I don't think he quit


Zodiackiller.com Message Board: General Zodiac Discussion: I don't think he quit


By Chynakall (spider-tn043.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.207.63) on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 09:48 pm:

I agree on the theory that he moved on just as he said he would. I do have some questions here. I've researched several serial killers and some unsolved cases as well. I don't have any ideas as to Z. whereabouts or activities at this time. He'd be very old to still be active. But my question is this: has anyone considered the Sonoma Co-ed killings? I've spent quite awhile looking for info on the Sonoma Co-ed killings and can't seem to locate anything. Does anyone know if this was ever solved, if so, how? My next question, since I remember reading somewhere at some time, these started about 1974. Could the Zodiac have been this killer too? Also, if anyone knows of a web site or web page with info on the Sonoma cases, please forward it to Chynakall@aol.com

By Ed N. (spider-wc043.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.193.38) on Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 01:12 am:

Read Graysmith's Zodiac. He theorized that Z murdered the Sonoma Co. victims. I don't know if there are any websites about them, however.

By Chynakall (spider-wg053.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.196.43) on Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 09:30 am:

Thank you so much for your quick response. I was beginning to think I'd lost my mind (could be.). I don't like to work on memory alone. I will check out Graysmith Zodiac. I would like a way to document the evidence in the Sonoma killings, if for no other reason, to rule them out. That process at this point seems impossible as Z. changed his mo too much. There is a mentality here that's well above most of us and frightening that its so warped. I don't think that Z. is still out there and a threat at his age now, but there are others. There is much we could learn from Z.

By Ed N. (spider-mtc-td083.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.104.188) on Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 02:27 pm:

Apparently, the cops concluded that all of those murders were committed by the same perp, and there were some vague similarities to Z, and so the connection was made, but it's unclear in Zodiac who made it and why, but it was probably Graysmith. Doesn't mean they were committed by Z, but perhaps by someone who copycatted him or who happened to have similar MO/signature.

It's possible that Sonoma Co. sheriff Don Striepeke may have originated that theory. He is referenced in both The Encyclopedia of American Crime (p. 784) and The Encyclopedia of World Crime (Volume IV, p. 3221), where he is said to have determined that some 40 unsolved murders in four western states were committed by the same perp. He suggested that the killer, who he apparently thought was Z, was plotting a giant "Z" pattern over several western states. Presumably, this is how the Sonoma murders fit into the Z case.

By Ed N. (spider-mtc-td083.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.104.188) on Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 02:30 pm:

Oops... it was page 3222 in Volume IV of The Encyclopedia of World Crime.

By Ken (1cust160.tnt2.burlington.nc.da.uu.net - 63.39.25.160) on Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 07:06 pm:

Chynakall, check out this site for more on the Sonoma killings.

http://www.se7en-x.com/zodiac/unsolved.htm

Ken

By Oscar (dialup-209.245.67.136.losangeles1.level3.net - 209.245.67.136) on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 12:59 am:

Chynakall,
I have wondered the same about the so-called Sonoma co-ed killings, especially after reading Graysmith's book. One book that you might want to check out is Michael Newton's "Still at Large: A Casebook of 20th Century Serial Killers Who Eluded Justice". This book does talk about the aforementioned case, but also highlights some others that are intriguing. Of note:
1. p.10-12. The "Astrological" murders that took place in California in 1969-? The police managed to connect nine victims to the same killer-a killer murdered on important astrological days/nights. There is mention of the Zodiac and of Graysmith.
2.p.198-199. The "Occult" murders, California, 1972-75. Once again, Zodiac and Graysmith are mentioned.
3.p.7. The "Alameda County Murders", California,1983-84. Four teenage girls killed.
There is no conclusiive proof that these have naything to do with the Zodiac case, especially the last one, but, like you, I have spent a fair bit of time wondering about those intangible "what ifs". Zodiac did say that he would alter his methods so that we would never be able to tell it was a Z-crime! For a man who liked games (and viewed murder as an abstraction), this would be the ultimate game.

By Chalandra (Chalandra) (tsway1-118.du.gate.net - 207.36.1.245) on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 07:03 am:

I thought this would be the appropiate place to post this message.

Yesterday morning I checked my e-mail and had recieved a threat that said this:

(my name) must die

Z

I guess this means Zodiac hasn't quit? Perhaps I am investigating the correct suspect afterall and am getting too close for comfort?
Does anybody have any thoughts on this e-mail I recieved?

By Edward (Edward) (adsl-63-204-73-145.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net - 63.204.73.145) on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 09:41 am:

Sending death threats via email is against the law, Chalandra. There's a new system called "CARNIVORE" that searches these people out through the various threads and methods they use. No one should be receiving threats like that for visiting a website.
Most likely, it's someone you know. Report it to your internet provider or your local police. People are being prosecuted for sending less threatening notes.

Edward

By Chalandra (Chalandra) (tsway1-70.du.gate.net - 207.36.1.197) on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 09:56 am:

Edward,
I have already taken the proper action of reporting it to the county criminal investigations division and to my internet service provider. Someone is in BIG TROUBLE!!!!!!

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (acab902c.ipt.aol.com - 172.171.144.44) on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 11:03 am:

I have received hundreds of such threats.

By Jake Wark (Jake) (spider-th062.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.213.72) on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 06:37 pm:

Tom, I sent those.

--Jake
http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/index.html
"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."

By Eduard Versluijs (Eduard) (erasmuscollege.nl - 194.109.60.77) on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 12:53 am:

Jake,

You liar...
20 were from me!

--Eduard

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (ac9ae78e.ipt.aol.com - 172.154.231.142) on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 12:58 am:

I can't picture the real Zodiac sending an e-mail.

By Eduard Versluijs (Eduard) (erasmuscollege.nl - 194.109.60.77) on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 06:33 am:

You are not telling me that I am the real Zodiac, are you Tom?

--Eduard

By Michael Mc (Michaelmc) (1cust4.tnt3.lancaster.pa.da.uu.net - 63.26.0.4) on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 02:42 pm:

Thank heavens, a confession now we can all find something else to do.

Michael

Ps I have recieved much worse threats than that.

By Oscar (Oscar) (pool0909.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net - 209.178.191.144) on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 10:14 pm:

To Whom...,
I recently heard of a case where a man was being prosecuted for sending death threats, via internet, to a former lover. He was aquitted because he claimed that, yes, he did write them, but he did not send them! This person maintains that his new girlfriend would read the messages and then transfer them to e-mail and send them. He claimed he wrote them as a therapeutic exercise. Yah...right! Only in America!!
I have received a few threats myself, but ususally from irate board members who shall go unnamed.
Oscar.
p.s. Penn in 2004. Stuff the bird!

By Maxson (Maxson) (ip-20-152-185.chicago-n.navipath.net - 64.20.152.185) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 11:51 am:

If I may get us back on topic a bit...
The very first posting on this topic was about the Sonoma co-ed killings. Well last year (I've been waiting that long to find anyone who was interested in hearing this story) two Chicago
co-eds were taking Spring Break in Puerto Rico. Well they were killed but what caught my interest when I saw this on the news was how similar these killings were to Graysmith's explanation of the Sonoma co-ed killings as well as Zodiac in general. Aside from the age of the victims, they were killed on one of the four solar events of the year (two solstices and two equinoxes) and Graysmith pointed out Zodiac tended to strike around those days. Also, the two girls were thrown along side the road like the Sonoma girls and their car was driven miles down the road and torched like Kathleen Johns. This interested me and it got me thinking if someone could be copy-catting the Zodiac. I guess I have some trouble thinking Z is still killing (or sending E-Mails).

By Alanc (Alanc) (spider-wa043.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.192.38) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 03:56 pm:

If somebody is copying Z, it wouldn't be the first time. We had a loon here in NYC a few years back who swiped the handle for his dumb little spree.

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (aca7e663.ipt.aol.com - 172.167.230.99) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 05:33 pm:

Plus the Japan copycat a few years ago...

By Maxson (Maxson) (ip-20-149-156.chicago-n.navipath.net - 64.20.149.156) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 07:44 pm:

Tom, I read about the Japan copycat in Unabomber. Is there any more stuff about him Internet or otherwishe?

By Sandy (Sandy) (c531918-a.ptbrg1.sfba.home.com - 24.176.152.45) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 10:15 pm:

He was caught soon after. I think it was Kobe Japan or something that sounds like that, it was a sea port town.

By Oscar (Oscar) (pool0002.cvx37-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net - 216.244.24.2) on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 03:40 am:

Maxson,
There is a small article in an Asian journal. I will look it up. In fact, I believe I have a clipping somewhere around here. Let me move some empties around. I'll get back to you on this.
Oscar.
p.s. Penn in 2004. Can't be worse than Bush!

By Chrissy (Chrissy) (dial-63.farmtel.net - 209.207.16.63) on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 10:33 pm:

Dear Chalandra:

For curiosity alone, who were you investigating when you had the problem? You are not under any obligation to answer if you do not wish to, but the question does beg asking.

Chrissy Shaw

By Chalandra (Chalandra) (tsway1-75.du.gate.net - 207.36.1.202) on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:07 am:

Chrissy,

My suspect is my ex-boss. I have finally been able to track him to Washington State which means he could have very easily went to California many many times especially in the field of work he was in at the time.

By Bryan (Bryan) (144.141.27.172) on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 03:55 pm:

http://www.se7en-x.com/zodiac/unsolved.htm

was all of this copied from the book the zodiac
Bryan

By Ed N. (Edn) (spider-ntc-ta063.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.16.48) on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:30 pm:

That's linked on my fledgling website.

The Zodiac Files

By The Giant (Bryan) (144.141.27.172) on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 07:41 am:

Edn,
But you did'nt copy your site from a book
Bryan

By Ed N. (Edn) (spider-ntc-tc074.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.17.54) on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 09:56 am:

This is true. Jackson Garland did the same thing, btw. I was just pointing out that I had a link to the site.

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-63.212.139.45.losangeles1.level3.net - 63.212.139.45) on Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 01:34 am:

My suspect was arrested on 12/2/70 and thereafter we don't have any canonical Zodiac victims. My guy was incarcerated at L.A. County jail in 71' and for the FIRST time a Zodiac letter is sent to the L.A.Times in 71'!The postmark was Pleasanton, CA. The city was named after Gen. Alfred Pleasanton(military /symbolism /connection?&Gen. Vallejo)and there was an army base there.Two of the Manson girls were, at one time ,incarcerated at the federal facility there.After this missive we have only ONE postcard ,a pasteup ,referring to Donna Lass sent on the anniversary of the Johns' abduction-and nothing until 1/8/74'due ,I believe, to the Zebra (black Muslim killings)crimes in S.F.This is something that would bring joy to a Manson follower-the Revolution is on-blacks are finally starting to kill whitey wholesale and in S.F. after all!

By Michael Mc (Michaelmc) (1cust7.tnt1.lancaster.pa.da.uu.net - 63.17.97.7) on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 08:41 pm:

Howard, Have you ever interviewed Bruce Davis? If so have you asked him if the Manson family was involved? If not why not interview one of the other mansonites who are trying for parole help on the Z case would be viewed most favorably by the parole board.

Michael

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-63.210.121.62.losangeles1.level3.net - 63.210.121.62) on Monday, February 05, 2001 - 12:39 am:

Michael-I wrote him over a long period of time. When I would ask him a question like, had he ever been to Riverside ,he would not give me a straight answer;instead he would ask me what I was going to do there!I later found out from a former high school teacher that taught in Riverside, that Bruce told him he did 'live in Riverside for a time'. If you knew who this man was you would know why Davis told him that valuable info.I asked B if he had ever been to S.F. and no answer.Well, I knew he had been there( and Berkeley} periodically. When I asked about Lake Tahoe no response,yet it was brought out in Ds parole hearing in July of 2000, that he had worked there and used a fake drivers license.When I asked if he ever owned or drove a Studebaker(having in mind the old Stud' seen the night of the Bates 87') no answer. After several letters he finally said he had owned a '60 Chevy!The Family had an "old Studebaker" ,according to Paul Watkins,but I was unable to find out how
they got it.


A friend asked Davis if he knew anything about the Zodiac crimes and if he may have been involved; D told him that he 'was not accused of those crimes, so he would not speak with him about it'!He was quite startled with that response ,as he had told me D would talk to him due to their long friendship. Bruce told him not to talk to me. Davis had been writing one of the former Grand Jury members that had convicted him back in the 70s and all was well, until she asked Davis about the Zodiac crimes. There has been no answer to date!

One last aside. A British interviewer with BBC ,was instructed by us to ask Davis if he ever was in Riverside, which was one of the many kinds of questions that Ds lawyer had on the no no list.When Mr. Murphy asked the R question ,Davis' arm/elbow that was propping his chin on the table,slipped off the table and his face reddened he stuttered and said he could only answer the approved questions that were before them! The interviewer was amazed to say the least!There's a lot more.

By Michael Mc (Michaelmc) (1cust24.tnt5.lancaster.pa.da.uu.net - 63.44.171.24) on Monday, February 05, 2001 - 04:04 pm:

Very interesting.....Howard i am with Bill on this one. I dont think that the Manson bunch is the "Z" I do think that they are responsible for many more homicides than anyone knows. And i do think that Davis is probably one of the most prolific in the family.

Michael

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-64.156.147.157.losangeles1.level3.net - 64.156.147.157) on Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 01:04 am:

Michael-No problem,but can you tell me why Davis could not be involved in the Z killings and why he does not fit?-just curious.

By The Giant (Bryan) (bu-wcs3-sand.nipr.mil - 198.26.130.38) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 08:31 am:

Howard,
I think (from the extra long text) that anyone with the last name of Davis automaticly turns into one of Your suspects.
Bryan

By Michael Mc (Michaelmc) (1cust37.tnt1.lancaster.pa.da.uu.net - 63.17.97.37) on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 07:23 pm:

Howard, If you would like to get into detail we could do that by e-mail......however my problems with Bruce Davis as Zodiac are really the nature of the crimes known to have been committed by "Z" and the crimes known to have been "Family". I have some problems with Motive....and the nature of the communcations to the newspaper in the case of Z and the lack of communication in known Manson cases. I truely think that the solution is in the "core" Z cases and SB. Like i said i would like to go into this in more depth but e mail would be a better forum.

Michael

By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 64.30.209.40) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 06:04 pm:

Michael- My e -mail is:antaresresearch@hotmail.com. I take it that you have read my book and the new information supplement before you came to your "conclusion"?Not that you would have another opinion ,just that it leads to more detailed knowledgeable discussions relative to the particular topic we are to focus on - was Manson the mastermind behind the Zodiac killings and was there ,as Dave Peterson asserted ,'other people' involved bringing in some changes in MO/signature,and does their backgrounds reflect in the Zodiac case. Also, it takes several years of study to master what Manson and Davis were all about-and you will not find this stuff in some of the books out there!This is why I am curious.See, we are considering two cases and if ones knowledge is insufficient in either one its makes for difficult discussion.I am not implying you don't have a lack of knowledge as I don't know you -I just want to know if you base your conviction on BOTH cases(assuming you really know the Manson case). That goes for me too! Thanks, Howard