Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Darlene Ferrin and Mike Mageau: Babysitter/Virgin Islands again

Hello to all. Tom, I was wondering about Graysmith's claim that Darlene Ferrin told "Karen" the babysitter that she saw the infamous "man in the white car" murder someone--Any truth to this, or to the claim that Darlene and her first husband
went to the Virgin Islands?

Thanks for starting a new conversation rather than adding this to an existing discussion...this board will be much more organizded than the other.

The stories you mentioned came from Dee's sister, Pam, who has severe credibility issues. I'm not sure if Karen ever made the same claim, but I doubt it.

Well, Darlene claimed she and Jim hitch-hiked to the Virgin Islands,that should be your first clue!Myself,I think that story was a cover up, for the "place" the killing Darlene may have seen.If thats true, the person killed was stabbed.Thats if you go by the words Darlene wrote on the envelope. Thanks Tom, for getting the board up and running again,I thought I would have to find a 12 step program.( I was starting to get withdrawals)

Anyone know whatever happened to this first husband of Darlene Ferrin? Also where is the babysitter "Karen" now? In my opinion there is alot we could possibly learn by back tracking a bit! This envelope darlene supposably wrote on still around ? Thanks J

Apparently, her first husband is living in or near Santa Cruz. I don't know where Karen is, however. I suspect that, like many of the other players in this case, she is probably still in the Bay Area.

Anonymous wrote:
"Anyone know whatever happened to this first husband of Darlene Ferrin?"

I've been told by another poster that he's still in California. He was an odd bird -- arrested with a gun a few weeks after the BRS attack, and sent a bizarre postcard with a crossed-circle and
a drawing of a hand with middle finger extended to a shop in England.

"....This envelope darlene
supposably wrote on still around ?"

I've seen it, and the two legible words are "testified" and "stuck." Everything else looks like someone trying to get some life out of a dried-up ballpoint. Odd, I guess, but it could mean anything.

--Jake
http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/index.html
"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."

I posted the envelope for about a year, but finally took it down because I can't find cooberation. Was it Darlene's writing? Until I hear it from Dean or the police, I don't believe it.

Tom, I just noticed this post. Are you in possession of the actual envelope?

Tom, please post the envelope again. I along with many others would like to see it.

I just put it up over at my site, free of charge. The URL is http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/darlene.html.

--Jake
http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/index.html
"This is a Non-Profit Web Site..."

Zodiackiller.com is non-profit, too.
In fact, I just need to gross about $10,000 in video sales to break even.

With over 95% profit on your photocopies, I'm sure you're well on your way.

So Esau, what'd you think? Bruce -- still think we're whitewashing Darlene's role in the murders? Anyone see their suspect's name in that loopy, girly script?

--Jake
http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/index.html
"This is a Hobby, Not a Lifestyle..."

Thanks for the link Jake. The only words on that envelope that I can feel confident about recognizing are "hacked" and "testified". I scribble and doodle all day long at work while I'm on the phone. I have never written those words on my scratch pad. The question is why would Darlene write them? If she did witness a murder I'd bet money that it was the Faraday/Jensen murder. Paying cash for a house and shopping at expensive stores? I'd bet that that was blackmail money. A waitress and a cook don't pay cash for a house. Any honest person that has been involved in drugs will probably agree that only the most very successful drug dealers (probably less than 1/10 of 1%) have that kind of money. I still think that the key to this is in Darlene's circle of friends and aquaintances. I think that Mike Mageau knows who the Zodiac is. I will go on record right now saying that I don't think that Arthur Leigh Allen is the Zodiac. Even though he was a professional college student I don't think that he had the education that the letter writer had. I say this because some of the letters and ciphers point to someone with an advanced understanding of mathematics. Some would argue that Allen told people that he was the Zodiac and he had the Zodiac watch and a Z ring. The guy was definitely a nut and I think that if the police messed with this guy as much as I've heard it's possible that he had some type of identity crisis or just wanted to scare people. I don't think that "water" has anything to do with this case. I'm from the Bay Area. There aren't many places in the Bay Area that aren't near water. 'Wash'ington St is a bit of a stretch. Even though Blue Rock Springs has water in the name it is a few miles from Lake Herman or the SF Bay. I think it is possible that the Lake Berryessa composite is just a picture of a guy out for a walk at a lake. I don't take what Graysmith says as if it were coming from the burning bush though I do give him credit for making the case as popular as it is. I guess I have more anwers than questions.

I meant that "I have more questions than answers" on my above post.

Good points, Esau.

I have a xerox of Crabtree's (Darlene's first husband )postcard with the crossed circle and the pointed finger underlined twice.This symbol can stand for the part of fortune in astrology and he was possibly pointing to this for the Blackwell people.The address is Blackwell's, Broad Street, Oxford , England.The return address he gives is :POB 237 Ben Loman, CA 95005. This is near Santa Cruz where he and his wife owned a home in '69.The postcard was returned for added postage-something Z always made sure would'nt happen(I know -not in one case in Riverside!) with his double postage!

Howard is this the home that he got for free? Are you sure he was remarried in 69 ? I know his girlfriend had his baby. If you speak to him, ask him why he lied about not knowing Darlene was killed. He was at the funeral in the back row,who did he think was in the coffin ? I believe the envelope with the z logo and finger, was a ruse for the police to find. The under postage was to make sure it was returned. He knew he was a suspect, and that VPD was about to do a search of his home. What does he look like today? Is he still a hippie? Does his home still flood in the winter? Has he remarried,if so how many times.Does he still like to paint?

Sandy-You probably got the xerox I sent Bruce by now ,so you can see it for yourself. Crabtree's girlfriend's father bought the house for them.The Crabtree sighting at the funeral ,is just that, a sighting supposedly by one or two of the family.I want to hear from him and see what he says.He was not the most respectable guy at the time and if he did go to the funeral he may have thought that it would somehow implicate him in the murder and he wanted to distance himself. The sighting was also with a female purported to be his girlfriend-so since she was present at the questioning by the officers then she was part of the coverup as she did not contradict his statements to the officers.

The theory you have about the envelop can be looked at from different angles.Why would he want to attract attention to himself in this manner if he was afraid to acknowledge he even went to Darlene's funeral? Why would he want to use a Zodiac symbol and not use enough postage? At the time the VPD reports show that the officers requested to search his home and he readily assented-this was in '69.

Our postcard as you will see was postdated in the 70s!That symbol was called part of fortune in Astrology(circle with extended cross beams) and he simply could have been pointing that out to the receiver of the card who dealt in occult books, etc.Yes, Crabtree was into Astrology.As just one example; I have known people to put,say, a railroad symbol on a card of request for railroad collectibles.

Sandy-I am not being judgmental of your postulates as this is an open case,I am asking why. Since I did not know or speak to him I cannot make any firm conclusions.VPD ruled him out as a suspect in the Zodiac case.Just some little pieces of info on Crabtree. The police found that he had very poor eyesight and had to wear the Pepsi/Coke bottle glasses.They questioned Mageau and he was sure that the assailant was not wearing glasses-and it was night when glasses for someone who had very poor eyesight would have been a must. I know he had on contacts 7/5/69!Also, he did not have the stocky build and this was another rule out.He seemed to have had a good alibi for the evening of the Fourth.I will do my best to question him if he will cooperate.You have been very diligent in your researches and this laudable.

Karen ,the famed babysitter, lives near Fairfield and her mother was a friend of Bobbie Ramos the lady who knew Darlene. On her last interview which I have on tape, Bobbie says that Darlene and Crabtree, her first husband, did go to the Virgin Islands.Darlene's father, in an interview, said the same thing. He said that Darlene brought a guy over to his home that she met at the VI and that he had "closed cropped hair and a round face."I am in the process of getting more info from him.Christina,Darlene's younger sister, told me the same thing -Darlene and Crabtree went to the virgin Islands. In a VPD report Darlene's mother says that they went to the VI and that Crabtree told her he owned a newspaper there!Crabtree worked for a very short time at the Fairfield paper.

From what I see at this time, it is not Crabtree, but another "man' that Darlene traveled around the country with when she was in her teens,and this was before she met Crabtree in SF.She told Buzz Gordon , an officer she had been dating ,that she and this man were involved in an occult group and she wanted out ,but she was afraid for her family as there were threats against her and the family that she pretty much kept to herself.This man was older than her and he was seen with Darlene and followed her at times in vallejo. She admitted that she had been involved in drugs and the occult and that she was sorry for that and wanted to change.She would not give the name of the man, but did give hints as to his description.

Howard, this new info sounds promising. Any idea where this cult that Darlene allegedly belonged to was based?

Thanks,
Oddball

The Process Church was in Nassau at the same time that DF was said to be touring the islands. They had left England and were scouting around for a new venue.

Oddball-Alan is correct. As a matter of fact(I have their journals) an intense storm during that period caused the P group to redefine their mission,etc.There were any number of cults there and in other places -so we don't know for sure which one- if any, was involved with the couple at that time.Darlene told former officer Buzz Gordon that she traveled the country with an older man and they were involved in the occult and drugs. She told Gordon this was before she knew Crabtree. This is why Crabtree-Dee's ex could be of great help.

Thanks, guys. For awhile, I was afraid that the cult thing was groundless...but, as I say, this does sound promising.

Howard, Buzz and I dated for a few years, before and after Dee was killed. He told me that the small light "brown" car, was at BRS when Darlene pulled up. Mike M said the car looked like Dee's ex's car. That car left , and came back a short time later, the rest we know. If the older man was the same man that Matt saw many times,then I think someone should take the time to hear what he has to say! I spoke to Buzz a few years ago , he said the guy Dee was so afraid of, was a ol'e hippie. Her ex was a ol'e hippie.The divorce papers show that the two of them traveled from state to state. I was told by Dee's sister, that she and Crabtree went to the VI with a man they called "Honcho". I think it would be helpful to find out who this guy is. The info you gave Bruce I had already, it came from Jake . The picture I have of Crabtree I found my self,if you would like a copy of it e mail me. The picture shows a young man about 18 yrs old, crew cut, glasses, high cheek bones.Too much like the z composite! I am not saying he is Z, I was amused at the likeness. I am sure we know that people can get alibis for a cover up,and just because the police dismiss a perp doesn't mean they are not the perp. The one thing that I would like a copy of, is a drawing I gave to VPD of a suspect I told them about, that is in Darlenes homicide report. I have read the report ,it shows it is attached, but I couldn't find it. If you or anyone has that drawing, I would like to see it, thank you for your input.

Sandy- Please e me Howard

Howard, check your email. sandy