Why DID Allen want to be associated with the Zodiac?


Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Arthur Leigh Allen: Why DID Allen want to be associated with the Zodiac?

By Matt (usr35-tel.cableinet.co.uk - 213.48.178.42) on Monday, September 04, 2000 - 12:33 pm:

Is it possible that this was Because he wanted to seem important. But because he was not the Zodiac, he felt he was ont in sany danger of being arrested.

If the above is true, then maybe it worked?

By Chrissy Shaw (dial-98.farmtel.net - 209.207.16.98) on Tuesday, September 05, 2000 - 01:04 am:

If Allen was not Zodiac, why would he want to be thought to be Zodiac? For the same reason I suppose, that some people want to pretend to be Mafia hit men, or CIA spies. I think it is similar to people who confess just to confess. I don't know about Mr. Allens drinking habits, but I do know a great many drinkers become a great many horrible people when drunk whom they cease to be when sober. It is an oddity of human nature, vicarious fame or infamy.

By Ed N. (spider-wc033.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.193.33) on Tuesday, September 05, 2000 - 11:43 pm:

Allen was a convicted homosexual pedophile. If others thought he was Z, that may have (in a criminal sense, that is) elevated him in their eyes, or so he might have thought anyway. Remember, there is (or was, at any rate) a pecking order in jail, and killers of men generally rank much higher on the totem pole than rapists and child molesters, and those who kill women and children too. That's why Manson, for instance, is kept out of the general prison population. He would have been offed a long time ago because of the type of scum that he is.

Anyway, that might have been why Allen, if he was not Z, liked others to think of him that way.

By todangst (spider-wg072.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.196.52) on Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:56 am:

Let's not forget that most followers of Zodiac consider the Zodiac Killer to be brilliant, he succesfully duped entire police forces for decades. Zodiac is a real life "super villian". If I had lived a life without much accomplishment, it might be nice to at least go out as a brilliant super criminal.

By sandy (c531918-a.ptbrg1.sfba.home.com - 24.176.152.45) on Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 11:35 pm:

He isn't brilliant!! He is lucky!! Confusion was what helped him,and that confusion started at Lake B.

By Michael (ip43.lancaster5.pa.pub-ip.psi.net - 38.32.27.43) on Monday, September 11, 2000 - 01:45 pm:

Smart yes.....brilliant no.......lucky..very.

Michael

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (spider-ntc-tb033.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.16.163) on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 10:23 am:

Personally, I think it was because he was the Z and loved to flaunt the fact because he knew there was no physical evidence linking him to the crime.

I believe Allen as Zodiac -- especially if Allen -- would have destroyed every single piece of evidence that existed as soon as he discovered that VPD wasn't putting a watch on him. How did he discover that? Nobody came knocking on his door for a police interview for nearly 2 years following Presidio Heights.

He had to have figured that VPD would be knocking on his door at least within a week of PH, right? After all, he'd just been interviewed by Lynch 5 days prior to PH. If VPD were skeptical of him as the Z, they'd be bound to show their presence in some way sooner or later.

But no, it was not to be. Allen as Z allows a little time to float by, perhaps a week or two, maybe a month, just to be sure, then destroys all of the evidence -- except Stine's shirt, which he'll need to authenticate Zodiac's identity in the future -- and concentrates strictly on his letter writing campaign. Zodiac lives on, no more murders are needed, and Allen as Z can brag about it all he wants because he knows, or assumes with a tremendous amount of (probable) certainty, that nothing exists that will connect him to the crimes.

Ed wrote: "Remember, there is . . . a pecking order in jail, and killers of men generally rank much higher on the totem pole than rapists and child molesters, and those who kill women and children too."

That, I agree, is another extremely good reason for bragging about being the Zodiac. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, pedophiliacs are considered the lowest form of scum, even to the worst of men. And they will receive some good jailhouse lovin' when word gets around.

However, Allen never went to prison for his crimes, and was likely a more intimidating figure in a place like Atascadero than he would have been in a state penitentiary. Therefore, the question still remains: Why would Allen want to be associated with the Zodiac if he wasn't in fact the Zodiac?

Scott

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p51-170.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 159.134.51.170) on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 10:43 am:

This is exactly what makes Allen such a strong candidate in my mind.Here's a guy who was willing to take extreme risks to get a close as he could.
Far from discounting him becasuse "Zodiac would not do anything this stupid", for me it's what makes Z,Z.
Don't buy the shirt bit though Scott.Fact is he didn't need it the first time,he certainly didn't for future letters.Not to provide proof of authorship anyway.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (coral.tci.com - 198.178.8.81) on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 11:56 pm:

"Don't buy the shirt bit though Scott.Fact is he didn't need it the first time,he certainly didn't for future letters. Not to provide proof of authorship anyway."

In the beginning he was able to provide details of his crimes that were known only to himself and the police. If Zodiac stopped killing after Stine, which I believe he did, he would no longer be able to provide any details that would authenticate his missives. Hence, Stine's shirt.

Scott

By Ray N (Ray_N) (user-38ld86h.dialup.mindspring.com - 209.86.160.209) on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 08:30 am:

Scott:

Then why did he only occasionally use shirt swatches? He sent several more letters and cards, but only used shirt pieces in the Dripping Pen card and the Melvin Belli letter. Common thinking along the lines of identification is tested by what the Z actually did.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (spider-ntc-tc081.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.17.56) on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 06:46 pm:

"Common thinking along the lines of identification is tested by what the Z actually did."

Lapumo, Ray:

Right, and what he did with the shirt was cut swatches from it to drop into letters. Otherwise, I don't know; unless he used the shirt to wipe down the cab. If he didn't want the shirt for reasons of authentication, then why did he take it?

Scott

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-9.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 159.134.50.9) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 09:12 am:

That's the $64,000 question Scott.There was no doubt when Zodiac posted his first 4 letters and cipher that they came from Zodiac, the murderer of
the teenagers.Proof of this came from details that he provided.Perhaps one could reasonably argue that he required proof becasue of the change in MO.Then again,I'm just questioning why a similar divulgence of details would not have sufficed.One has to be confident that Zodiac would be aware that future letters would be authenticated by handwriting analysis at least.
In over 20 letters he only used the shirt 3 times.
Yet,as we know there was more of the shirt left over that he could have used.I just feel there 's more to it than meets the eye.

By Sandy (Sandy) (ppp-64-175-140-242.dialup.wnck11.pacbell.net - 64.175.140.242) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 09:40 am:

I am looking at it another way. Lets say the killer of stine was not the same one who shot Darlene. The one who shot her new he would be questioned, because he new Darlene.So to throw the police off, he sent one of the others in his group,who would leave the print.And made sure that the cab stopped in front of the party across the street, so someone would get a look at a man, who didn't look like the same one seen shooting at Mike and Darlene. Someone in the group who was never arrested nor was ever in the military.There fore would clear any of the other suspects, by prints alone.So now you have one who has printing that looks like the killer,but the prints exclude him,like Allen , Kane ,Phillips.He needed the shirt to convince the police he was Zodiac.