Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Other Possible Zodiac Victims: Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards -- June 4, 1963

Here's a link to my latest update:

Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards

A couple of questions/observations spring to mind:-
1.Type of knot
I think it was Graysmith (yes,I know)reported that the killer used a particular type of knot when binding the victims. Do we know if a similar type knot was used when binding the Berryessa victims?

2. Hidden Shack
This probably goes to whether the Killer was familiar with the area or not.The impression from the pictures is that the Shack is somewhat hidden from view.Yet the killer went to the trouble of dragging the bodies a considerable distance to it.Is this something he might have passed en route or is it more likely he would have known of its existence beforehand?

3. Suspects fleeing
I am wondering how the victims got the opportunity to run or under what circumstances they were able to do so.
Perhaps it was the killers intention to walk them to the Shack! Its hard to see them getting the opportunity to make a run for it, if their hands are tied while lying on the blanket.
Just thoughts.

Thanks Tom,

The aerial shot looks almost like a mountain with snow where the beach line is. I think you can see the shadow of the plane on the highway to the left of the creek.

Was ditch day on June 3rd and they were found on June 4th? Sometimes coroners give the date they find victims as the date of death.

Lapumo,
The trees look pretty thick he may have been familiar with the area. It also seems he was stalking his victims. He was prepared with the ropes. Maybe he knew it was ditch day.

I wonder why the shack didn't burn? I would think that it wouldn't take much to burn it, unless there wasn't enough kindling or the wood was damp?

Thanks for the info. How do we know that Edwards was the one who tied Domingos?

Bookworm, the page clearly states "Killed: June 4, 1963 (Tuesday)" and "the bodies weren't found until the following evening." I don't think the information can be any more clear than that.

Regarding the shack not burning, it's probably because of wind, moisture, or any number of other reasons.

Lapumo, considering the author you mentioned managed to publish an incorrect date for the murders...well, I'll leave it at that. What a hack.

Muskogee, the killer would have needed to put his gun down in order to tie Domingos. It's very unlikely he did so. There are some other reasons, too...but I'll defer to those more familiar than I.

Thanks for offering this material, Tom, and an even greater amount of debt and gratitude is owed to Bill Baker: Thanks, Bill.

Let me start by saying this: Entire volumes of new information will be written about the Zodiac if it can be determined that Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards were his first (?) victims. Although that may sound patently obvious, take a moment to really think about that, if you will. It means, first and foremost, that the man who would later become known as the Zodiac would have been killing people at least 5 years before the first known Zodiac crime but without the Zodiac persona.

Obvious hypothetical questions for consideration spring to mind: No wonder he seemed so brazen in his tactics as the Zodiac, he'd killed before, became comfortable with it, and went on a campaign to bring more recognition to himself. This would further support the notion that the Zodiac was an older guy; 35 - 45, I believe it says on the composite. Zodiac may well have been referring to the Santa Barbara crime when he wrote; "They're only finding the easy ones down there." What would this do to the suspect list? Would we be more inclined to eliminate Ted Kaczynski and Bruce Davis from the list of suspects? Would it be fair to say that the man who would become the Zodiac was a serial killer before [and after] he was "The Zodiac"? Who else had he killed prior to Betty Lou Jensen and David Arthur Faraday? Cheri Jo Bates? And on, and on, and on...

If you look at these crimes objectively, in my opinion it is a lot easier to link the Zodiac to this crime than it is to the Cheri Jo Bates murder, even though the Zodiac can apparently be linked to her murder via Sherwood Morrill. I mean, what about the murder of Cheri Jo Bates even remotely resembles any of Zodiac's known crimes? Virtually nothing. But compare the Santa Barbara murders to Lake Berryessa and see what you get; the similarities are absolutely uncanny. Either Zodiac read about this crime and chose to emulate it, or he committed it. How many other explanations can there be?

Perhaps I'm biased having listened to Bill Baker and Ken Narlow discuss these similarities in some detail, but I believe that the man who committed the murders in Santa Barbara and also the Zodiac murders are one and the same. I know the similarities have been noted before, but never with as much detail as are now available thanks to Bill, Tom, and an overdue meeting between Bill Baker and Ken Narlow. Now is the time for a reworking of the Zodiac's mythos by dealing strictly with facts instead of fantasy. I'll start by saying this: When two guys with roughly 50 - 60 years of combined law enforcement beneath their belts seem to be in agreement that the perpetrator of Santa Barbara and Lake Berryessa are the same individual [or at least that the likelihood of 2 different individuals in the same state committing 2 different crimes with exactly the same MO are so astronomical as to be absurd], it seems more than logical to use that as a point of factual reference until it can be proven otherwise. I mean, that is the scientific method...

Thoughts?

Scott, if this case could definitely be linked to Zodiac, I'd say I'd be less inclined to favor Kaczynski as a suspect. One caveat, however: almost all of these crimes are occurring in an area where there's a branch of the University of California nearby, and you can't exclude the possibility that Kaczynski might have been attending a mathematical symposium or some similar event at one of those colleges. Kaczynski traveled long distances quite readily, and had very little trouble sustaining himself on meagre resources when doing so. In fact, I recall reading that the elder Kaczynskis were in the habit of travelling around the country and staying at various hostels on college campuses; a penchant no doubt shared by their academic son.

Doug: Thanks for contributing, because I know that you, among a select few of individuals, not just on this board but in the world in general, really do care about the outcome of this case. It's much to your credit as an individual that you'd be willing to separate yourself from something that you honestly believe given specific facts contrary to your theory. I can certainly appreciate that because I know that your integrity and motives are sound. But, to be honest with you, I can't say with any certainty what it would prove if Santa Barbara were directly connected to the Zodiac. Ted Kaczynski could become more viable or less in terms of his suspect status. I'm simply trying to illustrate that a completely new can of worms would be opened if the Zodiac could also be linked to Santa Barbara; it would provide us with a completely new and unique slant on the information that we already have.

Scott,
My feeling is that Cheri's murder is even more closely related to the Santa Barbara murders than Cecelia's (Lake Berryessa).

Bookworm: You might be right is the sense that, if the same perpetrator committed all 3 crimes -- Lake Berryessa, Santa Barbara, and Riverside -- SB and Riverside were much more disorganized than Lake Berryessa was. Lake Berryessa, in my opinion, was a reenactment of the much less fluid Santa Barbara crime. Also, the 'persona' of Zodiac didn't yet exist when the perpetrator committed the SB and Riverside crimes. [Again, assuming for a moment that the same individual was responsible for all three crimes.] Otherwise, Santa Barbara and Lake Berryessa are virtually twins. Did you have something else in mind?

There's little light I can shed on the subject that hasn't already been provided, but I think I've remarked before that in my experience, both direct and through following other cases, every time a new killing is added to a series committed by the same person, new information is gained. While it's always tragic that it costs additional lives in order to get a better handle on who's responsible, often that is how these serial killers are eventually caught.

In a most basic sense, what is known about Z is predicated, in addition of course to his writings, on LHR, BRS, LB and PH. Four crime scenes, five deaths. If CJB is added, or KJ, the picture of the killer becomes clearer, and perhaps the cumulation of evidence brings the investigators nearer to establishing his identity. This is not always a given, as evidenced by the GRK series, although there is a greater likelihood of detection as new crimes are added to the mix.

The SB killings have the potential of adding still greater insight as to what is known about Z. A different time, different locale, different conditions, all lending an expanded vision of who this man is. There is no certainty that Z did this in 1963, nor can we proceed on any course with confidence that it was him, but it does provide an opportunity that could hold considerable promise. Much has been learned about Z from the Stine killing. Yet, without Z proving his complicity in the manner he did, that case would not have been linked to Z in a million years. Ditto, CJB.

In my estimation, there will always be those who doubt Z's complicity in the 1963 killings, and it will probably remain a moot question. But this should not be a deterrent to exploring whatever new ground that is offered by the possibility of it being a new chapter, a virgin territory that could yield new knowledge. There's little to be lost in such an exercise, and much that could be gained.

This is a brilliant thread. Santa Barbara would almost certainly rule out the Penn theory, as well as the "Rope" scenario involving him and his suspect. It would probably rule out Davis as well.

It's exclusionary, and therefore worth exploring. Anything that cuts the list of potential suspects is helpful, here.

Alan, you can also rule out Arthur Leigh Allen as being the killer, at least according to a certain author's research prowess.

In the blue Zodiac book, the author incorrectly published the date of the Domingos-Edwards murders as "Monday, June 3" and claimed Allen had just left Pomona that day and was essentially at the crime scene, driving north on highway 101 heading back to Vallejo.

Of course, even if the author really knew where Allen was that day, which he doesn't, the victims were killed on Tuesday, June 4, so the author indirectly sabotaged his own case against Allen via inept research methods.

Just for the record, Allen was employed at Santa Rosa Elementary in Atascadero, Calif. in June 1963 and nobody knows for sure where he was the day of the murders.

There are many other errors in that author's chapter on the 1963 killings and I'm sure those familiar with his book will have questions as to why some of his published info wasn't included in my update. In short, the reason is because it's bunk.

Scott, I agree, and I don't see why we shouldn't speculate, so long as we keep the speculation in a separate compartment. For my part, I believe very strongly that there could be a possible link between Zodiac and the Riverside case of the kissing kidnapper, the assault on the Vallejo housewife, and the February, 1964, attack on the San Diego couple, which I believe is outlined here on Tom's site. I guess I feel the same way about all these cases as a prosecutor who can't use a damning piece of evidence because of legal niceties.

Doug, I couldn't disagree more that the individual responsible for the flawlessly-executed Lake Herman Road murders is the same individual who, just a few days later, bumbled his way into the newspaper as seen in the "Vallejo housewife" link above.

However, I see many links between Zodiac and the killer of Domingos and Edwards.

If the two were linked, Tom, it was a case of the same person with two different ends in mind. If he hadn't sent us a piece of bloody shirt, would anyone have dreamed that the murderer of Paul Stine was the same person who had pulled off three assaults on young couples in lovers' lanes?

Doug, I would think this individual would demonstrate a similar level of competency regardless of whatever ends he had in mind.

That would all depend on how desperate he got! Shooting couples in lonely places in the wee hours of the morning isn't the same as breaking into an occupied house, or hiding in the back seat of someone's car. I might compare Kaczynski's breaking and entering, sabotaging and arson habits, that were very off-the-cuff, haphazard, and not too well thought out with his bombing activities, which were meticulously planned and calculated to minimize his risks to a very low order of probability. Then, too, demanding publication of his Manifesto was the stupidest thing he ever did, and you have to wonder what he was thinking at the time.

If this is a Zodiac crime, it may help with understanding why he chose couples, and the behaviour of suspects.

Zodiac's official assault on couples in isolated areas is about 9 months long. From SB to LB, this would be 6 years and 4 months. Thats a long time to have such hatred towards young couples in romantic situations. At the very least it would be 6 years and 4 months, but more likely the hatred would have started before and ended after this period, or maybe it never ended. This individual would probably have unintentionally leaked this out to those around him.

If SB is a Z crime, I think it points even more to his preference simply being isolated areas and not couples. If you go to a isolated area, you probably won't find one person sitting there for hours. And if there is a group, this would discourage an attack because of the number of witnesses and the likelihood of someone escaping. This leaves a small number, preferably two people to attack. You imobilize one, and then the odds are even. As far as age goes, you wouldn't find young children there unless there were adults around to drive them, hence a group. And you probably wouldn't find middle-aged to senior citizens "parking". This leaves teens-to young adults as the two people there.

If this is the case, Zodiac had little to nothing against couples, and therefore would not have demonstrated any hostilities to couples/relationships in this 6-year, 4-month and counting period.

I thank everyone involved for bringing this case to light. I've gone from, "Hmm, that's pretty interesting," when I first read about the case way back when to "Dang, I'll be very suprised if this is NOT a young Zodiac at work."

I think that I should mention, for the sake of giving credit where credit is due, that a long time ago Tom had expressed to me an interest in giving the Domingos/Edwards case some coverage on his site, but I had discouraged it for a number of reasons.

My primary concern in having the crime given a showcasing, which would elicit greater public interest (and input), would have involved my cooperation in providing whatever data I could in order to make it not only informative and accurate, but as comprehensive as possible. I am retired from the department, and am in no way sanctioned or authorized to publicly divulge information on an open homicide case. I have always endeavored to provide in my posts only that information which I believed to have already been made public at some point in the investigation since 1963. Even so, I was always painfully aware that my altruistic aims, being to try and develop links between Z and our case, and in so doing, to ultimately solve our case and perhaps assist in identifying Z, could be viewed by others as some violation of trust. And I was right.

Despite my best intentions, there were still elements from my professional past who, for whatever reasons, used my participation on this Board as grounds for maligning my integrity and trustworthiness. Within the past 2 years I failed to secure two separate jobs, both within law enforcement (to supplement my pension), directly attributable to my participation on this Board. I have suffered greatly, both financially and emotionally, in having my integrity brought into question and my reputation irredeemably damaged. After so many years of dedicated service, the pain has cast a pall over my retirement years. That hurts more than I can ever say.

There exists a number of investigative keys that have never, to my knowledge, been made public, and I will protect those keys at all cost, recognizing after my own involvement in many murder investigations the value that they represent to a successful apprehension, and prosecution. However . . . this case has remained unsolved for just over 40 years, with no signs of breaking anytime in this millennium. I am no longer "in the loop," as it were, so if there is a new push on (since my retirement in 1991) by the department to solve it, it would be news to me. I have said to others, including those who would have me drawn and quartered for my post-retirement persistence on the case, that sometimes in order to get information, you have to give information. Without stepping over the line into professional malfeasance, I have endeavored to do just that, in order to breathe some life into an otherwise moribund murder investigation, through the use of a public forum.

Since my reputation has already been irreparably sullied, and the Domingos/Edwards case remains open (along with the Z cases), I felt that there existed no legitimate reason, professional or moral, why the case should not be promoted and displayed for whatever benefit it might serve. Tom will attest to the times that I agonized, yes agonized, over the decision to lend my support to his project. Even the decision to write this message tonight was not made without considerable introspection and circumspection, and reticence.

So, regardless of whether you, individually, summarily dismiss the 1963 case as the work of Z, or if you view the information with an open mind, please understand that I believe in it, and Tom believes in it (thank you), along with others here. If for no other reason, it's now out there for all to see and is deserving of your consideration.

Bill, I for one have never doubted your integrity in any of your posts on any subject. When you first started posting I told my wife one poster claimed to be a retired detective, and if he was fibbing he was a great liar as he certainly sounded like the genuine item. Your professionalism shines through on every post and I think most of us are darned grateful to have someone with your experience here.
Sorry to hear about your job difficulties. I know parables don't pay the rent, but each time I failed to get a job I wanted I consoled myself with this fact: J.S. Bach composed his six Brandenburg concertos in an attempt to win favor with the Margrave of Brandenburg and get hired to conduct his personal orchestra. He did not get the job. Nobody remembers the Margraves name, but someone is listening to that music somewhere right now.
Good luck.

Scott,
Davis, for the first time, came to CA in 1963-the year of the murders (and came back in 1964 the same year as the seaside S.D. '87)-as he and a friend picked fruit and did odd jobs(Davis did some welding-he was certified- and painting-a worker at the personnel office at VAF base told me welders,etc.,were hired from time to time to work on the base which was fairly close to the attack site,which,I believe,is about an hour away FYI)up and down the west coast.
They went as far as Seattle,WA.This is where Davis' friend saw Bruce 'buy a pair of military shoes or boots at a PX.'I think military shoe/boot prints were found at S.B.If I am in error,then I will stand corrected by det.Bill.
A lot of pickers are hired in the S.B.area.
The seaside couple murder or honeymoon murders(see past posts)in SD, took place near the ocean 2/5/64 and a .22 rifle(model 550-1-I have the PD report)was used.There was no apparent motive for the murders.It is my understanding that a .22 rifle may have been used in the S.B.crime(?)There are some similarities between S.B. and S.D.I listed some of these in posts- one being both took a shot in the rear of the head- after taking several slugs to their persons.The male,at S.D.,was shot behind the left ear and the female in the middle of the head ,both at close range.I am not referring to exact placements as compared to each set of crimes.
Peterson believed there was a connection to both '87s,and that they were a young Z deal.FYI
Davis visited 704 Bath St.in S.B. as early as 1967.Donna Lass worked at the local hospital very near Bath St.as per her older sister.She left there to take the Letterman hospital nurses position.She left that job June 1970 to go to Lake Tahoe and vanished 9/6/70.FYI
Davis/Manson knew several people who lived in and near S.B.I have a copy of CMs drivers license and the address is 704 Bath St.in '67.Davis last visited there in 1970.
No one knows WHEN Davis began killing.He is the chief suspect in single and couple murder(knife/gun/strangulation).
The astute Bugliosi firmly believes Davis killed several people.
NO Z suspect can be placed at that seaside area in S.B. 6/4/63 or S.D.2/5/64.
Since ALA worked at a school then his work record should be checked to see if he was absent on the fourth.Maybe it has.Results are?Tom is our expert here.
Doug is correct ,as no one knows where TK was at that period of time.This doesn't rule him out though.No one knows when or where he started killing people.
The same can be firmly said about ALA.No one is in or out,unless,as you say,'fantasy' is involved!
As a point of interest, I have contacted a man, being one of at least two people, that was invited by Domingos/Edwards to come with them to that beach area on that fateful day!He said that a lot of the kids then went to this same area.It was known to area students as a place to visit-for whatever reason!
Another S.B.couple beach murder that hasn't been discussed in detail,in relation to a possible Z attack, is the Sandra Garcia and John Hood '87 case near Cemetery beach(!)2/21/70.
As an FYI, note there was a HMA and the other victim was a WFA at S.B. and here,at Cemetery Beach, it is the opposite.

I don't think we should get so wrapped up in the similarities between S.B. and L.B.,because we have Z at LHR and BRS!;but, we also have a Z attacking a lone male cabbie right in his automobile at a public place IN a city!
Boxed Zodiac-I don't think so -I don't like the product or label!He said he would "CHANGE the WAY" in which he would kill-sorry ,I not only believe he did, but was capable of it too.
Speculation?Yes,but now isn't there a lot of this in this unsolved baffling case?
Do I reject the connection between S.B. and L.B.NO!I have always believed,as did Peterson,they were connected.
I'll keep Bates as a Z too.And not just based on Morrills opinion either.
Det.Bill did the right thing and he shouldn't feel badly about it-his revelations were an act based on principle.
Sorry we didn't get to visit in S.F.

Bill, anybody who would impugn your integrity based on your participation in this project is a couple of grams short of a full count. You've got more integrity than the average NYPD *precinct*.

Bill, I'm so sorry for what you've been through over this.

Although my opinion can't make any difference, you strike me as one of the most honorable, principled and trustworthy people I've ever met. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who questions your integrity is--I'm trying to put this politely--extremely misguided and foolish.

From just what I've seen here, the Domingos/Edwards murder certainly does look to be the early work of Zodiac; and the fact that you say you believe in it carries incalculable weight with me. So I'm all the more grateful to you for choosing to bring this unsolved case to public attention here. Thank you.

Bill, I agree with all the comments posted here. I hold high esteem for your profession, and you are one of the best within that profession, IMO. It says a lot about your character that you chose to do the right thing, despite the negative consequences you have personally suffered. You are going above and beyond to help find justice for Ms. Edwards and Mr. Domingos, and I'm sure they would be greatful. I think the streets would be a lot safer if there were more people who were as passionate about helping others as you are. I hope you are rewarded for your selflessness.

Bill,
After 40 years, and if the investigation isn't actually active, why not try other options. I'm sure back then rewards were posted and help from the public was sought to help solve this crime.

Scott,
I was thinking about how Linda was laid on top of Robert like she was on a bed. In one of the pictures on Eduard's website of the crimescene, you can see Boxspring Mountain in the background, if I've gotten the name of the mountain right.

Then read the scene in Hugo's "The Hunchback of Notre Dame," Book 2, Chapters 3 and 4, where Gringoire, the poet (compare with desk-top poem), lies in the gutter after trying to rescue the gypsy girl from an assault by Quasimodo. In chapter 5, children throw a mattress on top of him and try to lite it; he takes off running.

The gypsy is saved by Phoebus, one of the squadron. According to the first newspaper article listed on Eduard's website, it states that the groundskeeper's name who found her was Cleophus. both names have similar letters in common except for the letters CLB, the first and last are Cheri's initials.

The title of Chapter 4 is "The Drawbacks of Following a Pretty Woman Through the Streets at Night" and Chapter 5 "The Drawbacks (continued)." Some translations may not be worded the same. The book copyright is dated 1978 translated by John Sturrock.

Bookworm, I don't recall reading or hearing of any rewards being offered for information, and help from the public is something that did not have to be expressly stated. In that day, details of a crime, even one as heinous as this, did not receive the wide-spread exposure that we enjoy today. The juxtaposition of the 1963 case and Z's crimes was not a factor back then, and even the 1972 press release announcing the possibility of such a connection had only limited interest and exposure. It goes without saying that one day's viewing of this site, globally, would represent greater exposure than the case received over the past 40 years put together.

When you suggest my trying other options, please remember that I am retired, with no official standing in the investigation; my detractors would term me a loose cannon. From that position, just what options would you suggest I try? It is not up to me to explore new avenues of pursuit to kick-start an inactive investigation; that is within the domain and authority of the SB Sheriff's Department, of which I am no longer a part, in any capacity. My involvement today in this matter is no more official than your own. I think I have gone an extra step as it is, pending any new ideas that you or anyone else can suggest.

Hi Bill,
Actually, by options I meant participating in a message board like Tom's here. "Loose Cannon" isn't fair, because there are detectives who don't give up on cases because they are dedicated and persistent, like you.

OK, if this killing was the work of Zodiac, then why did he not follow up in his known manner of writing a letter about it? Driving up and down the coast just randomly shooting strangers without bragging rights? There's no fun in that!

"...why did [Zodiac] not follow up in his known manner of writing a letter about it?"

Why didn't he write a letter about Lake Herman Road?

He did, but it took him a while.

Several possible reasons could explain the lack of a letter. If this was his first crime he may simply not have evolved to the stage of trying to terrify the community. Or, since it almost went wrong (the evident attempted escape) he may have felt his confidence shaken. That would also explain the efforts to burn the bodies.
My own suspicion is perhaps the most interesting. IF the killer KNEW the victims, if this was his first and personal rather than random, no way he would draw attention to it, maybe ever.

I just added a pic from 1972 of our own Bill Baker on TV announcing the possible Zodiac connection to the Domingos/Edwards murders.

Here's a link.

Bill looked a bit like Lee Majors back then...

Lee Majors? Hmm. Maybe.

However, I think Bill looks more like George Peppard nowadays.

George Peppard's dead and molding, is he not?

Dead, yes. Moldy, who knows. And he still probably looks better today than Lee Majors does.

My phrasing was subtly vague, though, as you so cleverly point out. In a more precise mode, I'd write: "nowadays, Bill looks more like George Peppard did in his gloriously silver-haired, blue-eyed prime."

I think that statement makes your comparison to a living individual quite clear. Plus, it's more gushy. Of course, that's a matter of taste.

Bill was quite the dashing young man. Of course, I'd expect nothing less, as he is quite the handsome mature man now!