot think of any good reason for an habitual murderer, sane or not, who claims he is in disguise when he does his thing and that he uses airplane glue on his fingertips, to give his real name to the police, encrypted or not. Based mainly on his tendency to taunt and intimidate, and the literary allusions sprinkled throughout his letters, it is my opinion that a solution using the simple substitution may ultimately reveal a phrase of some sort, instead of a name. Possibly more indirect references... perhaps hinting at a name.

In no way am I presenting this as the solution, but as an example of such a process, the hypothetical solution "intrototomtit" or "intro to tom tit" overlaps perfectly. Based on zodiacs fondness of quoting the Mikado, I'd refer to the song, again. As usual. So maybe his name is Tom T!t. Or Dicky Byrd. Or Tom Byrd. Or... Dicky T!t.

We have no key, so I cannot disprove the above "solution", haha. If he intended for it to be deciphered at all, it may possibly either be tied to the final solution of the 340, or perhaps there are ambiguous clues embedded somewhere within his correspondence that point to a key.

I agree with Tom that its way too short. But if anyone finds a program that will automatically produce letter combinations relative to the code, please post it so I can get addicted to it and bring myself another step closer to a need for corrective eyewear.
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Zen_len
Username: Zen_len

Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:46 pm:   

If it isn't just gibberish meant to distract, the cipher would most certainly be a phrase and not a name or single word. In which case, the possibilities (with misspellings) are nearly infinite.

To give you an idea, here are some 13-letter phrases that could be Z-related:

My name is --

NOT HERE TO READ
I SHALL NOT TELL
HIDDEN FROM YOU
NOT WRITEN HERE
NOT YOURS TO KNO
ANONYMOUS NAME
MY NAME UNKNOWN
THE SLAVE TAKER
WILL KILL AGAIN

Though, it would be interesting if the cipher did contain a phrase and that the symbols matched the other ciphers. In other words, Zodiac was offering a key to his other ciphers, provided you could guess his 13-letter phrase.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:49 pm:   

My point exactly, Ed.

It is absolutely too short to derive a definitive solution. There are only four repeating symbols (A,N,M, cirled8) but a computer program could yield a little list of conceivably meaningful solutions to choose from.

There could be hundreds or thousands, who knows, but perhaps a few of those might have Z-significance. Maybe it would give some indication whether Z was actually using a substitution cipher?

I just think that the My name is... cipher is a juicy target because of its seeming simplicity and promise that it would reveal his identity. Do I think Z would give his name in this cipher or any other? Not in a million years...
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   

Oops...

Replace "Ed" with "Va_trent". The response was so logical, I thought it came from Ed, lol.

Zen, I didn't check to see if those fit but those are more in line with what I would expect to find after solving a Z cipher. I hope I'm wrong...
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Zen_len
Username: Zen_len

Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:01 pm:   

One other important, if obvious, note. It's 13 letters long. Not 12, not 14, not 29. It's unlucky, cursed, scary number 13. Which would lean more toward gibberish than real.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   

My own solution to the cipher was not forced. In other words, I didn't pore over it with the idea of finding out ways to associate Kaczynski's name with it. I got the idea serendipitously when I came across a line of mathematical formulation from Kaczynski's doctoral dissertation that contained virtually the same elements as the cipher. Notice Kaczynski's work contains the same letters as the cipher: A, e, n, m, k, plus a lower-case "L" that resembles the Aries symbol and multiple instances of the symbol for infinity.
sets_and_cipher
I wondered whether the cipher had anything to do with set addition, so I tried it, and got a good result.
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Va_trent
Username: Va_trent

Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:17 pm:   

In fact, it's just one big thirteenth.

And zodiac's 13th letter is an excellent example of distorted Mikado allusion, of course.

Plot thickens.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   

Doug,

That comparison is very provocative but how is it a solution? Empty taunting by Kaczynski loosely based on a mathematical equation? I'm not trying to diss the comparison- I like it- but Z's cipher gives no allusion to a mathematical equation.

What would the point of the cipher have been in Ted's mind?

Do you know what his equation means or was trying to explain?
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:29 am:   

The point of the cipher, Deoxys, would have followed the pattern used by both Zodiac and Kaczynski of offering teasing "clues" to the authorities, regarding their personalities, their motivations, and their whereabouts, and doing it in a safe way that strokes their own fancies but offers virtually nothing to the authorities, who get some busy work to do, but nothing else.

Consider the 9-digit code that Kaczynski used to authenticate his Unabomber missives. Now, this resembles a social security number, and there was an actual person who owned it, though he was never connected to Kaczynski. I feel pretty safe in saying that the code did indeed mean something to Kaczynski; that he knows what it meant, and he doesn't really care whether anyone ever found out or ever will find out. His Unabomber letters were riddled with little clues of this sort, and we know this only because we know him. Had he never been caught, they would have remained inscrutable.

I call this as a meta-code (actually Michael Butterfield introduced me to the term), or a code within a cipher. It might very well be that the 13 symbols in and of themselves contain a regular encryption, though that wouldn't necessarily be so. And the solution proposed here might actually be the result of coincidence, since as I've pointed out elsewhere, the name THEODORE KACZYNSKI contains all the letters in the words THE ZODIAC. Given, however, the similitude between the equation and the encryption, I think coincidence is far less likely, because with two such elements you're multiplying the probabilities of each one occurring by chance.

I haven't a clue what he was trying to accomplish with the equation, but then his former faculty advisor told the media that no more than ten or so people in the country would have understood the dissertation generally.

As an item of interest, here's a math puzzle that Kaczynski submitted to Mathematical Monthly at some point early in 1970:

Suppose we have a supply of matches of unit length. Let there be given a square sheet of cardboard, n units on a side. Let the sheet be divided by lines into n[squared] little squares. The problem is to place matches on the cardboard in such a way that: a) each match covers a side of one of the little squares, and b) each of the little squares has exactly two of its sides covered by matches. (Matches are not allowed to be placed on the edge of the cardboard.) For what value of n does the problem have a solution?

Look at it this way: Ted Kaczynski could have made a cipher out of a ham sandwich.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:56 am:   

"The point of the cipher, Deoxys, would have followed the pattern used by both Zodiac and Kaczynski of offering teasing "clues" to the authorities, regarding their personalities, their motivations, and their whereabouts, and doing it in a safe way that strokes their own fancies but offers virtually nothing to the authorities, who get some busy work to do, but nothing else."

Man, I totally agree with that. Study BTK, Doug. He did much the same thing only much clumsier. BTK, IMO, was a rabid Zodiaphile and perhaps revealed some of Z's trade secrets by his mistakes.

The difficult part, IMO, is distinguishing the actual "clews" from diversion and it is the reason why Z, barring a confession, at this point will never be caught, IMO.

Keep working... I'm going on sabbatical from posting for awhile.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:07 am:   

I agree about BTK, Deoxys. He was fairly controlled, but not too bright, as evidenced by the way in which he was finally caught.
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Va_trent
Username: Va_trent

Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:48 am:   

Here is Doug's post from the Zodiac Codes section of the board.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cg i?tpc=29&post=12593#POST12593
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 6:57 pm:   

I count 10 not 13. The three 8's that some believe are Taurus signs, I believe are 8's. I used the Hardens solved codes as my rosettastone. Doing this you can come up with many names for sure. I came up with R.Hernandez. I am reading M.Kellehers book and read that there are three letters that seem to stand out, they are H N D. Those letters jumped off the page to me as Her Nan Dez. The first three letters in the 340 cipher is also HER. I also can see, My name kane. Remember that the z used 9 other letters for the letter S alone.
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Artny
Username: Artny

Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:31 pm:   

Alfred E Neuman

Thats the boy on the cover of MAD magazine,
thats pretty good, I would accept that as
the solution.

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