ALLEN and STINE share birthday (12/18)


Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Arthur Leigh Allen: ALLEN and STINE share birthday (12/18)

By Spencer (Spencer) (ac90d8f4.ipt.aol.com - 172.144.216.244) on Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 06:07 pm:

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet (although, based on the sheer volume of Zodiac info out there, I'm confident it has), but confirmed Z vic PAUL STINE was born on December 18, 1939. ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN was born on December 18, 1933.

While it is unlikely that ALLEN (or any Z suspect) could have known his victims' b-days (b/c these were crimes of opportunity), STINE is the least "opportune" of the victims. This is true of the fact that he is the only victim known to have been "manipulated" into a specific location (even if one doesn't believe the hype of the MD-PH-BRS radian theory) by Z. It is conceivable (and I don't know if it's true) that STINE'S cabbie license was posted AND that it contained his b-day. If SF cab licenses were posted in those days (as they are in many cabs today), and if they contained b-days (I know -- two big if's), Z would have seen it (Z was nothing if not observant).

If Z saw it (assuming Z to be ALLEN), one could go so far as to reason that ALLEN was cruising SF with no intent to kill that night (considering the short time, 12 days, between Berryessa and SF) but decided that it was too good of an opportunity to pass-up (maybe it was meant to be, in Z's mind).

This could help to explain some of the variations between Z's killing of STINE and those of his other CONFIRMED victims (if you discount BATES):

-- All were in remote, unpopulated areas
-- All were attacks on couples, in which the male victims survived in two of the three attacks
-- None of the other crime scenes exhibited any obvious missing items (while STINE's shirt had a piece cut-off which was used to authenticate that specific killing and Z's future communications)

Finally, STINE is the final CONFIRMED Z victim. Many here have speculated that the close-call with the police unnerved Z, leading him to stop killing, and instead focus on the letter-writing portion of his campaign of terror, and this could, if true, help to justify/explain that idea.

Just something to consider . . .

If anyone knows about cab licenses in SF in 1969, I would appreciate the info.

Spencer

By Spencer (Spencer) (ac90d8f4.ipt.aol.com - 172.144.216.244) on Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 06:14 pm:

Sorry, I just noticed the b-day info in Tom's Arthur Leigh Allen file. My theory remains unaffected, however.

By Ed N. (Edn) (spider-ntc-tb013.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.16.153) on Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 06:18 pm:

Spencer: I discovered that little gem last year about Allen and Stine sharing the same birthday, and forwarded Tom a copy of Stine's death certificate. It certainly is an intriguing fact, but, is it because Allen was Z that he chose Stine as a victim, or was it that someone else was Z and that it is only a coincidence that a suspect and a victim shared the same birthday?

By Hurley (Hurley) (spider-tf041.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.197.191) on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 08:34 pm:

Spencer, I found what you said interesting. Maybe chosing Stine because of his birthday was another clue.

By Ed N. (Edn) (spider-ntc-td074.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.17.184) on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 04:17 pm:

An interesting point is that Z took a piece of Stine's shirt, his wallet and his car keys. I've often wondered why he took anything, because he didn't souvenir anything (that we know of) from any of the other victims. Is it possible that taking the keys was a hint of some sort, ie, that Stine might be the key to the Z crimes?

By Marbar (Marbar) (mp-214-233.daxnet.no - 193.216.214.233) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 12:14 pm:

I tend to believe the fact that Stine and Allen share birthdays is just a coincidence. There would be quite a lot of work involved for Z to find this out and then commit the murder, and I don't think he "worked" that way. I am not into astrology, but I believe that if they shared both birthday and birthyear it would be much more significant and perhaps not a coincidence (if in fact Z was into astrology).

I think one shold put more emphasis on the fact that Z took his wallet, car keys and a bit of his shirt. Why take something this time when he had not taken anything from previous murders (that we know) and why take three items? Getting a piece of the shirt was probably messy too? Do any of you know if he ripped the shirt off or cut off a piece (by knife)?

Marbar

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (ac905ccd.ipt.aol.com - 172.144.92.205) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 01:17 pm:

It was torn.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p85.as2.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 159.134.234.85) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 01:29 pm:

Ed,Tom,
Was there any other connection found that could exist between Stine and ALA.Is there any chance they could have known each other or at least if ALA could have known stine?
Was the taxi hailed on the street or was there a call to the dispatcher?

By Jake Wark (Jake) (spider-tn033.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.207.58) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 02:41 pm:

Tom wrote:
"It was torn."

Is this per SFPD or something? The photos show that the shirt pieces were squared off, with relatively neat edges. One section is kind of messy, but if Z had torn the sticky, bloody shirt with his bare hands, I'd think the end result would have been much sloppier.

Lapumo wrote:
"Was the taxi hailed on the street or was there a call to the dispatcher?"

Stine was flagged down on his way to another call.

--Jake
http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/index.html
"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."

By Ed N. (Edn) (spider-ntc-tc053.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.17.43) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 05:38 pm:

Lapumo: I don't know of any other connections, but it seems that Stine was dispatched to 500 9th Avenue (Zodiac, p. 92) when Z hailed him; that address was, interestingly enough, the Allen Arms Apartments, but I think it's nothing more than coincidence at this point.

By Esau (Esau) (cc129455-a.rcrdva1.ca.home.com - 24.176.178.187) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 06:01 pm:

It is possible that this was the first time Z had his wits about him and felt confident enough to stay and secure the wallet, keys, and shirt swatch. Practice makes perfect and perfection brings confidence.

By Ed N. (Edn) (spider-mtc-td023.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.104.158) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 09:03 pm:

Esau: I think Z had his wits about him each time, but... perhaps he took the things from Stine because he knew there was a good chance he'd be caught committing a murder in a posh neighborhood, and this way, he'd look like nothing more than someone who tried to rob a cab and kill the driver. This way, it makes sense that he used a different weapon each time, because then they couldn't make a ballistics match to other open Z cases because of the difference in weaponry.

Sounds a little warped, but maybe in Z's perverted way of thinking, if he was caught (not just in PH, but at any other crime scene), they'd only be able to pin one murder on him and not five, because he wouldn't confess to the others. Once he got away, however, then he could "do [his] thing!!!!!!"

By Hurley (Hurley) (spider-tk051.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.206.196) on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 08:07 am:

If anyone would have stumbled upon Z at the Stine crime scene he probably would have just blown them away. I think it was a lucky mistake for those cops who think they saw Zodiac but were told to look for a black man.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acb494cd.ipt.aol.com - 172.180.148.205) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 10:24 am:

It's been a while since anyone posted on this thread, but to remind ya'll, today would have been Allen's 68th and Paul Stine's 62nd birthday.

By Ricardo (Ricardo) (user-38ldu5n.dialup.mindspring.com - 209.86.248.183) on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 07:05 pm:

Edmund Emil Kemper III's birthday was December 18, 1948.

By Ed N. (Ed_N) (acac3dbd.ipt.aol.com - 172.172.61.189) on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:58 pm:

Of course, today is Allen's birthday, and if that scumbag (Z or not) were still alive, he'd be 69 years old. Paul Stine would be 63 today.