Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Other Suspects: Paul Avery
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust236.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 12:35 pm:|
Paul Avery in the 90's developed a new lead in the Zodiac case. He choose to keep the
information to himself. Just prior to his death he turned this information in to the
Department of Justice in San Francisco. He "may" have also let Dave Toschi know
some of the info he had been collecting. To my knowledge he never told Tom Voight or
anyone else of this "suspect".
It is my understanding that this is some of the information he acquired:
1. His suspect moved from Texas to California in the mid 60's
2. His suspect worked at all the universities and small colleges in Northern california installing fire sprinkler systems. He also worked in Santa Rosa at the Hewlett-Packert plant and at the Solono country fair. Avery discoved that this man had also worked at Century 21 as a real estate agent but was unable to continue the job due to back and knee surgeries and that he the had problems with the women in the office.
3. He was a student pilot at Napa
4. From DMV Avery was able to determine the type of automobiles this man owned. At one time he owned a 1970 Pontiac Catallina the type with the console in the middle. Also during this time period his suspect had become sick and had lost close to 60 lbs and weighed about 160 lbs his normal weight being over 200 lbs.
5. Avery was able to determine that his suspect was about 5 foot 10 inches and had worn his hair in a flatop till 1980. His hair had a reddish tint and the man definately had an Irish look about him. He was barrel chested and was known for being hot headed. He also spoke in a peculiar manner typical of someone raised in the south but with a more deliberate way of pronouncing his words.
6. Avery also found out that this man at one time had a time share in a conduminum at Lake Tahoe.
7. Avery being the sharp reporter he was had somehow acquired the military records of his suspect and discovered his man had spent some time in England.
8. At first Avery tried to crack the case himself and did not reveal any of this information to anyone.
9. Avery found out this man was a Mason and believed that by being a Mason this man had access to information not normally given to other people.
10. Avery to my knowledge turned copious amounts of information to the Department of Justice sometime last year. The information was given to Paul Mulligan who in turn turned it over to a team of investigators who are now looking into this matter. A profiler Sharon Padget was called in one the case and is still actively involved with it.
11. Avery had no illusions about cracking this case since so much time had elapsed and so little physical evident was left behind at the crime scene.
Avery believed that his suspect met Paul Stine while Paul was at San Francisco State college and befriended him. Avery felt this man cultivated the friendship for murderous reasons. Avery was convinced that this man knew the schedlue of Paul Stine and called in for a taxi knowing which way Stine would drive and flagged him down as Paul proceeded to his call.
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (ac93ac20.ipt.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 12:50 pm:|
Funny how Avery kept all of this from his wife. According to her, Paul had absolutely no involvement in the Zodiac case for years prior to his death.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (proxy-dover.mednet.af.mil - 126.96.36.199) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 01:44 pm:|
The 1970 Catalina sounds impressive until you understand that the car used to "abduct" Kathy Johns wasn't a new model, which it would have been had it been a 1970.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust37.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 02:03 pm:|
I know it wasn't a new model. What is meant to say was she was abducted in 1970 and the car had a console in the middle. Please excuse this small mistake. What I meant to say was that a car that was a Pontiac Catalina has located through DMV. the year model I don't know.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust25.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 06:02 pm:|
Avery understood that the obsession with the Zodiac case had ruined many lives and destroyed marriages. Paul, most likely did not want his wife to know he was still involved in this case for that very reason. Paul felt this man was the Zodiac but because of the relative lack of physical evidence left behind at the crime scenes Avery felt his suspect he would never be apprehended. Sometimes one reaches an impasse, you know who is the killer but you cannot prove it in a court of law.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust25.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 06:09 pm:|
Let me make one correction. The profiler's name is Sharon Pagter.
|By Sharkey (Sharkey) (1cust197.tnt5.topeka.ks.da.uu.net - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 06:15 pm:|
Are there any other points besides the 11 listed above? The information given in those 11 points alone is really weak. The reason I ask is that you stated that "Avery to my knowledge turned copious amounts of information to the Department of Justice sometime last year..." If those 11 points are all that the "copious amount" consists of, I'd say it is pretty weak. If you have more information, post it.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust25.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 06:28 pm:|
Yes, Avery had other points:
He knew the suspects military history
He knew his medical history
He had his employment records and the unions he had worked for
Avery could place his suspect in the areas of all the murders
Avery had from the Texas and California DMV all the automoblies his suspect owned.
I can say this his suspect owned cars that fit the descriptions of some of the cars associated with the Zodiac especially the Pontaic Catalinna.
Avery also knew that his suspect was still alive even up to the time Avery died.
The Department of Justice is actively looking into Avery's information and I feel it would be unwise to post many of the details of this information on a public discussion board. Just what kind of details do you need?
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (ac803e65.ipt.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 07:08 pm:|
Obaz, this sounds exactly like the same crap you used to e-mail me a couple of years ago. Of course, Avery was still alive then so your story has changed.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust208.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 07:26 pm:|
Tom, time will tell if this is crap. First It was Paul Mulligan who told me the Solono investigation was going on. I never read it in the newspapers. Secondly, I personally spoke to Paul and to Sharon. As for Avery, we had numerous conversations over the years. You may ask why now? I am tired of all the inane assumptions of Zodiac being the Unabomber, Allen( he makes a good suspect but your climbing up the wrong tree), a follower of Charlie Manson and the other postings on this board. And lastly I have reached the point where I have nothing to lose by posting information on this board. Why don't you call Paul Mulligan or Sharon ? Surely a man of your influence would have no problems verifying what I have posted on this board.
|By ZK (Zander_Kite) (a010-0720.stbg.splitrock.net - 184.108.40.206) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 11:17 am:|
Thomas R, you think it is insane to believe a proven bomb-making, letter writing terrorist killer who wrote in a diary about his desire to kill as early as 1966 could be Zodiac. Yet it's okay to promote this unknown because he's 5'10" with red hair and didn't get along well with women at the office ?????
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-wb013.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 11:30 am:|
Do you think this guy could be Kane?
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust206.tnt2.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 18.104.22.168) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 02:14 pm:|
No, he is not Kane. He is none of the popular suspects.
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-mtc-ta031.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 02:52 pm:|
Just a note on thing I found interesting about your suspect. I have always thought Zodiac was probably dyslexic due to his severe spelling errors (as I've said before as a teacher, I see these types of errors often in dyslexic students).
Furthermore, it contrary to what Tom stated it is not universally accepted that all of Z's errors were done intentionally --read Kelleher -- who believes the Z was dyslexic also.
Back to my point, nearly all dyslexics tend to use a deliberate style of pronouncing some of their words, it is simply a common trait they have.
( We see this with new prez Bush who many experts agree is dyslexic---his people have never denied this.)
They are also usually highly intelligent people in other than scholastic ways.
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (ac8d4e5f.ipt.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 03:09 pm:|
There is no evidence Zodiac was dyslexic.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust202.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 188.8.131.52) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 04:36 pm:|
To my knowledge this person is not dyslexic. However he is ambidextrous. Of course this in itself proves nothing. His use of words is almost archaic. He especially enjoyed speaking and dressing like a Brit. Perhaps he picked this up while he was in England. If the composite done at Lake Berryessa had been circulated more then perhaps he would have become a suspect sooner as that composite is a dead ringer for him. Intellectually I would describe him as bright and methodical. He certainly is not a genius. More than anything he is lucky. In many ways he reminds be of Ted Bundy-charming, personable, clever. Instead of seeking the light( a Masonic vow) he chose to seek the darkness within himself. At any rate I have no illusions of him being apprehended unless DNA can tie him into some of the crimes. This matter is no longer in my hands.
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-wd084.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 04:50 pm:|
Thomas, do you know if he had a Riverside connection?
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust144.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 05:42 pm:|
I do know in 1966 he moved to California and he may have stopped over in Riverside. At the time I believe he may have had a beard. I also know he drove an older car a 52-54 year. The type of old car described as being seen but I cannot say that he killed Cheri Jo bates unless she or her father had at one time lived in Texas and he knew the family.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust144.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 18.104.22.168) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 05:55 pm:|
Let me clarify my last statement. He may have moved to California in late 1965. It is possible that since he helped install fire sprinkler systems in colleges and universities that he may have worked there. Paul Avery would have had access to that information. I do know that in 1965 he bought a new white 6 cyclinder Chevy Belaire and that his second car was a much older model. Anywhere from a 48 model to a 54 model.
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-mtc-th012.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 06:02 pm:|
It works for me that Z must have had some sort of Texas connection. He seems to have been heavily influenced by the Texarkana murders. One can almost picture it--a little boy Z in 1946 saying --now that's what I want to be when I grow up.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust58.tnt2.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 06:07 pm:|
In 1946 he wasn't a little boy. He was 17 years old.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust64.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 188.8.131.52) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 06:29 pm:|
The most logical question to ask is did the college have any fire sprinkler systems installed in late 65 or early 66? This may be an easy question to answer. If the answer is yes then what company installed them and who did they have working there. If the answer is no then we can rule out that Avery's suspect worked there.
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-wg012.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 09:30 pm:|
So now we know that this suspect was born in 1929
Anything else we can be privy to?
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust69.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 05:24 am:|
For some of you who may be into astrology: Astrologically he is a Cancer with his moon
in Aries, his mercury in Gemini, his Venus in Taurus in the 4th house squaring his
Neptune-Mars conjunction in his 8th house. His rising sign is Capricorn.
Here are the squares in his chart
Sun square Uranus
Mars square Jupiter
Uranus square Pluto
Moon Square Pluto
Venus square Neptune Mars conjunction
Ascendent square Moon
Jupiter square Neptune
Mars trine Saturn
Moon trine Saturn
Moon trine mercury
Saturn trine Neptune
From Masonic mythology you have the Osirian mysteries. Osiris was the god of the underworld, ruler of the dead, Osiris is represented by either the sun or the moon, Osiris is represented by the Nile river(water) and is ruled by the day Saturday and the astrological sign Capricorn. The sacred drama is carried out on a Saturday at the full moon on a lake. Also the Masons are represented by the oblong square with the 4 solstice points at each corner with Osiris in the middle dispensing justice. This oblong square is called the Zodiac. Osiris is also represented by the crossed circle the type Zodiac used in his letters.
Now back to the assumption that the suspect worked at the college in Riverside. If he did then he would have had ample time and opportunity to inscribe his little poem on the bottom of the desk.
|By Sandy (Sandy) (c531918-a.ptbrg1.sfba.home.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 11:29 am:|
Can you tell me if this suspect has a lazy eye? Scars along his jawline, a deep circle scar on this right cheek with a cross inside of it? Hazel eyes? Walks with a slight limp? A (Z)shaped scar on his chin? Was his mother from England? Is his speech very slow and deliberate, in a monotone way? Was he in the Navy in 46 teaching code? Did he use many names? Thank you for your input, I find it fascinating. I wrote to Paul in the early 90s, and gave him a picture of my no. one suspect who can be placed in all the sites at the right time but at that time I had him with a name never mentioned on this board initials of RH.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust115.tnt2.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 12:27 pm:|
No, he was in the Air force. Joined in 1947. He had old acne scars on his chin. He has a round face with a heavy brow. He has thick eyebrows. His hair was brown with a light reddish tint to it. He wore glasses off and on in the 60's. His eyes are difficult to describe. I used to sit in his garage and his eyes would gleam as he spoke about his dark self hovering on the walls and ceiling. His eyes were hazel-green-blue depending on the light. We would quote poetry to each other. At one time he was quoting from the Mikado and asked me what came next? He told me he had a friend he had worked with who had one of his kids killed by the Zodiac. We always spoke of Zodiac in the third person. He didn't have a lazy eye. His speech was more deliberate than slow and his voice had an unusual quality about it. He went through SAC training. He enjoyed playing with words. He would use odd words and phrase them in an odd manner. He had no limp but I do know he has had more operations of both his knees within the last few years. He is a stout looking man. Heavyset. Hairy chest. He never looked his age. Even today he looks much younger than his real age. I think he may be dying his hair as it still has that reddish tint to it. He is extremely anti-Semetic. I would be curious to know if any of his victims were Jewish? Finally, I am positive he is reading all the posts I am making on this board.
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-mtc-th031.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 03:47 pm:|
Any idea, if indeed he is Z, as to why he suddenly quit? Did he have a life change circa the early 70's?
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust136.tnt2.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 04:57 pm:|
He had knee and back surgeries in the early 70's but did he quit killing? I don't think so. I still consider him a dangerous evil person who just happens to be an old man. At one point in our relationship he said he had never been happy and had considered suicide several times. He said something like blowing his F---king head off.
|By Thomas Richardson (Obaz23) (1cust147.tnt1.san-angelo.tx.da.uu.net - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 03:28 am:|
Another point, he considers himself to be an extremely truthful man. If he told the newspapers that he would no longer advertise his killings then I am sure he kept his word. Also, he did say he had placed his identity in the first cipher. He did but in such a way that it would be so obscure that he felt no one would find it. In the last line of the cipher he puts the vin number of a 65 Chevy Belaire figuring no one would use numerology to discern it.
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-wo062.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 09:21 am:|
The name Stine certainly sounds Jewish, but I can humbly state that I do not know his religious affiliation.