Arc Welder


Zodiackiller.com Message Board: General Zodiac Discussion: Arc Welder

By Michael D. Brown (205.149.107.164) on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 06:35 pm:

Any evidence the Zodiac could have been an Arc Welder?

By Kevin M (cx206582-c.mesa1.az.home.com - 24.21.120.22) on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 08:56 pm:

Just curious.... why do you ask "Arc Welder"?

By Anonymous (24.69.126.99.bc.wave.home.com - 24.69.126.99) on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 09:03 pm:

what is an "Arc Welder"?

By Anonymous (205.149.107.164) on Friday, August 25, 2000 - 12:52 pm:

Kevin,
It's a long story. But the bottom line is obvious.

Anonymous,
Dictionary.

All things come to he who waits.

Michael Brown

By Michael (ip11.lancaster5.pa.pub-ip.psi.net - 38.32.27.11) on Saturday, August 26, 2000 - 06:47 pm:

So whats with the mystery? Are you going to give us the answer in code?

Michael

By Bruce D. (pm3-04-45.sle.du.teleport.com - 216.26.17.45) on Saturday, August 26, 2000 - 08:58 pm:

No, he isn't Michael because he doesn't know it himself. That's why he remains anonymous.
Bruce D.

By Michael D. Brown (204.182.234.218) on Monday, August 28, 2000 - 06:12 pm:

Thought I had a suspect, but I was wrong.
No mystery here. Michael D. Brown

By Howard (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 64.30.209.40) on Monday, August 28, 2000 - 08:08 pm:

Michael-My much maligned suspect Bruce Davis was a welder, pipe fitter,and a "good mechanic" and did odd jobs like painting and consruction work. Davis went to the same beach Cheri and her father Jospeh frequented in Newport,Ca.In the 1960s(during the time Bates was there)Riverside City College,at least sections of it,underwent construction.I have photos of this project and the yearbook displays photos also. One picture shows a welder and its entitled "The Welder".I'm the first to discover this project as it relates to a possible connection in the Bates case.A friend of Cheri Bates was contacted and she told us that some of the construction workers would try and flirt with Cheri and she would ignore them('I made her pay for the brush offs '?).A detective told me that 'Cheri had a temper and she could suddenly tell someone off if they said or did something she didn't like'.A report stated her attacker was 'super sensitive'.I later discovered that Anaheim based(30 mins from RCC) Near Cal Construction was the principle co. in charge of the RCC project and it was located just down the street from where Bruce Davis lived. They were seeking welders,pipe fitters,painters,etc. to work on RCC-it was a big project at the time.Also, as a point of interest,the Zodiac Paper Co. was in the same area!As an aside,Davis was Editor in Chief("DEAR EDITOR"?) of his year book(they,as well as Davis, used Royal typewriters-I checked with a former student that worked with Davis).Davis did work at one office that processed paper,did news stories,etc.,but was asked to leave "because of his use of drugs". Keep in mind ,the Timex that Bates ripped off her attacker had paint flecks on it.Kathleen said that her abducter wore a band to hold his glasses on. This could show he was into welding/painting,etc., as some have speculated .Also ,I found out just last year that Davis lived in Riverside for a time.This is one reason that early Zodiac research rejected Davis- they could'nt "put him in or near Riverside during the Bates 187'" one detective told me.The old CII report is dead wrong that Tom quotes from in his hachet job(love it though!)on my suspect Bruce Davis.The ignorance is excusable as one has to know the Family -thats why I don't get angry .Some had short hair some did not. How do I know|? Well, I have photos and eyewitness testimony of former Family members.Also, Bruce was the only member,including Manson, that could grow a beard,shave it have long hair then cut it,as he was next in command to M. In a letter M wrote me some years ago ,he said that it was he "and Bruce that started the born again("reborn in paradice" sic) movement"!As a matter of fact the picture in the "suspect" at Zodiac killer.com list Davis is seen with a crew cut in 1970!! And he wore one before, at times.There was a costume shop near where Davis hung out and bought military supplies for the Family. They told me they 'sold crew cut wigs for party military garb since 1968.'Tex Watson a friend(some friend!)of Davis'actually owned a wig shop and wigs were found at least one of the Families houses.One suspected Z victim had wig hairs on her person .Z said he wore a disguise. Now, we know that if Allen was Zodiac, and he certainly was "bald"; must have worn a wig- so could my suspect even if he did have long hair!! I've read makeup techniques of the 60s and anti- detection books, and they show all one has to do is put on a thin elastic head covering- put on a short style hair piece and you're 'different'. One must think more carefully-this case is tricky.One can cover a beard also-I know I checked with makeup artists and books from the 60s-no prob'!Allen PASSED 2 lie detector tests(Davis has always refused a LDT) and failed to match Z prints/handwriting(twice)and so if Davis was "cleared by CII"as a Z suspect why wasn't Allen?More later on this...oh yes!

By Bruce D. (pm3-03-20.sle.du.teleport.com - 216.26.16.212) on Monday, August 28, 2000 - 08:43 pm:

About the lie detector tests, Allen was called a sociopath by police. Sociopaths because most have little or no conscience can beat lie detetor tests. Except for the prints in the Stine murder(AND THAT CRIME SCENE WAS SO CONTAMINATED THAT THEY COULD HAVE CREATED A NEW HUMAN PRINT CALLED HEINZ 57 Varieties) I'm not aware of any more confirmed Z prints. I might have forgotten.
About the handwriting, Allen was ambidextrous, and that's a good reason for no match.
BRUCE D.

By Chrissy Shaw (dial-98.farmtel.net - 209.207.16.98) on Tuesday, September 05, 2000 - 12:53 am:

Dear Bruce:

For curiosity sake, why do you say the scene was contaminated? I have failed to get answers from SFPD regarding the prints, security of the crime scene as well as the time-line of arrivals of the various units involved. My I ask the creditability of your sources?

Also, there are reported prints taken from a letter that are now in the FBI's file according to the writings at Jake's sight, but I have yet to get confirmation that such prints exists and have no way of knowing if those prints were ever cross matched to the Stine CS sets.

By Howard (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 64.30.209.40) on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 08:57 pm:

Chrissy- I agree,where is proof that the crime scene was "contaminated"?I have the SFPD copy of the Stine cab prints found on the cab(10/11/12/69 ).The print men simply took all prints and filed and delineated where each print was found -just like they always did in other crime scenes!

By Elizabeth (Elizabeth) (spider-tp053.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.204.198) on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 01:38 pm:

Howard

I would like to speak with you if possible. How may I get in touch with you?

By Twagner129 (Twagner129) (spider-mtc-tg024.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.102.159) on Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 09:09 pm:

Howard, I have read your posts repeatedly and given you praise for your diligence and hard work, but really, does your Suspect fit EVERY odd-ball theory brought up here? I suppose if we decided that Z. smelled of seafood, one of your suspects would have been a lobster shucker on the warf, right?

By Howard (Howard) (1cust17.tnt10.sfo3.da.uu.net - 63.23.28.17) on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 01:46 am:

Twagner-If I think there is a fit then it goes in. I am extremely honest with my research and to myself. I don't see many areas that do fit in and so I pass more than I land! .If Davis was a welder(a survey of his parole hearings,etc. show this to be true)and I see a question/discussion thats relevant I post, and I'm as accurate as I can be ;this is no place for distortions,etc.I appreciate your remarks and if you wish to give me some examples I'd be most happy to answer them-credibility is important to me .I've been researching numerous subjects(even Growth Hormone which I have a best selling book on)for about 41 years. No, Davis just caught lobsters! Just kidding!

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-63.212.128.212.losangeles1.level3.net - 63.212.128.212) on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 11:46 pm:

My guy was a welder(learned from his father)and pipe fitter(belonged to the local pipefitters union),did general construction work,painter,road surveyor,odd jobs,coached Little League,mail room clerk,Editor in Chief of year book,mechanic,studied engineering (in prison),fair muscian.The only professions he was skilled in were welding and pipefitting.

By Bruce Monson (The_Adversary) (csd131.bvi3.cos.pcisys.net - 207.204.7.131) on Friday, January 12, 2001 - 09:59 am:

HOWARD:
"Zodiac Paper Company"

BRUCE:
I hadn't heard of this one. Can you offer any information on this company and the types of paper (stationery?) they produced? Also, what did their monogram look like?

HOWARD:
Allen PASSED 2 lie detector tests(Davis has always refused a LDT)

BRUCE:
Two? I thought he had passed one test and just prior to his death he had agreed to take another test.

HOWARD:
and failed to match Z prints/handwriting(twice)and so if Davis was "cleared by CII"as a Z suspect why wasn't Allen?

BRUCE:
Exactly!

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-209.244.73.228.losangeles1.level3.net - 209.244.73.228) on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 01:26 am:

Bruce-When I was first researching Davis I went to Anaheim as I learned Davis had lived there.In going through the phone books of that time period-1964/66 I noted The Zodiac Paper Co.and did some research . I was able to locate the former owner,etc.,but he had tossed all the old employment records and other papers of that period away several years prior to my contact.I have my old notes stashed away and I also need to look for PD reports,etc.I do remember that there was nothing of importance at the time, but the name -Zodiac and that it was near Davis' home.Maybe with all the info I have gathered to date ,new research may turn up something of importance.The Riverside 66'missive was written on teletype paper and Ron Hubbard used to communicate with his Scientology centers by teletype.My suspect was into Scientology at this time . When met by Manson in 67' M stated that Bruce Davis was into Scientology just as he was.Davis went to the centers and it was there that he could have come in contact with teletype paper. The 66'expression "The confession by ___________" sound Scientology like.The statement "I am not sick .I am insane but that will not stop the game", is Scientology. They used expressions like "game" and you can be insane but not sick-you were just expressing in a 'different way,'etc. Since to be one with Ron Hubbard and think like him was a goal; I always think of that RH on the desk,but it's just a thought.Also,in an phone interview with Ceclia Shepherd's sister ,Tom told me that the sister told him the day before her sister Ceclia died, Ceclia told her that there was a "death threat" and that it had something to do with "Scientology"!In an interview Allen claimed he had passed 2 lie detector tests and he thought that was good,but the authorities ,he recounted, say he was a "sociopath" so that's why he passed the tests!He was print checked twice and no match.This is not a refutation of Allen I am just answering your questions.This tough case is unsolved and anything and everything should be looked at within reason.

By Bruce Monson (The_Adversary) (mail.ci.colospgs.co.us - 204.131.210.1) on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 08:09 am:

Hi Howard!

Thanks for the Zodiac Paper Company info! That's an interesting lead to be sure.

HOWARD:
Also,in an phone interview with Ceclia Shepherd's sister ,Tom told me that the sister told him the day before her sister Ceclia died, Ceclia told her that there was a "death threat" and that it had something to do with "Scientology"!

BRUCE:
Funny, I don't recall Tom mentioning this important bit of information anywhere... How frustrating!

HOWARD:
In an interview Allen claimed he had passed 2 lie detector tests and he thought that was good,but the authorities ,he recounted, say he was a "sociopath" so that's why he passed the tests!

BRUCE:
I'm aware of the "sociopath" reference, but I thought that was in reference to passing one polygraph. That, in and of itself, is compelling, but if he passed two tests that is even more interesting.

Tom, somewhere in your hidden files, do you have information that confirms Allen taking and passing two polygraph exams?

HOWARD:
He was print checked twice and no match.This is not a refutation of Allen I am just answering your questions.

BRUCE:
That's fine. But we have more than just the Stine latents (a whole different discussion, I know...), and those prints DO belong to someone--who?; or better, how many different people?

HOWARD:
This tough case is unsolved and anything and everything should be looked at within reason.

BRUCE:
I couldn't agree more!

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (aca7d811.ipt.aol.com - 172.167.216.17) on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 12:58 pm:

Bruce, just because YOU don't have access to information doesn't mean it's "hidden."
I couldn't post everything I have even if I wanted to.
Allen took one polygraph test while a patient at Atascadero. He apparently passed, although the results were later determined to be inconclusive.

By Bruce Monson (The_Adversary) (mail.ci.colospgs.co.us - 204.131.210.1) on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 10:34 pm:

VOIGT:
Bruce, just because YOU don't have access to information doesn't mean it's "hidden."

BRUCE:
Well, if I don't have access to it (upon request) then is it not, by definition, hidden from me? How many times have I (and others) requested material from you but you don't put-up? Need I start citing examples again?

VOIGT:
I couldn't post everything I have even if I wanted to.

BRUCE:
Just for S@its, giggles and grins, how much memory space would it take for you to "post everything [you] have"? Along with my previous offers of assistance to help you out, maybe I could offer you some additional memory space on an alternate website? I'm sure others, such as Jake, Doug, and Howard would also be willing to offer space as well.

Or are you saying that you have been forwarded confidential police files on an active case by police detectives?

VOIGT:
Allen took one polygraph test while a patient at Atascadero. He apparently passed, although the results were later determined to be inconclusive.

BRUCE:
Just the facts, please! So Allen took a polygraph at Atascadero only? Are you sure that was the only test he was given?

Also, Allen didn't just "apparently pass" this polygraph test, he did pass! This "later determined to be inconclusive" posture is a bunch of after-the-fact conjecture; otherwise there wouldn't have been any reason for original investigators to make assertions about Allen being a "sociopath" in order to explain why he passed the polygraph exam.

By Bruce Monson (The_Adversary) (mail.ci.colospgs.co.us - 204.131.210.1) on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 10:44 pm:

Howard wrote:
Also,in an phone interview with Ceclia Shepherd's sister ,Tom told me that the sister told him the day before her sister Ceclia died, Ceclia told her that there was a "death threat" and that it had something to do with "Scientology"!

BRUCE:
Tom, can you verify that Cecilia's sister did in fact make such a statement, as Howard quotes above, to you? Did Cecilia receive a "death threat" the day before she died? Was there mention of "Scientology"?

Regards,

Bruce M.

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (aca3146f.ipt.aol.com - 172.163.20.111) on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 10:53 pm:

Carolyn Shepard's memory was rather vague, but she told me that she thought Cecelia had received a threat in Riverside, and that it might have involved scientology in some way.

Allen took one polygraph test.

I'm not interested in posting all of the information I have. Why would I be?
The idea of scanning hundreds of pages of reports is absurd, especially considering many contain names, addresses and phone numbers of innocent people once suspected by law enforcement.
You haven't thought this through.

By Bruce Monson (The_Adversary) (mail.ci.colospgs.co.us - 204.131.210.1) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 12:01 am:

VOIGT:
I'm not interested in posting all of the information I have. Why would I be?

BRUCE:
A better question is why wouldn't you be? (unless, of course, your goals about resolving this case are different than they are for the rest of us). It's funny how you chastize police departments for "witholding information" (for what ever self-serving reasons) but then you follow the same pattern. In addition, we wouldn't have to pound you for information you selectively leave out; or have to read between the lines of your creative interpretations. How about that?

I also fail to understand why you complain about all the "work" that has to be done in order for certain things to happen, but when help is offered to you you just snub your nose at it.

VOIGT:
You haven't thought this through.

BRUCE:
Considering the source, that is an amusing statement! Of course I have "thought this through"! I deal with confidential documents on a daily basis in my profession (as do many other people on this list, I'm sure). What makes you think your white-out works any better than mine does?

You remind me of the playground bully who takes his ball and goes home if all the other kids won't play by his dictatorial rules all the time.

Here's a question I have asked you many times already, but you never seem to want to answer: What is the goal here?

Regards,

Bruce M.

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (ac9ae358.ipt.aol.com - 172.154.227.88) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 12:36 am:

Bruce, I don't "withhold information."
When I uncover an important detail, the proper people find out immediately. A good example, but not the only one, would be the fact that I informed Howard Davis of Carolyn Shepard's comments regarding scientology. Howard is the expert in that field, so I let him know.
I also recently referred somebody to Douglas Oswell, and sent tapes of my Cheney interview to Ken Narlow (among others).
I think you should take back your statement.

Meanwhile, you want me to:
1) Xerox all of my hundreds of documents
2) White out all of the private info
3) Scan all of the hundreds of documents
4) Create hundreds of new HTML pages
5) Upload all of the hundreds of documents
6) Upload all of the hundreds of HTML pages

Boy, that sure sounds reasonable. I'll get right on it...as soon as there are 48 hours in a day.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (164.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.16.164) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 07:39 am:

I agree that it's a lot of work, but it could be done just a little bit at a time with the more relevant documentation. A web posting of such data would indeed be too large for one individual to undertake, but you could take the collected images, burn them onto a CD-ROM and sell the CD at a nominal price, turning enough profit to cover your expenses.

By Esau (Esau) (cc129455-a.rcrdva1.ca.home.com - 24.176.178.187) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 08:14 am:

Tom, if you need help transcribing documents you can mail some to me and I'll transcribe, then email them back to you.

By Bruce Monson (The_Adversary) (csd133.bvi3.cos.pcisys.net - 207.204.7.133) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 01:33 pm:

Tom, I will retract nothing! I can cite example after example to demonstrate the factuality of my points. If you like I can "make a little list..."

But, hey, this bickering gets us nowhere! We should all be working together, not against one another. Not everyone has the means or even skills to be investigative reporters who run websites, track people down and do interviews, but that doesn't mean people aren't willing to help in whatever capacity they can. You can make this as easy or as hard as you like, Tom, but I think you would be amazed at how helpful people can be if you just give them a chance! And I don't mean just those people who have written a book on their "Z" theory, but everyone in general. Everyone sees things a little different, and every time new (or even old) information does come forth, there are compelling new observations being made by casual observers that have gone unnoticed. So what makes you think the same would not hold true for the reams of material you apparently have in your possession "but don't see why" you should present in whole (yes, with names whited-out) for all to see and evaluate for themselves?

But you just don't seem to get it! You complain about how much "work" all of this would be for you (and, of course, you attach your customary condescending baggage along with it: "Boy, that sure sounds reasonable. I'll get right on it...as soon as there are 48 hours in a day."), but when myself (and others) offer to help out (FOR FREE!!), you just don't seem to be interested.

You aren't the only one with a scanner, my friend! You aren't the only one with a web page and willing to post this material ON YOUR BEHALF! You aren't the only one with a CD-writer. You aren't the only one with a cassette player, and willing to put it to use in helping you TRANSCRIBE interviews, etc., etc.

But more, Tom, the real problem is that you get to play judge and jury (on what tidbits of information you "give out" to select people) based on how you read the material! You have shown time and again that unbiased interpretation of data is not your strong suit; as such, it's really not your place to "do the thinking" for all of us as to what information is and is not important. There are plenty of intelligent people here with an eye to critical evaluation of evidence. But when we are at your mercy for getting these tiny scraps of information at your disgression, then that's a problem that holds-up progress. Worse, it's a breeding ground for far-fetched speculation and urban legends.

That you don't seem interested in FREE HELP is, to me at least, quite revealing about your self-serving motives and contradictory views.

Regards,

Bruce Monson

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (ac877f40.ipt.aol.com - 172.135.127.64) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 02:02 pm:

As I stated earlier, I'm not interested in posting everything I have...regardless of how many volunteers you can drum up.

Why in the world would I change what I've been doing? It works quite well.

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (ac877f40.ipt.aol.com - 172.135.127.64) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 02:04 pm:

By the way, this thread is "Arc Welder"...

By Bruce Monson (The_Adversary) (csd133.bvi3.cos.pcisys.net - 207.204.7.133) on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 06:06 pm:

I rest my case...

By Realtor (Realtor) (208.128.16.97) on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:31 am:

Bruce:

You were snotty to me and snotty to Tom. It's HIS ball and bat. If you don't like the game, go home. I'll agree that Tom is a bit snide from time to time but I think that's just his nature. We each have much more personality than can be perceived on this board. So lighten up or click on the X.

By Alanc (Alanc) (spider-th074.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.213.79) on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 11:59 am:

Free web space is available EVERYWHERE, Bruce. Set up a page. This case is a magnet for weirdos. If you build it, they will come.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (24.philadelphia08rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.30.24) on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 03:11 pm:

Alanc, you have said it. This case is a magnet for weirdos, and unfortunately they're getting in the way. In five years I've been approached by hundreds of people offering me opinions and "information" on the case, and out of those hundreds only one has proved useful. I can't keep up with the e-mails from well-intentioned souls offering me convoluted "solutions" to the Zodiac ciphers. And there are certain very nice people who have direct connections to the case whose input is absolutely worthless so far as it might lead to any kind of resolution.

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-63.210.126.244.losangeles1.level3.net - 63.210.126.244) on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 02:12 am:

Also ,as I see the Zodiac paper source in 69-74'(maybe 78'!)it could have come from stationary/paper/printer shop's throw aways.Sandra Good a Family member would go to alleys and find where paper and stationary(she found one stack in the trash with a convents preprinted address on it -it was located in S.F. and she tried to get a boy to mail letters she had enclosed in the envelopes from S.F. as she wanted a"S.F.postmark on them!)were tossed and use them for letters,etc. She(and Lynette Fromme-the same who tried to kill prez Ford) even found law enforcement paper/envelopes. This could explain that so called custom 'non uniform' Zodiac stationary. Pretty hard to trace paper that has been tossed. I checked with printers and they said one would be surprised to know the kind of paper/s that makes it to the large square file in the alley!That's my guess.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (110.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.17.110) on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 10:05 am:

Some time ago I worked for a medium-sized print shop and the amount of waste paper discarded in the dumpster was nothing short of incredible. I used to take home big boxes of the stuff for my kids to play with.

By Howard (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 64.30.209.40) on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 04:43 pm:

Doug:Hmmm- very interesting. Where were you 11/29/66 and 8/7/69? Hmmmmm! Just kidding;but that is confirmation that paper, even quality paper,is tossed on a regular basis. They did that at the Zodiac Paper Co.; and many other shops did and do the same thing. Zodiac could have easily obtained any kind and size he wanted .I urge Z people to look up references to discussion on Zs choice of paper in GSs' book-and yours-if it's in there. Someone like your Ted K. would certainly have the foresight to obtain untraceable paper in this manner!I think the 'uneven' sizes of the Zodiac missive paper could be a clue that it may have been a dip for script!GS says that somewhere a printer may remember cutting "custom" sizes for a customer.Not if Z skinny dipped!

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (171.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.17.171) on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 08:14 pm:

Howard--Ted K. was a regular scavenger when it came to fishing around in the trash for things. Nowadays I believe printing firms recycle the paper (if there's a demand for it) but back "in the day," it was usual simply to throw it out.

I imagine any such paper would have a good chance of containing an odd fingerprint or two, depending on how it was handled.

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-63.209.89.232.losangeles1.level3.net - 63.209.89.232) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 01:06 am:

Doug-Another good point.The PD found ,as you say ,a print or 2 on at least 1 letter/envelope-this could have been from one of the printers or helpers that did the toss. Just musing I know!Yes,as is now known,ol'Ted K was very much into digging for "gold" in them there trash receptacles!

By Sandy (Sandy) (c531918-a.ptbrg1.sfba.home.com - 24.176.152.45) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 08:56 am:

Don't forget one of my suspects is a printer! And he is very much alive. I am sorry I can't post his full name, I hope you understand why. This is the same suspect I saw with Kane. He was never in the military, nor was he ever arrested as far as I can tell. This one is the one I have said looks a lot looks a lot like Paul Stine.

By Realtor (Realtor) (208.128.16.97) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 10:19 am:

Sandy:

Just to clear me up a bit, how many suspects do you have? Do you think they acted together, as a group, or individually?

Realtor

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) (ac94b805.ipt.aol.com - 172.148.184.5) on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 11:57 am:

Sandy, if you decide to answer Realtor's question please start a new thread under "Other Suspects."

By Howard (Howard) (dialup-63.210.127.19.losangeles1.level3.net - 63.210.127.19) on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 02:53 am:

Bruce-I have found one of the letters I received from the Douglas Paper Co.Inc.,1617 Orangethrope Way, Anaheim, CA 92801.
April 13, 1989
"Dear Dr. Davis:

The owners of Zodiac Paper Company during the period in question-1962-1969-have passed away[of course!]...Sorry that I could not have been more help to you and good luck with your project."

This will show that the former name was Zodiac up until the name was changed to Douglas.They advertised in the Anaheim paper as the Zodiac Paper Co.Bruce Davis lived in Anaheim (1964-66) and lived in Riverside for a time and then, as Sanders says :"Davis dropped out in Nov. of 66' and became a transient undergrounder".NEAR CAL Corp. did the main construction work on RCC while Cheri Bates was there. Bates' girlfriend said the "construction workers would flirt with Cheri",but that she would 'ignore them'.I was the first to find that there was a massive reconstruction project going on at RCC at that period and that Davis was a pipe fitter/welder/painter and lived in the same city as the main contractor,NEAR CAl!The RCC yearbook shows a photo of a worker at the college and it is titled "The Welder".As an aside, the Anaheim Bulletin did not do a story on the Bates 87-at least I could find no references. This is strange, as even the S.F.Chronicle and many other papers did front pagers'on the crime.I could have missed it though. They had reporters in different cities or floaters to find stories and report to the Bulletin so maybe Davis was covering Riverside-just kidding!