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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 5:47 pm:   

It is known that Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia, moved from Medford, Massachussetts, to live with her father, Cleo, who was at that time living in Vallejo and working at Mare Island. There was a Mrs. Elizabeth Short living in Vallejo at 757 4th Street in the 1940's, but Short was obviously her married name, so she was not the Black Dahlia. I found no record of Cleo Short (the Vallejo Polk's directories for 1943-46 are missing), so I wasn't sure I could find him.

According to The Black Dahlia Files by Don Wolfe, Cleo was living with a Mrs. Yanke on Nebraska Street. A check of the 1942 Polk's for Vallejo showed that an Ernest and Patricia Yanke did in fact live in Vallejo. He was a machinist at the Navy Yard, and presumably Cleo rented a room from them. Their home was at 1237 Nebraska Street, and that must have been the temporary residence of Cleo Short and his 3rd daughter, Beth.

What is extremely fascinating about that address is that it is directly across the street from St. Basil's Catholic Church (which I attended on occasion many years ago), and it is 0.4 miles (maybe 4-5 blocks) from 32 Fresno Street, where Zodiac suspect Art Allen would live within the next few years (I have not been able to pinpoint when they moved to Vallejo, since they do not appear in the 1942 Polk's but do in the 1947).

It would seem that the location of the Black Dahlia's residence in Vallejo was all but unknown until today.
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Etphoto
Username: Etphoto

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   

Nothing to do with Z, but the Black Dahlia case has always intrigued me. Like the "Jack the Ripper" case, The Black Dahlia will probably never be solved since all the players are probably dead.

ET
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George
Username: George

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   

Agreed. Initially impressed with suspect "Arnold Smith," from Severed, after a couple of rereadings he's of less interest to me. The book is perhaps still the best one on the murder, as it evokes post-War LA with atmospheric brio. I also see why Red Manley was grilled as much as he was, but he wasn't her killer, IMO.

I'd like more data as to why Beth spent a significant amount of time in San Diego shortly before her death.
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Bookworm
Username: Bookworm

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 6:40 pm:   

There is a movie coming out September 15th on the "Black Dahlia".
http://www.theblackdahliamovie.net/
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 9:21 am:   

Trailer:

http://www.worstpreviews.com/media.php?id=169&plac e=trailer
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Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 3:39 pm:   

"The Black Dahlia" movie is based on James Ellroy's book which is a great read if anybody was curious. The Dahlia murder is only a subplot and the story is largely about two fictional LAPD detectives during the era.

Fans of LA Confidential are sure to dig this flick...but like I hinted before...ya just may want to read the book first just to see if the movie does it any justice.
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Tom_voigt
Username: Tom_voigt

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 11:25 pm:   

Cold Case Files: The Black Dahlia --

NEW EPISODE

Sept. 9 (Saturday), 2006 at 9 pm (PT/ET)
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Etphoto
Username: Etphoto

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 10:55 am:   

Tom . . I guess the Black Dahlia case could be considered cold. :-)

ET
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 1:13 pm:   

1-15-2007 will be the 60th anniversary of when Beth Short's body was found. BTW, in Ethan Allen's obituary, "Death Takes E.W. Allen" (Vallejo Times-Herald, 3-19-1971, p. 2), it says that, "... he was a Vallejo resident for 25 years." That means the Allens moved to Vallejo in 1946. However, on his death certificate, there is an entry for how long he lived in Alameda County (where he died), which was 17 days. Next to it is an entry for how long he lived in California, which was 27 years (since 1944). That means that the Allens moved to Vallejo 2 years after moving to California (I have no idea where they were before then).

Either way, Beth Short briefly lived at 1237 Nebraska Street some 3 years before the Allens moved to 32 Fresno Street, just a few blocks away...
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Ratman
Username: Ratman

Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 2:14 pm:   

I watch the 'cold case files' last night and
thought it was well done. The host Bill Kurtis sp.? spent much time with Steve Hodel,
author of 'The Black Dahlia Avenger' at the old Franklin house where the Hodels lived at the time and went over his evidence that he believes implicates his father for her and other women's murders.Well presented evidence I thought of comparing known pictures with ones his father had.
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Scott_ben
Username: Scott_ben

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   

I used to live in LA and met a guy there who told me Elizabeth Short had a birth defect which prevented her from having normal sex. We were actually discussing the book because he had suggested I read it. He had been doing research on the case and he believed Miss Short was killed because of this birth defect. That she was a tease and then the killer discover not only would she not have sex with him but couldn't and this drove him to kill her. It didn't alot of sense to me at the time but he was sure about the defect. As I have never seen it mentioned anywhere, I was wondering if anybody else had heard of it.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 2:25 pm:   

It may have been a genital birth defect such as pseudohermaphrodite with an enlarged clitoris that could have been confused for a small penis and the killer thought she was a transvestite and killed her out of rage thinking it she was a man impersonating a woman.
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 3:37 pm:   

Actually Johno, from the snippets I've read in books, her "birth defect" was different. It turns out that her vaginal opening was extremely small. Not just "tight", but so small that she physically couldn't have intercourse with a man, no matter what his size. Not even me (just kidding!!)

It seems likely that this rare condition may have had something to do with her murder, but we'll never know. Obviously the killer sounds like he already had just a tiny tendancy toward violence already.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 4:11 pm:   

When she was living with her father in Vallejo for a year before she moved to LA he gave her the boot because she was staying out all night and hanging around bars with sailors.
If she was getting enough of a reputation that her father asked her to leave she must have been having intimate relations with many different men but never got into any kind of trouble with them for not having sex with them other than oral.
She also had been married. I just wonder if there is any truth to this so-called birth defect with her female genetailia whatever it was.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 5:38 pm:   

Interesting. Sounds like her death could have been precipitated by some kind of sexual aberration or problem. Johno, do they give the names of any of the bars she was hanging around in the Vallejo area?

I don't know much about the case, but have an interest because my uncle was on submarines, and in Vallejo in 1946 at Mare Island. And of course, I lived there at the time of Ethan Allen's death, but was not aware of the Allen connection, or that the Black Dahlia had lived in Vallejo.
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Jim_t
Username: Jim_t

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 6:42 pm:   

The Cold Case show on A&E had some interesting stuff, the newspaper the BD letter was made from, that was cut from the entertainment section. All the evidence the LAPD lost when they moved but the indepent investagion still had their evidence but wouldnt let Hodell look at because he had an agenda. The house where Pinkers the forensic investagor for LAPD had alot of old files and photos but nothing on the BD.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 6:57 pm:   

This girl got around and dated lot's of guys (mostly servicemen).
She dropped out of high school her sophomore year and in 1940-41 she spent her summers in Medford Mass and winters in Miami. In Miami she worked as a theater usher and a waitress.
In 1942 she lived in Vallejo. Dated sailors and was going to bars even though she was underage.
In 1943 she lived with a GI at the Camp Cooke Army base near LA.
In 1943 she moved to Santa Barbara.
In 1944-45 she returned to Medford and again spent her summers in Medford and winters in Miami where she dated servicemen exclusively and two regularly.
In 1946 she left Medford to live in Miami year round but left Miami for Indianapolis then to Chicago in 1947 then to Long Beach then to Hollywood then to San Diego and then back to Hollywood where she was planning on returning to Chicago when she was killed.
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Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:44 pm:   

Whoever said she had an abnormal genital region is full of BS. That is a myth commonly associated w/ the case....but a very untrue one at that.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 12:42 am:   

I don't think she lived in Vallejo all that long either. Just a week or so before moving to LA, apparently.
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Ratman
Username: Ratman

Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 8:33 am:   

From the reports I've read her genital area was considered normal by the doctor who did the autopsy and LE found 3 men who had intercourse with her although all claimed she had no pleasure whatsoever and one even said that she told him never again so that;s why he didn't see her again. He was a suspect but cleared. So her problem may have been psychological.
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 10:17 am:   

Sorry, "Wrecknball", but whoever said she had an abnormal genital region was not "full of BS". You can easily get this fact from many different sources & books on the Black Dhalia.

Here's one from the Crime Library

"...the vagina, which reportedly was not fully formed,..."(http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famo us/dahlia_profile/2.html)

and a couple pages later,

The Black Dhalia "had the reputation of a tease who did not engage in sexual intercourse, but would freely perform oral sex. This may have been due to her apparent genital deformity." (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famo us/dahlia_profile/4.html)
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Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 3:18 pm:   

Vscantu,
Ellroy and Harnisch basically refute most of what the Crime Library claims. In fact, there isn't any evidence that she performed oral sex on anyone.

Maybe you shouldn't rely on one source for your info. Like I said, many sources not directly tied to the case have made many innacuracies when reporting the case and rumor in some instances has taken the place of fact.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 6:07 pm:   

I read some bio material today. She lived in Vallejo in 1943 at the age of 19. Interesting that she worked at Vandenburg, and lived there or in Lompoc. She partied in Santa Barbara too, as she was arrested there.

My uncle may have been at Mare Island in 43--after all, he served during the war years. I'm not sure of the dates he was there. I have a pic of him and his new bride(my mom's sister), standing at a Giant Redwood tree in Sonoma County, with a road going thru the tree!

Genital deformities or not, I have a feeling Beth was very sexually active.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 6:30 pm:   

It seems that much of the disinformation on Beth Short comes from John Gilmore's Severed. Larry Harnisch has researched and refuted much of what Gilmore wrote. For instance, Detective Herman Willis is the one who claimed in Severed that Beth Short's genitals were deformed or underdeveloped or whatever, but Harnisch has been unable to locate this man and, in fact, his name apparently does not appear anywhere in any of the files on the Black Dahlia, his name does not appear in any LA directory for the time, and LAPD has no record of him whatsoever. He appears to be a complete fabrication on Gilmore's part, and as Harnisch says, "Severed is 25% mistakes and 50% fiction." Gilmore would appear to be the Robert Graysmith of the Black Dahlia case.
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 9:42 am:   

Wrecknball: What makes you think I only relied on 1 source? To bolster my point, I merely quoted 2 sections from the most popular 'true crime' site on the internet. However, in your original rude & accusatory post, you yourself site ZERO SOURCES. Your entire post consisted of:

"Whoever said she had an abnormal genital region is full of BS. That is a myth commonly associated w/ the case, but a very untrue one at that."

Ed: As usual, excellent research into the subject of The Black Dhalia's supposed genital abnormality. If you looked into it & found no proof, that pretty much settles it in my book!
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Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 1:37 pm:   

Vscantu, I cited Ellroy and Harnisch....which is exactly TWO SOURCES.
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 3:15 pm:   

Wrecknball: True. I was referring to your original post, which I quoted above, where you first refuted that the Black Dhalia had an irregular vaginal region.

In any case, I'd now have to agree with your general point, if not your method of telling it: That the "genital abnormality" angle is probably not true. Even tho' I'd read it in at least 1 book & on the Crime Library web site.

My conclusion is based on the fact that ED NEIL is the best true crime researcher I've ever known. This guy is a relentless pit bull when it comes to tracking down sources & statistics.

He'll go to the ends of the earth (or the end of his gas tank) to find if a source is true. And if he can't find documentation for her deformed genital region, it must not exist!
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 5:29 pm:   

Ed is good, I agree.

But who the hell would cut a body in half like that, and still have time to pose it?
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 5:45 pm:   

According to the Los Angeles District Attorney file on the murder of Elizabeth Short it says, "According to the autopsy surgeon her sex organs indicated female trouble."
It also quotes the autopsy report in saying, "Tubes, ovaries and cul de sac are intact" but says there was a "Female disorder."
It goes on to say, "The uterus is small and no pregnancy is apparent."
The DA file also notes on her sexual activity of her known past, "She would refuse to have sexual intercourse by telling them she was a virgin or that she was engaged or married. There were three known men who did have sexual intercourse with her and according to them she got no pleasure out of this act. One man stated she would not go out with him again."

So it appears that she was capable of sexual intercourse but there was some problem that caused this to be possibly painful to her.

Her sister Muriel said that her only obvious health problem was that she was asthmatic and being in Florida and California helped her asthma.
Muriel Short in an interview after her sister's death did shed a little more light on Bette's female problems when she said, "Bette had a large bottle of Pinkham pills that she took for female complaints, but I didn't dare ask mama what was wrong. We were brought up old-fashioned and never discussed sex with our mother. When I no longer saw the bottle I assumed Bette's problem had cleared up."

Pinkham's pills were a widely common herbal medicine that were used by women suffering from menstral cramps. They were also used occasionally as pharmecuetically induced self-abortions.
The autopsy surgeon in his comments doesn't seem to indicate that there was evidence that Elizabeth Short at one time induced an abortion that left some damage so it would seem that she was using these pills for their intended purpose of severe menstral cramps.
The autopsy report of "Female disorder" and Female trouble" and the sister's rememberance of "Female complaints" indicate that there was something wrong with reproductive system. So it doesn't appear she had any freakish disorder but something was wrong and there was some kind of blockage that made menstration and sex painful.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 6:17 pm:   

I appreciate the kudos, Victor, but I was referring to Larry Harnisch's research; he was the guy who checked out Gilmore's "research" and has found it sorely lacking, much like we have discovered with Yellow Book and his fabrications. Considering Harnisch is the only person who has thus far linked Beth Short to the location she was found in, I'd place more faith in his research than Gilmore's, who seems to have a problem distinguishing fantasy from reality.

Beth Short's sister, who was living in California, knew Barbara Lindgren who signed her marriage license as a witness, and she lived at 3959 S Norton Avenue, precisely one block south of the empty lot where Beth's body was found. Could be a coincidence, but Beth was also last seen at the Biltmore Hotel, 5 blocks away from the office of Dr. Walter Bailey, who just so happened to be Barbara Lindgren's father...
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Wrecknball
Username: Wrecknball

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 10:02 pm:   

Yeah Eddie...good synopsis. Don't know if you've seen it but Ellroy and Harnisch give a great discertation of the Bayley connection in James Ellroy's Feast Of Death
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Scott_ben
Username: Scott_ben

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 6:12 am:   

Has anyones seen this picture before(beware it is very graphic)!!

http://www.bethshort.com/morgue.php

I post it because it clearly shows

1. the brutality of this murder
2. the wound to her mouth.

I find this interesting. The killer in my estimation was clearly trying to send some kind of message with this cut. Like she said something that caused her murder or it might point to the theory that she only engaged in oral sex.
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Warren
Username: Warren

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 7:35 am:   

Almost identical to some of the Ripper photos...
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Scott_ben
Username: Scott_ben

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:37 am:   

It recalls the ripper photos, however the ripper worked very quickly and killed his victims where they were found. Miss Short's body was dumped at the site and killed somewhere else. I believe the blood from her body was drained. Also while the ripper disembowled his victims, the Dalhia was completly cut in half. In addition the killer I believe placed fecal matter in her body cavity. VERY SICK!!
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Scott_ben
Username: Scott_ben

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:43 am:   

Although the bodies of

The Black Dahlia(Warning Very GRAPHIC!)

http://www.bethshort.com/morgue.jpg

and the Ripper's last victim Mary Kelly do look similar.

http://www.styla.com/images/mary_kelly.gif
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:06 am:   

That's nothing compared to what the medical examiner did to her.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   

I just watched The Black Dahlia, and it was a pretty good movie! I won't spoil it for anyone, but it should be obvious that, since it is based on James Ellroy's novel, the background on Beth Short is almost 100% fictional. They took some liberties with the crime scene as well, showing it to be in an open field next to town, rather than an empty lot in a suburban area. While Mia Kirshner plays Beth Short and all pics etc are of her, there is one authentic pic of Beth Short in the entire movie. All you sharp-eyed investigators out there will be able to spot it...
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Scott_ben
Username: Scott_ben

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:45 pm:   

I will be seeing it tommorow. It should be noted that the movie I believe stays pretty close to the novel. Remember the book was written in the 80's and not much info about the case had been made public. So any untruths pertaining to the actual case may be due to that. Although the book nor the movie is really about the case itself. More about a seperate story involving fictious characters whos lives intersect with the case.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:58 pm:   

So Elizabeth Short got her wish to be in movies after all. 59 years later.
Deanna Durbin was her favorite actress and according to her friends would immitate her voice and remember her lines and could sing like her too.
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   

"Next up on Fox: Nancy Grace interviews the Black Dhalia!"
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:17 pm:   

She's not half the gal she used to be.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:52 pm:   

Cutting remark, Doug... pretty sharp wit too, I might add...
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:53 pm:   

Ramirez and his cohort probably love this!

Farewell and adieu my dear Spanish ladies----
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 3:44 pm:   

Was that a Z like logo on her right breast ? Her rising sign has to be Gemini( split personality ).Has anyone seen the old movie about her ? I am going to see if I can't buy it, maybe that one has some truth in it. I find it very odd that the killer didn't do any other crimes like this one.The person who did do this had to have killed before I would think.Draining the blood,sounds satanic. Did they do snuff flims back then ? Perhaps she was asked to do a movie about a girl being killed,only it was for real.I heard that even though she was cut in two,the organs were not damaged. Anyone know for sure about that ?
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   

Sandy, that's an interesting observation about the probability that the killer hadn't done any other crimes similar to the Dahlia murder. That got me to thinking. J. Paul de River, author of the 1949 book "The Sexual Criminal" (who was also a key figure in the investigation of the Dahlia murder) gave an account of a criminal styled "K," who committed at least two mutilation-style murders in Los Angeles; in both murders the victim was disemboweled, as well as being horrifically mutilated. Unfortunately, de River never provided dates for these crimes. It would be interesting to know more about this "K" person's actual identity, and when, exactly, he committed the murders for which he was ultimately sentenced to death.
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Ratman
Username: Ratman

Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 2:25 am:   

Also as certain investigators have mentioned:
There were similarities to the murders in Cleveland when Elliott Ness was Chief of Police there that went unsolved. I even read that Ness received a letter saying the murderer was going to L.A. to continue.
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 9:50 pm:   

Sandy wrote: "Her rising sign has to be Gemini( split personality )."

That was a great one, Sandy! Hilarious. These puns bring a new meaning to the phrase "black humor".

Douglas Oswell wrote: "It would be interesting to know more about this "K" person's actual identity, and when, exactly, he committed the murders for which he was ultimately sentenced to death."

This sounds like a job for Ed- the master researcher. Any ideas on who this mysterious killer could be, Ed?
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Bookworm
Username: Bookworm

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 5:26 pm:   

Sandy,
I think the movie you're thinking of is "Who is the Black Dahlia?" with Lucie Arnez. Here is the link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073897/
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Bookworm
Username: Bookworm

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 9:09 pm:   

Here's a link with Black Dahlia information and even FBI links at the bottom of the page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dahlia
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Ubpclaw
Username: Ubpclaw

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   

This is what is said regard the "genital defect" on the wikipedia site

Another widely circulated myth holds that Short was unable to have sexual intercourse because of some genetic defect that left her with "infantile genitalia." Los Angeles County district attorney's files states the investigators had questioned three men with whom Short had sexual intercourse[2], including a Chicago police officer who was a suspect in the case[3]. The FBI files on the case also contain a statement from a man with whom Short had sexual intercourse. According to the LAPD summary of the case, in the district attorney's files, the autopsy describes Short's reproductive organs as anatomically normal. The autopsy also states that Short was not and had never been pregnant, contrary to what is sometimes claimed. [4] [5]

While the "infantile genitalia" myth must be regarded as suspect, the DA files do contain the following:- Doctor Schwartz last stated that he studied surgery and that victim was on the make for him but that she was the patient of Doctor Arthur McGinnis Faught who was treating victim for trouble with her bartholin gland and that he wanted nothing to do with her. He stated that the bartholin gland was the lubricating gland in the vagina and that Doctor Faught had lanced it on several occasions and it could account for the fact that she had not been having intercourse with men.
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:25 pm:   

Just saw "The Black Dahlia". Wasn't too impressed. Tho' it does have some pretty good action. But the whole thing seemed like one long cigarrette commercial. In virtually every scene in the movie the main star or stars light up and/or smoke. At one point, hilariously (tho' it's not supposed to be), the star is in bed after love-making & sticks TWO cigarrettes in his mouth & starts smoking both of them!! Very obvious the tobacco companies paid for a HUGE chunk of this movie budget. Not any single cigarrette maker, but a 'board' of them, kind of like the "Dairy Board" promotes milk & cheese.

But the main reason I didn't care too much for this movie was that it really wasn't about the Black Dahlia case we all know about. It uses EXTREMELY stereotypical 40's pulp fiction dialogue, characters & visuals. Even has the cheesy, lonely detective narrating the whole thing. It was more like an Agatha Christie novel. You know, the bizarre murder mystery that has you wondering what the solution will be. Only to be bowled over at the end with a "surprise ending" which seems totally unrealistic & out of left field.

"Wow, so you mean the butler did it- but 'he' was really a 'she', with a green peg leg & his car was really a shark-eating robot! Wow!" If you've ever seen the ending to that satire of an Agatha Chrisite movie, "Murder By Death", you'll know what I'm talking about.

Plus, the real hunt for the Black Dahlias' killer has almost nothing to do with this movie.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:27 pm:   

Real life is much too tame for Hollywood.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:35 pm:   

It's getting mediocre reviews at best on the IMDb site with a 5.6 rating out of 2943 votes cast so far.
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Ed_neil
Username: Ed_neil

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 3:04 am:   

Guess I'm the odd one out then, because I liked it...
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Vscantu
Username: Vscantu

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 5:22 am:   

In all fairness, Ed & all, it had a lot to like if you're into "action" movies. Plus it did have a lot of hotties & sexual stuff (tho' again this was made-up stuff).

I guess I wasn't big on it because I am such a 'true crime' buff. I had read a lot of articles & snippets about the Black Dahlia case and was expecting a mostly 'true' story about it. With lots of actual details & sub-plots about the clues as they happened, the suspects, detectives etc. You know, like the macabre, Zodiac-like letter the cops got supposedly written by her killer with the letters cut out seperately from magazines. And the package of her clothes left near the scene shortly after the murder which everyone (I think) presumed was left by her killer.

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