Cheri Jo Bates last days Message Board: Possible Zodiac Victim Cheri Jo Bates: Cheri Jo Bates last days

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 12:57 am:

Cheri travelled to San Francisco to be with her boyfriend just before her death.The man she was engaged to ,Dennis Highland, was a student at S.F.State.It would be amazing if there was some kind of connection to Z and this trip to S.F.They exchanged letters/calls with each other.

It will be remembered that some speculated that Donna Lass may have been 'followed' to Lake Tahoe in 1970 after she left her job(June of 1970 -and disappeared just 3 MOS later) as a nurse at the Letterman General Hospital on the Presidio in S.F. She lived close to that area and the Stine 187 site.One thing that is troubling is that Donna's former roommate Jo Anne, said that the police did not contact her(this is the person who told Graysmith that she and Donna used to go flying with 2 men from Riverside when they lived in S.F.);so her statement, must of necessity, include ,not only the S.F.PD, but the L.T.PD as well!This is shoddy work to the max!Did they beat a path to Kathleen Johns door-NO!Some say that northern CA is our "South"-it moves slow and easy-or not at all; and Tahoe is not far behind as they never really searched for Lass!

By Mark (Mark) ( - on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 04:09 pm:

Howard-I'm extremely surprised there hasn't been one message added to this thread! Now that I'm not working two full time jobs I'm taking the time to work through all of the posts. All I can say is Good God, I can't believe the police never questioned her!! These men from Riverside could've been something major!! It's becoming more obvious that the law enforcement agencies really did an exceedingly poor job! I've read about how out of competitiveness about being the department to solve the case information wasn't readily supplied to the others. I've also heard this is common, how many of the "seven deadlies" are involved here?? What do you think Howard, if the police had been doing a thorough comprehensive job could this case have been solved by now?

By Justin (Jabroni2233) ( - on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 11:02 pm:

In the Victims section of the site, there is a picture of Cheri Jo in the Library. The caption says the picture was taken "very shortly before her murder." Who took this picture? Was it taken on the night of her death?

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 11:08 pm:

Justin:We got the picture (I sent that copy to Tom)and I think it was taken by Fred Bauman the photog' who took the desk/ poem shots.

By Tony (Mahalo) ( - on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 12:28 am:

Didn't ALA or his family own an airplane or 2?

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 12:58 am:

Tony: ALA had his pilots license and flew planes.It has been speculated that Allen may have been one of the 2 men that Donna Lass and her roommate flew with.One editor seems to think the pilot was businessman Robert hunter!

By Tony (Mahalo) ( - on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 01:17 am:

Thanks Howard. And that Donner Pass/Donna Lass thing. WOW.I always felt that postcard was from Z.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 05:43 pm:

Tony: To be fair-there are researchers that either do not believe that the card was from Zodiac or they have severe doubts about its authenticity.

Going even further these same people do not believe that Zodiac was responsible for her abduction or,again, doubt Z was the responsible.

I believe that he not only sent the card , but that he abducted Ms. Lass.There will be more information in the future on this mysterious case.

By Jake (Jake) ( - on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 10:28 am:

Howard wrote:
"It has been speculated that Allen may have been one of the 2 men that Donna Lass and her roommate flew with.One editor seems to think the pilot was businessman Robert hunter!"

Is this Harry Martin, the same editor that thinks flouridation is a Bolshevik conspiracy?


By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 04:30 pm:


I'm assuming you're referencing the latter part of Howard's earlier post:

One editor seems to think the pilot was businessman Robert hunter!

If so, then yes, it's everybody's (well, mine anyway) other favorite whipping boy, Harry Martin. He's the same guy who thinks that gubmint tested an A-bomb prototype at Port Chicago in 1944. Duh.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Thursday, June 14, 2001 - 12:21 am:

Jake: I met with Harry Martin several years ago, in Concord, CA. In some respects he seemed very dedicated to the Z case, but many, of course, find his reasoning and evidence questionable and this includes his Robert Hunter/Donna Lass fly party article!I have his "Team Zodiac" series and this is where the reference is to be found.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 08:09 am:

I was at a Power Teaching party and a friend of mine who teaches at RCC pointed out a professor who was teaching at RCC back in 1966 and continues to teach there now. We were able to chat for a moment before he was needed. When I brought up Cheri's murder he quickly said that he remembers very well there being a construction crew at the college in Oct '66. Very soon after the crime, it disbanded. He always believed it was one of those guys and he said certain investigators did as well, but they lost track of him. He went on to say that he is convinced this person went on to become Zodiac.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 01:14 am:

I have brought that out for years and have gotten a lot of flack from those that never investigated that extensive construction project.I went into it in depth.See my posts.I obtained construction permits and spoke(and wrote)with some contractors.They brought in a lot of men to work on RCC and Poly in '66/7.The yearbooks have some photos and comments on this massive construction project.
One of Cheri's friends told us that construction crewman would try and flirt with Cheri and yell out catcalls,etc,but she always ignored them(this reminds me of the "brush offs"statement in the Confession letter of '66!).
She was quite striking,but had a flaring temper when provoked and could be quite detached.She was very friendly and was very popular and active.Someone else may have thought otherwise.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 05:26 pm:

well, apparently of those that were actually there, you have minds in agreement.
I am still interested in the suspect I came across while doing a bit of research with you last year.
For those on the Board: I discovered a suspect that should at least be given a closer look by investigators. His name - Bruce (not Davis), a husky bearded man. He worked as a handyman at a church just down the street from RCC in 1966. In the late 1960's and early 1970's he came and went until in 1974 he disappeared definitively. Apparently never questiosned by police.
Just another pozzibility.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) ( - on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 01:51 pm:

Can you elaborate a little on that Sylvie? Sounds interesting. I assume you have his full name!

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 02:05 pm:

Supposedly Bruce Applegate.There is at least one other 'Bruce' that may be of interest.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:02 pm:

Right, at least that is what he went by.
He seemed a mystery, even to those that knew him. Always smiling and joking but never opening up and showing somewhat of an aggressive side at times. No personal relationships. About 25 in 1966.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 05:15 pm:

"No personal relationships" is one of the first personal qualities I'd look for in a suspect. Someone with a temper, hard to get along with, unliked, unloved, and perhaps a latent homosexual.

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:10 pm:

Douglas may I add "someone" who may be a Mason. I would not say Zodiac would be unliked. Ted bundy had a charming personality. I would suspect Zodiac would be someone who is clever but definitely not a genius. I would also look for someone born under Water signs with perhaps a strong Gemini influence and an afflicted Venus from the 4th to the 8th house in his chart. Looking at the masonic angle I would also look for a chart that would represent the Sun or Moon God Osiris. Osiris is represented by the Nile river(water) the day Saturday(Capricorn) with a Venus in Taurus. Osiris depending on which reference you read is in the center of a oblong square with each corner of the square having the soltice points. Osiris is the dispenser of Justice and also gathers souls(slaves) for the afterlife. In short I would have looked for a man between 36 and 40, heavyset with a reddish tint to his hair and perhaps worked in construction, pipefitter, union type person. Yes, I would say he would have felt unloved, inadequate as a man and resentful of young people who could sit in lover's lanes and make out. I would agree that this man would have strong homosexual tendencies tied into the need for power and revenge for all the rejections he felt as a child and teenager.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 09:08 pm:

Overall, not a bad analysis, Daijove, with the exception of the IQ factor. Zodiac shows himself to be quite the intellectual eclectic, and while that doesn't prove genius, it disproves lack of genius.

Regarding homosexuality, I should clarify that when I say "latent," I'm using the term in the way psychologists used to intend it, as someone whose psyche is essentially engaged in a war between the sexual impulses and the moral scruples. I think that typically such a person would never have engaged in homosexual activity and in some cases might not even be aware of his condition. I've known and worked with people whom I was convinced were thus afflicted, and believe me, they are pure hell to deal with.

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 03:00 am:

Interesting way to put it, Douglas. However, while I believe there's no question that Z was above average intelligence (ie, an IQ of 110+), I'm not certain that anything he did indicates genius intelligence (150+). I figure he was probably in the 120-130 range.

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 08:07 am:

OK, getting back to Riverside. Does anyone know the company that contracted the construction work done at Riverside college or perhaps some of the contractors that worked there. A yearbook was mentioned showing some of the work done there. Are any company names given? Slyvie mentioned that a professor had thought that one of the construction workers might be the killer. Did the professor give any reasons for this belief? At this juncture astrology, masonic beliefs, profiles, and pure speculation seem pointless. The only way Zodiac is ever to be found and arrested now depends on DNA evidence and perhaps the palm and fingerprints(if they are any good) found at Riverside. In looking at all the information given here and in several books it becomes apparent that Zodiac was no 20-30 year old man. All evidence points to an older man-a man approaching middle age mid-30's to early 40's. My belief is Zodiac did kill Cheri Jo Bates and that he was part of the construction crew that wroked there. My reasons for this will be given in a later post when I have more time to explain. Thanks for listening

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 09:52 am:

Yes I felt the elderly professor was very approachable, however I believe he probably disclosed just about everything he would have known a long time ago. He even told me that a Z investigator contacted him a few years ago. Was that you Howard?
For him the liklihood that someone on the construction crew was involved was a no-brainer.
And although that was the consensus of many others there at the time, remember the RPD was strongly attached to the "boyfriend theory", so much so that they basically put blinders on.
When the expertise of Morrill couldn't be denied, they had to come up with this bizarre theory that well, Zodiac most probably wrote the Bates letters, and the desk top poem, but did not commit the murders. (Personally, I have always thought that was the stupidest idea imaginable, as long as you are going to place Z in Riverside you might as well entertain him as a suspect!).
According to the professor, the crew scattered pretty quickly after the murder. Keep in mind also that they used alot of day laborers, some of whom would would work several weeks at a day by day wage. It was perfectly possible to give a fake name. As I've posted before there is a very old YMCA down the street from RCC. At that time as I understand young men could board on a temporary basis.(Davis, Ted K.?)
I agree with you that a member of the crew makes a good deal of sense. If Cheri had seen him around campus she would have been much more likely to have felt comfortable to have walked off with him, also it would have seen normal for him to have had the tools to fix her car.
In light of the fact that we know the boyfriend is in the clear, it seems clear that those that were there were on the right track.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:21 am:

Near Cal Corporation located(on Blue Gum St.) in Anaheim,did the general contracting for the RCC project.My guy lived right down the street from Near Cal and was a Union pipefitter/welder/painter.
There is a picture in the RCC yearbook of a man welding and it's titled "The Welder",showing it was a part of campus life while the project was going on.The students learned to live with all the contstruction activity-it was quite extensive at one point.
Sylvie, that was me!He was quite helpful.None of them believed the local boy did it.

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:58 pm:

Here is what I belive based on everything I have read. First Zodiac used language common to people who grew up in the south. "Fiddle & Fart" ,
"Riles" , and other language that indicates a Southern background. I feel Zodiac relocated to California in the mid 60's to get better work. With the exception of Cheri Jo Bates all of Zodiacs victims were in Northern california. This is where I feel Zodiac moved too and secured work at Riverside which is way South of where he lived. Because of the distance involved I would think he either found a room or an apartment. I feel he met Cheri while at work. I have no idea how long the construction lasted at Riverside. If Zodiac did work for a union then perhaps records can still be found. This is off the subject but Carl Jung a noted doctor devoloped a theory called the collective unconscious where we have a race memory, in short everything that has ever happened resides inside of each and every one of us. Now to the point. I am amazed how many times the names Bob and Robert come up in reference to Zodiac. It is like these 2 names beg to be heard. I feel Zodiac is named Bob his christian name being Robert. I wonder if Karen the babysitter were hypotized again if she could remember the name she heard now that Zodiac no longer poses a threat to her?

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 02:04 pm:

"Rile" is a really good observation(as it connects to other Southern kinds of expressions in Zs letters) as Zodiac did use that word in reference to the SFPD.(think it was the 11/9/69 missive)as you know!The word,of course, is used for anger,etc., more in the South than anywhere."Have your nose rubbed in your booboos"(11/9/69)another?"I enjoy needling the blue pigs"yet another?
The 11/9/69 missive seems to have,for some reason,the highest concentration of Southern style or manner of speech than any other communication.
"Best get off their fat asses"(3/13/71)is another.'You all BEST do this or that'is very common in the South. "Busy work"(11/9/69)I am informed(my Oakie aunts/uncles used this expression)is another and of course,"fiddle & fart around"(3/13/71)is classic.GS brings out that this expression seems to be used "principally" in Lubbock County,Texas,just where my suspects friend,Tex Watson,was reared.They used to "talk Texas talk" according to their old friends.The British/Oakie connection!

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 10:29 pm:

Also,on an 'Aussie sayings' site "fiddle and fart around" is given as an Aussie expression.Ned Kelly connection Ed?FYIIIIIIII

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 07:10 am:

Given the huge amount of letters Zodiac wrote to the press one can examine the content and syntax of the letters and see a pattern emerging. Odd phrasing, use of arcane words, southern style speaking, use of words that indicate he may have vbeen in the Air force(unflappable and other words), military boots, use of astrological symbols and use of words that might indicate a Masonic tie , anger, hatred for authority figures, sexual sadism, an apparent hatred for women, infantile thinking, a man obviously deluded. Now look at the different descriptions given. Middle age, husky, barrel chest, crewcut, flat-top, reddish tint to hair, about 5'10" to 5'11", heavyset 200-225lbs, perhaps influenced by the Texarkana murders in the mid-40's. In the mid-forties he would have either been 17 or 18 if you assume he was 36 in 1966. K. Johns describes a man who had children's clothing in his car. Zodiac may have been married and had children. The type car described is like the old Pontaic Catilina in the late 60's and early 70's with the console in the middle. A white Chevy is also associated with Zodiac. Zodiac seems to have consided himself a truthful man and became outrage when Capt. Lee called him a liar. I feel Zodiac told the truth when he said he was leaving fake "clews" in the taxi. I also feel he told the truth when he fessed up to the Riverside murder. He didnt want anyone else to take credit for that crime. I want to discuss the Stine Murder more thoroughly but I will do it under the Paul Stine section later on.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 05:53 pm:

Z could have worked on bases,both AF and Navy as a civilian and picked up some terms.PX privileges could be had also.If not,a base buddie could easily get what one wanted.
I just finished some research on civilian workers on military bases.It was,and still is,common pratice to use civilian contractors and workers on bases for different kinds of projects.
Vandenberg AF Base used welders/painters/carpenters/floor installers/general construction laborers/ pipefitters and other skilled/semi -skilled workmen to assist on building projects and general maintaince in the 60's(and still does).
I am tracing laborer lists down at this time.
Z didn't have to be a member of the military to pickup certain expressions and this includes clothing or military style dress and boots,etc.

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 02:58 am:

Howard you are correct. I would like to get back to the poem on the desk. Some people have suggested RH could mean Red Herring. Could also mean Robert was Here. Could mean anything really.

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 03:03 am:

What better place for Zodiac to operate and hide in but a Masonic Lodge. Ed mentioned a masonic temple in an earlier post. Just image Zodiac being a Mason who has access to much information because of that affilation.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 07:16 am:

No matter what you may think of the Masons, Masonic affilitation implies fraternity, and I'd be very surprised to discover that Zodiac was the fraternal type.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 11:10 am:

You are right,"rh" could mean anything.Rh was worn by Scottish soldiers-Royal Highlander(RH stands for Royal Highness too).It just doesn't stop!There is a thread giving different suggestions on the possible meanings of rh.
Manson/Davis studied Masonary and knew their signs and symbols.In some interviews you can see them giving certain Masonic signs with their hands/fingers.I don't believe Lodges are open for members to stay the night!

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 03:41 pm:

Douglas I would be very suprised if Zodiac was not a Mason. If Zodiac turns out to be a Mason it would not reflect on the Masonic order in any way or fashion. You have crazies in almost any organization today and the masonic order is not without exception. Many years ago there was a serial killer case where the killer turned out to belong to the masons and that his being a Mason had hindered the investigation because of that fact. Anyway it is just my "belief" that Zodiac is a Mason who just happens to also be a serial killer. I am quite familar with the Masonic brotherhood, Boaz, Joppa, Tubal Cain

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 04:57 pm:

Well, I'd need to see some pretty serious proof. Not that he couldn't have been a Mason, but short of the kind of free-wheeling extrapolation that most of us have come to deplore, I don't see it. Maybe you can change my mind?

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 06:07 pm:

Douglas, let me digress for a moment. Andrew Todd Walker was once a major suspect in the Zodiac case. Walker attented AA meetings once a week and the lady who ran the apartments was taken to the AA meetings by some detectives to see if she could identify Walker. She said Walker was the same man who had been harrassing her but that he looked so neat- not sloopy like she had seen him. The investigatores were told by a judge to cease their harrassment of Walker. The judge was a Mason. Now speak of the incredible, Walker attended the AA meetings with another man who later became a Zodiac suspect. This man who attended the AA meetings that Walker also went too is a Mason. I do not know if Walker and this man were friends or even associated together. What I find incredible is that we have 2 people who were Zodiac "suspects" Andrew Tood Walker and the man who attented the same AA meeting Andy attended.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) ( - on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 07:37 pm:

Daijove, this thread is called Cheri Jo Bates last days, not All About Masons and Andy Walker.

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 04:15 am:

ok, i just copied and pasted the message under Masonic link. Was that the right place to put it?

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 11:56 am:

I have finally located the labor union records and my man "Bob" did work at Riverside during the time of Cheri Jo Bates murder. He also worked at the San Francisco State college during the time Paul Stine went to college there. If anyone is interested I can provide the address and name of the union involved.

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 09:04 pm:

Daijove: such records would certainly be useful regarding another suspect if they concern welders and other construction workers at RCC in 1966. You should e-mail Howard about that.

By Daijove (Daijove) ( - on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 04:55 pm:

Howard, it was sprinkler fitters local union#483, Burlingame Ca, 46 dngold rd. suite 46 D.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 01:32 pm:

Thank you!BD was with the Pipefitters Union.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 08:47 pm:

A former classmate of Cheri Bates has been contacted.It was noted that some of the girls flirted with some of the construction workers that were engaged in the massive RCC construction project in 66/7.I have done in depth research on this project.See posts on this subject.
There was one worker that showed an 'intense interest'in Cheri Jo by the first name of "Bruce."Of course,Bates did not respond to his "interest."More later.

By Ed N. (Ed_N) ( - on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 10:32 pm:

Curiouser and curiouser...

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 12:00 am:

This took place "about a month" before CJ was murdered.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) ( - on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 08:07 am:

Very interesting, as is always the case with Howard.

Howard, of all the Zodiac crimes, whether confirmed or not, which do you feel has the greatest amount of evidence to guarantee a Bruce Davis conviction?

I'm starting to think that Cheri Jo Bates would get my vote, but I'd rather have your opinion. Cecilia Shepard? Donna Lass?

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 11:07 pm:

There is a lot I won't say now,but let's say Cheri Bates ,in my view and with the full understanding there's a great deal of contraversy surrounding her status as a Zodiac victim-not to mention my suspect as being pretty low on the Zotum pole!
If Zodiac turns out to be someone we know of or a total stranger ,I will be very happy-and I think I speak for everyone,we just want the case cleared for the victims and their families' sake.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) ( - on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 07:38 am:


With a response like that you should be a politician, lol. I'm not trying to corner you for Pete's sake, just honestly asking your opinion.

"I think I speak for everyone,we just want the case cleared for the victims and their families' sake." [Emphasis mine.]

Absolutely! You are including me as a part of the "we" aren't you?

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 02:55 pm:

The former friend of CJB has now seen a picture of Bruce Davis with a moustache and she said the "Bruce" who was "very interested" in Cheri looked very much like this picture.More later.