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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 5:40 pm:   

A adult male walked into a 2nd story class room in Baily Colorado. He claimed to have a bomb,would not talk to the police other than through one of the female hostages. He shot and killed a young female student,then shot himself.Perp has not been ID'd as of yet.He kept saying something about a 4 o' clock dead line.but wouldn't say what he wanted. Check it out on CNN.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 8:10 pm:   

Their are other news sources besides the Communist Network News.
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Ratman
Username: Ratman

Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 1:06 pm:   

On MSN.com there's a number of articles about it. Duane Morrison,53 of Denver. They said it was "entirely sexual in nature".
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 4:27 pm:   

I read the news too. Maybe Tom should start a new program----Zodiac Killer News----Tell us your opinions after you read the news on the other National sites.

I can see Tom and Ed as anchors--"and now, breaking news in Colorado, and how it affects the Zodiac case--".
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Sandy
Username: Sandy

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 5:17 pm:   

Johno, I turn it off when it gets into politics.
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Ratman
Username: Ratman

Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 2:42 pm:   

It's better than "Bush's Fox News".
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Ratman
Username: Ratman

Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 11:06 am:   

More school shootings today:
An amish school in Pa. At least 6 dead including gunman.
LE were looking for gunman near a school in Vegas. Have heard no more on this one though.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 11:39 am:   

The Amish shootings today are about 75 miles East of me. Everyone around here is in shock. Things are pretty bad when this stuff starts popping up in the Amish community. BTW, my daughter lives in Lancaster, PA.
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Chari
Username: Chari

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 1:45 pm:   

I just heard, that is so terrible
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 1:53 pm:   

I understand that this was an individual who harbored a 20-year-old grudge against someone.
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Racerx
Username: Racerx

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 2:02 pm:   

I was in this area less than 2 days ago to do a service call.I had to be careful going along the highway because the little amish children with their lunch boxes were walking to school. These people are the salt of the earth, and hate no one. They would give anyone the shirt off their back, or make you one. Now some pos coward has to come along and destroy tranquility, because of a grudge that occured 20 years ago that had nothing to do with the amish. I am so pissed.
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Chari
Username: Chari

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 2:12 pm:   

no excuse of why he did this horrible thing. I really do not know why they do crap like this. 3 school shootings since 5 days. I am afraid taking my 6 years old to school anymore.
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 3:37 pm:   

I'd be afraid to take my own six-year-old to school nowadays, but it wouldn't be on account of shootings.
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Linda
Username: Linda

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 4:04 pm:   

It sounds like all the victims were little girls - he had let the boys go and some of the teachers with little children... Did anyone else hear this, too... What 20 year old grudge could he possibly have for targeting just little girls and letting the boys go?
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 7:23 pm:   

According to Fox News, "[t]he gunman, Charles Carl Roberts IV, a 32-year-old truck driver from the nearby town of Bart, was bent on killing young girls as a way of "acting out in revenge for something that happened 20 years ago" when he was a boy, Miller said."

He's probably viewing these little girls the same way Zodiac viewed young couples--they themselves didn't do anything to wrong him, but represented other specific individuals who did (or at least he thought they did).
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 6:41 am:   

The media LOVES when bad stuff happens in the Amish community. There's something about the horse & buggy lifestyle being interrupted by "worldly" violence that makes for great TV.

Having worked as a Crisis Worker in Lancaster Co. and having two young children, this case hits home. The gunman was apparently not Amish but just chose the nearest schoolhouse to express whatever was in his head at the time.

Very sad...
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Socal
Username: Socal

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 7:07 am:   

My prayers go out to the Amish community. This is a horrible tragedy.
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Racerx
Username: Racerx

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:01 am:   

The coward chose the one room school house because it had no security, no phone, and everyone was on one floor, and he knew the building's layout. Wished I was there and this pos had encountered me first. The Amish are the last people on earth that deserve this; especially the children.
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Chari
Username: Chari

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 11:17 am:   

I agree with you, and top with all of this he molested his family members and told his wife he dreamed of doing it again.
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Chari
Username: Chari

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 11:18 am:   

molested family members decades ago
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Colette
Username: Colette

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 12:46 pm:   

The victims were little innocent girls aged 6 to 13 years. This POS was a Baily Colorado copy cat, he probably assulted them too. I hope this stops right now.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 3:40 pm:   

He had with him a 9mm Springfield Arms semi-automatic pistol, a Rugar bolt action sports rifle, a Browning 12-gauge shotgun and 600 rounds of amunition.
He also had a stun gun, two cans of gun powder, two knives, binoculars, wrenches, a hose, plastic ties, hooks, wire, tape, a bucket, toilet paper, a change of clothes and lubricant for sex.
He fired thirteen rounds from the 9mm at the girls as well as three blasts from the 12 gauge shotgun.
He put the 14th round from the 9mm into his own head.
His father is a retired policeman. His mother is a member of a Christian theater group.
His wife is 28 and they had been married for 10 years.
They lost their first child, a duaghter, due to premature birth in 1997. They have two young schoolage daugters and a baby son.
Land-O-Lakes out of Minnesota owned and operated the milk delivery company he worked for. He was well liked by co-workers and customers and was known for joking around with them and being a friendly and curteous worker until his mood changed less than a week before the shootings which was around the time of the Colorado school shootings and he stopped talking to co-workers and customers.
His wife said they never had any problems in their 10 year marriage but he took the death of their baby daughter hard and he never really got over it.
He apparently specifically named the two relatives who he said he mollested when they were three and four and he was 12 but police had not yet interviewed those relatives or their parents.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 5:42 pm:   

Thanks for the info Johno.
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 7:57 pm:   

No excuses here but the Amish and Mennonites in this closed community have a huge prevalence of Bipolar Disorder. The combination of a genetic predisposition to mental illness, distrust of the mental health system and easy access to firearms sometimes leads to bad events.

I have to think that this guy was aware of the Baily, CO incident before he decided to act out his long-standing fantasies. Don't be surprised if this guy had a documented history of mental health problems.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 8:36 pm:   

He wasn't Amish or Mennonite. I believe he was Presbyterian.
His wife was at a church prayer group meeting when he went to the school to begin his massacre.
He never went to public or private school and recieved a diploma being home-schooled.
So far there is no evidence of any mental health history and no criminal history in his past either.
No problems with the nieghbors or the workplace or church.
His wife was involved with the PTA at the public school that their two daughters ages five and seven attended.

I think the Colorado hostage takeover and shootings may have actually been a dark fantasy that he had thought about and he was stunned that someone else had those same thoughts and actually did it which propelled him to carry out his fantasy and more carefully plan for it to see it through. He planned for a long siege of the schoolhouse but realized in the end that a small one room wooden building was a poor choice for such a siege,
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Deoxys
Username: Deoxys

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 9:09 pm:   

Just speculation, Johno. This guy was not Amish but lived in the same insulated, closed community around them. Mental illness in this community is hidden and rarely discussed outside of the community. Serious mental illness can be hidden for decades until it spills over into something embarassing.

This is an incredibly sad case and shouldn't be a reflection on the community in which it occurred. I agree that the Colorado case probably stimulated existing fantasies in this guy and he realized at some point his own total loss of humanity. He perhaps decided to shoot the girls and himself at that point and abandon his plans for molestation and an extended hostage siege?
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 9:48 pm:   

This guy's a little like Dennis Rader and Jeffrey Dahmer. Both had major mental problems going on in their heads but had no criminal record or mental health record and were loved by their families.
Dahmer had no real friends and was single but got along well with co-workers and nieghbors so the cracks were hard to see.
Rader was loved by his family, church was a big part of his life and he had a wife and kids who looked up to him and fellow congregation members who liked him. He didn't have any real friends though and some nieghbors and co-workers couldn't stand him so there were some cracks to look for.
I'll bet this Charles Carl Roberts IV had no friends. Guys to chum around with and go fishing and hunting or playing cards or guitars or going to a sporting event with. I bet he had no friends that he knew from his childhood that he stayed in contact with as an adult. I would also think that he and his wife would do things as a couple in church related social events but they didn't have another couple that they were close with and went on vacations together or went to each others homes to socialize and do things as two close couples would do like going out to dinner together or going to a movie together or whatever.
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Racerx
Username: Racerx

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 2:32 am:   

Who knows what went on in this pos cowards mind.people can speculate for years and still may never know. The fact of the matter is that he walked HIS children to the bus stop in the morning, and a little over 2 hours later, he was executing someone elses children for NO reason. He knew he was going to kill himself that day; he didn't care about his family, or their future. He knew he was sick in the head, and should have went to a secluded spot and done himself in; not be a coward and take innocent young children with him. He prayed on weakness, found it and we are seeing the results. I live and work in this area, and have the highest respect for the Amish and in ways envy their way of life, and I am so pissed that a pos coward has destroyed tranquility here. This is the last place on earth that you would expect something like this to happen. What really get's me is that there is another piece of crap out there waiting to do the same thing elsewhere.
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Racerx
Username: Racerx

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 3:17 am:   

This just in folks. The "citizen" group that goes around the country protesting military funerals, are now going to protest at the Amish children's funerals. It seems they have a beef with Gov. Ed Rendell's position on the war. Only in America
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Douglas_oswell
Username: Douglas_oswell

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 5:55 am:   

I understand where you're coming from, Racerx. Still, there's no reason why we can't separate honest outrage from a natural human desire to comprehend what motivations can lead a person to do something like this. Yes, it's frustrating that some well-intentioned but moronic individuals will try to use such knowledge to excuse the actions of evil and ill-disposed people. In the long run, though, I think we're better off knowing the truth, as best as we can determine it.
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Johno
Username: Johno

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 2:19 pm:   

Radio talk show host Mike Gallager offered the WBC hate group air time on his show if they would stop their plans of protesting the Amish girls funerals and they agreed to do so.
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Chari
Username: Chari

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 11:53 am:   

Why protest? Have they suffer enough? Hate group needs to leave them alone and let them mourn in peace.
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Etphoto
Username: Etphoto

Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 11:10 am:   

I was just reading in the local paper about the funerals. I was wondering, does the Amish know or realize the support (enough though emotional support) they are getting across the country?

ET
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Ratman
Username: Ratman

Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   

They still go into town to get supplies and things like you see in the movies so I'm sure they've heard about all things concerning them.
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Vallejo_dave
Username: Vallejo_dave

Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 6:08 pm:   

A lot of the Amish are moving here to Franklin and Cumberland counties, to get away from the publicity and commercialism in Lancaster county. The ones I know here are very appreciative of our Nation's concern for them.---This is a sad ,sad case.
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Racerx
Username: Racerx

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 3:45 am:   

Over $500,000.00 in donations have been raised so far for the Amish. Most of this money will go for the medical treatment/hospitalization of the children. The killer was buried Saturday; half of the 75 mourners were Amish,some of them were neighbors,some were from the victims families.
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Racerx
Username: Racerx

Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 3:54 am:   

Also, the Amish are going to tear down the school house and burn it and it's contents. Nothing will be saved.

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