Zodiackiller.com Message Board: General Zodiac Discussion: Masonic Link?
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p179.as1.virginia1.eircom.net - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 02:27 pm:|
Just wanted to throw out a couple of things about this case that may or may not
suggest a Masonic link.
Rightly or wrongly what first got me thinking along these lines was the Halloween Card.I associated the 13 eyes on the card with the "all seeing eye" and the significance of the number 13 (as applied to Masonry)on the American Dollar bill.
We also have in Masonry the significance of the number 3.
Among the obvious associations are the 3 letters sent on the same date after the CJB killing.The first Cipher sent in 3 parts.But what about the LB crime?.Firstly it had a whole ritualistic feel to it.We also have Zodiac's message "by Knife" which could also suggest Ritual.But possibly most important is the date and timing ...27th day of the 9th month on the 6th day of the week at 6.30
All the above numbers are divisible by 3.
According to Graysmith Zodiac made his call at a point exactly 27 miles from the crime scene.
Other things of note:-
1.Zodiac's 7th Letter had 7 pages claiming 7 victims.It was sent or received on a Sunday the 7th day of the week.
2.The 4th of July murder
3.Another Masonic symbol..the compass.Zodiac uses it in his bomb threat where he also gives us a cipher 32 characters in length...2nd Degree.!
4.Halloween card again...Your Secret Pal.
5.Bryan and Howard also made reference to other possibilities
6.Zynchronicity or Symbolism???
The Stine Murder......Most Masonic rituals include Stone.
Stine picked up Zodiac at MASON and Geary
His destination was WASHINGTON and Cherry.Washington a famous Mason.
The name Stine derives from German Stein meaning Stone.
Anyone see anything else or have an opinion?
|By Sandy (Sandy) (c531918-a.ptbrg1.sfba.home.com - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 06:40 pm:|
Lapumo,I think you could be on to something!! I knew 7 was a important number to him, also the number 3. On one of my early post I wrote the calls came in three. Take a look at your phone and the number 3.And let me know what you think about that one?
|By Ed N (Ed_N) (spider-ntc-tc064.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 07:10 pm:|
Remember there was a Masonic temple located a couple of blocks from 1231 Main St. in Napa. It used to be right where the parking garage is now on 2nd St., across the street from the court house where the last public execution in the state of California was carried out over a century ago...
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p113.as2.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 12:59 pm:|
Sandy wrote-"take a look at your phone and the number 3.And let me know what you
Sorry Sandy you lost me.MY phone?
|By Ed N (Ed_N) (acb5c5a7.ipt.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 08:09 pm:|
Lapumo: what letters are on the #3 button on your phone? "DEF," which just happens to be the initials of Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin. That's what she was getting at.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p73.as2.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 03:21 am:|
DOH! Thank you Ed.Yes it is interesting.I would also note the "ME-37" at the
end of the Exorcist
Letter,which I still do not believe relates to victims.
Ed,remember the "evolution of alphabet"item.Two things.
1.Does not Z derive from G.
2.On the proposed meaning to the Symbol on the Halloween card ie the initials we discussed.
From the same card we have 13 eyes and written above the skeleton we have 4-teen.Also we have I believe "sorry no cipher" written twice in the form of an "X".I do note in Freemasonry a multiple of 13,that is 13x14=182 is the value of the name Jacob.
I also wonder as the crossed circle and Z appear
alongside each other on the card if they did not have different meanings to Zodiac himself.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p8.as1.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 02:58 pm:|
Chalandra posted in the Theories section under
"13 slaves and the afterlife" about the signinig of the Declaration if Independence and the stamps on the letters.Including a person named Button,that somehow seems to tie into the above theory.Is there something here that needs to be looked at? Anyone any opinions to share?
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust253.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 04:11 am:|
Andrew Todd Walker was once a major suspect in the Zodiac case. Walker attented AA meetings once a week and the lady who ran the apartments was taken to the AA meetings by some detectives to see if she could identify Walker. She said Walker was the same man who had been harrassing her but that he looked so neat- not sloopy like she had seen him. The investigatores were told by a judge to cease their harrassment of Walker. The judge was a Mason. Now speak of the incredible, Walker attended the AA meetings with another man who later became a Zodiac suspect. This man who attended the AA meetings that Walker also went too is a Mason. I do not know if Walker and this man were friends or even associated together. What I find incredible is that we have 2 people who were Zodiac "suspects" Andrew Tood Walker and the man who attented the same AA meeting Andy attended.
|By Judy (Judy) (waf-dc27-186.rasserver.net - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:29 am:|
Daijove, who is the other man besides Walker you
are referring to as another Zodiac suspect?
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust45.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:48 am:|
Judy, I like so many of us who are seriously involved in the Zodiac case have sources who do not wish to be revealved. Tom has his sources. This is what I can tell you. A private investigator was hired to find out the identity of Andrew Todd Walker. The investigator found out his identity plus the fact that another man who attended the same AA meetings was also considered a prime "suspect". It was this man who went to the judge and asked him to stop the harrassment of Andy Walker. Talk about irony, here we have a Zodiac suspect helping another Zodiac suspect. I read the investigators report but the man's name had been blacked out. All I know is that this man who apparently knew Walker was a Mason and worked as a pipefitter or something along those lines. It was not me who hired the investigator but I do have privy to all the information that is relevant to this "suspect". I need to ask Tom how to handle this on a public posting board before I continue any further along these lines.
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (12-224-186-54.client.attbi.com - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:55 am:|
Been there, done that.
"Walker" is a guy named Grant in Fairfield, Calif. I've interviewed him twice. He has a big, booming voice with a thick, unmistakable accent.
Darlene's sister, Pam, once claimed Grant was the man following Darlene in the months prior to her death, and that Grant had been the mysterious stranger at the Ferrin's painting party. Since then, Lawrence Kane has become the mysterious man.
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust29.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 11:58 am:|
Tom, I am not saying that Grant is the Zodiac. what I am saying is that the man who helped Grant may be the Zodiac. As I stated earlier Grant and this man attended the same AA meetings and that both men were considered Zodiac suspects, apparently Grant has been eliminated but what about the other man? Who is lawrence Kane?
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust29.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 12:07 pm:|
Lapumo, the Masonic fraternity is represented by the oblong square with the soltice points at each corner with Osiris sitting in the center of the square as the "Lord of the Dead" this oblong square is called the Zodiac. Also Osiris is represented by the symbol Zodiac used. In the Osirian mysteries the sacred drama is carried out on a lake on a Saturday at the full moon. The ritual starts with the new moon and is completed at the full moon. The most sacred numbers in masonary are 3, 6 and 9. Everything in masonary is dependent on Sacred Geometry.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 01:40 pm:|
We have a Masonic thread.Of course,3,6,9 are related to the compass on the '66 Z map.I am not saying there is a Masonic connection to the map,only that the degrees(can't get away from it!) are written on the map.FYI/ZYI
|By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (120.sanfrancisco-12rh16rt-ca.dial-access.att.net - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 07:26 pm:|
Get on the Square, pilgrim!
|By Bryan (The_Giant) (188.8.131.52) on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 12:22 pm:|
Your information about the numbers 3,6,9 being ritual or sacred is wrong. Not everyone
that signed the DOI was a mason. Howard's post is closer to a masonic idea, by the way how
far is the Stein site away from the California Grande Lodge?
|By Bryan (The_Giant) (184.108.40.206) on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 02:18 pm:|
Andrew Todd Walker was once a major suspect in the Zodiac case. Walker attented AA meetings once a week and the lady who ran the apartments was taken to the AA meetings by some detectives to see if she could identify Walker. She said Walker was the same man who had been harrassing her but that he looked so neat- not sloopy like she had seen him. The investigatores were told by a judge to cease their harrassment of Walker. The judge was a Mason.
How do you know? Whats the name of the Judge?
Now speak of the incredible, Walker attended the AA meetings with another man who later became a Zodiac suspect. This man who attended the AA meetings that Walker also went too is a Mason. I do not know if Walker and this man were friends or even associated together. What I find incredible is that we have 2 people who were Zodiac "suspects" Andrew Tood Walker and the man who attented the same AA meeting Andy attended.
Im not a member of AA and anyone please correct me but are there a dozen of people at AA meetings? What lodge did the MAN and Walker belong to?
What better place for Zodiac to operate and hide in but a Masonic Lodge. Ed mentioned a masonic temple in an earlier post. Just image Zodiac being a Mason who has access to much information because of that affilation.
I would like to know where in your opinion where in a Masonic lodge would he hide. Im going to tell you little bit about our oath. I will keep the secrets of a brother the same of mine murder and treason excepted. Another thing about being a Mason the Zodiac could not have been a mason, he didnt believe in God.
If Zodiac turns out to be a Mason it would not reflect on the Masonic order in any way or fashion. You have crazies in almost any organization today and the masonic order is not without exception.
Since 1983 when I joined Freemasonry Ive meet several people. Ive never met any crazies So give me proof since its also in our oath that crazies cant be members.
Many years ago there was a serial killer case where the killer turned out to belong to the masons and that his being a Mason had hindered the investigation because of that fact.
Where are you getting your facts? Give me proof. I want names, dates, cities and lodge names
Anyway it is just my "belief" that Zodiac is a Mason who just happens to also be a serial killer. I am quite familar with the Masonic brotherhood, Boaz, Joppa, Tubal Cain
Just because you may or may not know some key words doesnt make you familiar with the fraternity. So give me the Mason that mad you angry or the lodge that turned you down for membership to start mudslinging Freemasonry. The only documented instance of Freemasons influencing a court was after the kidnapping and Murder of Capt Morgan in the little finger lakes over a hundred years ago. And not that it was right but he gave up the secrets of his lodge.
I find it interesting about a year and a half ago I asked you about the Manson and Freemason connection and you didnt have any information. But now you have seen signs and such? Ive never seen Manson or Davis give any signs? Can you please give an example?
|By Esau (Esau) (12-246-187-137.client.attbi.com - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 02:49 am:|
I've been to an AA meeting with only 4 or 5 people in attendance. On the other hand I've also been to some with close to 100 people in attendance. It just depends on the size of that particular autonomous group and which night of the week one were to drop in (just as in bars you'll find more people there on a Saturday night than on a Tuesday night).
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (193.philadelphia06rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 18.104.22.168) on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 08:09 am:|
Consider that Masonry is a highly fraternal organization. It's not the kind of thing where you send in your dues money, receive your monthly journal in the mail and leave the actual fraternity to a handful of organization heavyweights, such as we see in so many hobby clubs. Given what we can postulate about Zodiac's social skills, I seriously doubt that he belonged to such an organization.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-18.linkline.com - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:53 am:|
I have given several posts on a possible Masonic connection.I may have missed your post.Not that I think Z was a Mason,but someone that knew enough about its signs and symbols.etc.,to have been an influence in some of Zodiacs occultic leanings which I firmly believe are reflected in his 'activities.'I don't think it went as far as selecting MASON and Geary as the area to hail a cab!
It is common knowledge that Manson studied Masonary in prison and that in picutes and films he gives a Masonic sign at times.This has been pointed out by Manson writers and some that were part of the M Group.What Manson knew Davis learned and when he lectured the Group they told me it was just like Manson!Davis was the only person allowed to wear CMs vest and the two were quite close and shared knowledge and info with each other.They were the fulfillment of"Just The Two of Us Sending Letters and Postcards,"(a Beatle song) as I have been told.
Just because CM studied Masonary or any other subject,doesn't reflect on that system or subject in any manner.It is always the incorrect use of knowledge by a criminal that we should focus on and Masonary is one example of this.They take something and twist it for their own purposes and CM is a good example of this unfortunate fact.
Incidentally,I am familiar with the Captain Morgan incident and have read a lot of the original news accounts of that time period.Who Morgan knew fit in with an historical research project/book that I worked on.People were quite outraged by the Morgan affair and it fed the anti Mansonic organizations,as you know,at that time and later on.
|By Bryan (The_Giant) (126.96.36.199) on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:06 pm:|
You impress me almost every time you post.
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (12-224-139-118.client.attbi.com - 188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 12:37 am:|
Bryan, if you think Howard's posts are good, you should see his dolphin shirt. (Inside joke.)
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-28.linkline.com - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 12:59 am:|
Tom -leave my fav'shirt out of this-and my friends the dolphins!As Zodiac researchers
we need to be near water!
Your priest outfit was dull in comparison father Nelson(inside joke)..now you turn the acetate...
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust178.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:10 pm:|
Bryan, how do you know Zodiac didn't believe in God? You are assuming just because Zodiac killed people that he did not have any particular belief system. There are serial killers who kill poeple because God told them too. As for the masonic connection Zodiac has demonstrated knowledge that may pertain to the masonic brotherhood. Many sexual socialpaths have an amazing ability to hide their peverse side and in many cases are your perfectly normal next door neighbor. Too many people think serial killers should look and act like monsters and when they are caught everyone is suprised...my..my he was my next door neighbor..so nice..so loving...this scenerio happens time and time again with apprehended serial killers. Most serial killers are intelligent ,may have families and outwardly may appear to be the ideal citizen. You take offense because I suggest Zodiac may have belonged to the masonic brotherhood. Perhaps the reason why Zodiac hasn't been apprehended is because of this very fact. How could a mason and a recovering alcoholic ever be the infamous zodiac killer. It is this type of thinking that excludes the possibility that Zodiac may in fact be a recovering alcoholic and also a Mason. To tell you what lodge this "MAN" belonged to would not be wise at this time because he is a "suspect" and naming a specific lodge would cast a negative reflection on the lodge that might not be welcome.
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust5.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:04 am:|
Religious cultist Jim Jones, who, the controlled news media alleged, induced hundreds
of his followers to commit mass suicide in Guyana by drinking poisoned Kool-Aid (actually,
most were murderedbut that's another story) was both a Communist and a vile
homosexual. Jim Jones was also a leading Democratic Party boss in California and a loyal
initiate of the Masonic Lodge. The filthy Reverend Jones had his choice of boys, girls,
and grown-ups among his "congregation"
as sex partners Bill Clinton and a former pal, Arkansas Governor, Winthrop Rockefeller, had a fling. Winthrop, of the monied Rockefeller family, was well known as a homosexual. It is also possible that Clinton was himself abused and molested as a youthful member of the Masonic Lodge's DeMolay organization.
Albert Pike, the 19th century occultist who, as Masonry's Sovereign Grand Commander, created its rituals for the 33 degrees of the craft, was himself a notorious sodomite
Grand Lodge of Ontario, Canada Master Mason, Serial Killer, and Serial Rapist Paul Bernardo
'Freemasonry takes good men and makes them better'
At one point Bernardo was on the top of the Police Department's suspect list when he was terrorizing women in the Toronto suburb of Scarborough with his years long rape spree.
Police strangely never completed his D.N.A. test until three years later when contacted by Niagara Police detectives, even though premliminary tests had showed he was one of the only five out of several hundred suspects who whose blood type had fit the initial screening test done from semen samples collected from the victims. When his DNA test was finally done it was a perfect match!
Unfortunately by then Bernardo had graduated to his grisley rape-mutilation killing rampage with his depraved wife Karla Holmolka.
There are so many inexplicable oversights in the police investigation related to Bernardo including specific repeated complaints by some of Bernardo's former girlfriends that police discounted because after the initial interviewing of Bernardo they said he didn't seem like a serial rapist. Furthermore the witness i.d. sketch made of Bernardo, which was an exact likeness of him, was not released by Police for years after the rapes had started.
Did some members of Bernardo's Masonic Lodge who were also members of the Metropolitan Toronto Police recognize the likeness portrayed in the artist's sketch of the Scarborough Rapist?
Did the large Police Officer Masonic Lodge Membership cloud some Detectives judgement about 'Brother' Bernardo's suitability as a suspect? How many Scarborough Police Officers were members of Scarborough Rapist Paul Bernardo's Scarborough Masonic Lodge?
Did the intelligent, cunning, and manipulative Bernardo invoke his 'Masonic Cable Tow' and 'Sign of Distress' to escape arrest, or sideline the investigation?
Is Freemasonry the missing piece to the puzzle of how the Police could have failed for so long to stop Bernardo, including the ignoring of repeated tips about him, that has raised so many questions in the public's mind?
Just ask the famed British Brinks Mat gold bullion criminal Kenneth Noye. He intentionally joined a Masonic lodge filled with police officers to give him the extra "edge" he needed.
Bryan our history is full of Masons who have abused the privalige of the brotherhood. I could post at least 20 more instances where serial killers have been Masons.
|By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (204.sanfrancisco-12rh15rt-ca.dial-access.att.net - 22.214.171.124) on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 09:10 pm:|
Maybe William Gull was the Zodiac.
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust92.tnt2.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 01:00 pm:|
Wow, Jack the Ripper alias Willam Gull begat his great great grandson Zodiac.
|By Daijove (Daijove) (1cust135.tnt2.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 06:21 pm:|
THE IMPORTANCE OF KENNETH NOYE
Some months ago we published that Kenneth Noye (the road rage killer) was a member of Hammersmith Masonic Lodge. He was in the top league of criminals and a multi-millionaire. Amongst his associates were senior politicians and policemen. This illustrates the degeneracy of the police and of Freemasonry. You will recall that the Kray twins coerced young boys to go with Tom Driberg, MP and Lord Boothby. Harold Wilson stopped the police going after the Krays lest there was a political scandal. Homosexuality was unlawful. Exploiting young boys in that fashion was a serious crime. The consequence was that the Krays were allowed to carry on killing. Boothby was also having sexual intercourse with Harold McMillan's wife Dorothy.
It is now accepted that Noye murdered Stephen Cameron and undercover policeman John Fordham. Noye's solicitors knew that the forensic evidence showed that Fordham had been stabbed while his arms were pinioned away from his body. Is that not misprision of felony? Noye is also believed to be responsible for the death of many others including persons murdered by proxy while he was in prison. Many prison officers are Masons and all senior prison officers must be Masons. In the Fordham case there is a probability that a police Mason warned Noye that Fordham was in his garden and unarmed. Policemen, in or out of uniform, when they gang up with the criminal fraternity, are criminals of the worst sort. Senior officers are quite capable of ordering the shooting of anyone opposed to them and they are quite capable of using police marksmen to do the killing.
A police spokesman admits that Noye made his escape after the road rage murder by using his Masonic contacts. The police must have known where Noye was in hiding almost from the day of the killing. Noye's wife visited him.
OK, I feel I have made my point to Bryan. You cannot exclude anyone on the basis of affiliation, sexual preferences, and social standing when you are searching for a serial killer.