Your Suspect - 3 Proofs. Put your money where.... Message Board: Other Suspects: Your Suspect - 3 Proofs. Put your money where....

By Sharkey (Sharkey) ( - on Sunday, April 29, 2001 - 09:45 am:

I wanted to create a place on this message board where people can list their suspect and the TOP THREE reason he is the Zodiac. It can be Allen, Kane, Kaczynski, whoever you think, but you HAVE TO LIMIT your reasons to the TOP THREE reasons you think your suspect is the Zodiac. No ramblings, dubious, half truth statements. Give us your THREEE strongest points that lead to your subject.

By ZK (Zander_Kite) ( - on Sunday, April 29, 2001 - 06:56 pm:

He is the unknown suspect because: 1.he must have been living in Vallejo from 12.20.68 to 7.4.69, near Lake B. on 9.27.69, and lived in S.F on 10.11.69. No suspect matches this. 2.Since pen was put to paper, his handwriting must match. 3. Fingerprints(about 50) are currently awaiting Zodiacs capture and then conviction. If you want a more serious answer: Kazinski because: 1. timeline (rambling and jobless during z's letter writing campaign) and transitions? (guns to being scared to bomb threat mail to bomb mail, letters cease when Ted retreats to isolation). 2.Ted/Z exact samekind of suspect/mindset/person 3. Lack of something of substance that would at least cast doubt on Ted's viability as a suspect.

By Kevin (Kevinrm) ( - on Sunday, April 29, 2001 - 11:45 pm:

Marshall, because...

1) Film/silent movie connection is strongest of all suspects.

2) Went through the process of having his name changed...why?

3) Full access to teletype paper & strong electronics background.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 01:01 am:

Needless to say, I hold Kaczynski as the best suspect, because:

(1) His psychological portrait matches Zodiac's, based on Zodiac's victimology;

(2) He is a known murderer whose signature matches Zodiac's in that he used murder as a vehicle for national publicity (including letter-writing to the same media as Zodiac and the idle threat of mass murder); and

(3) Proximity to the event scenes. In the area for two of the known murders and deliberately moving toward the area from his residence two thousand miles away during several of the letter-writing events.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 09:06 am:

1--If Hines is correct, he is the only one who is known to have lived near all crime scenes (including Riverside),(except LB but that was an exception).
2--Naval history, knew codes, anti-social--fits the profile.
3--is the only suspect positively identified as "the one" by a Z victim (I believe she was indeed a Z victim).
(Mageau recently told my brother he really could not see the perp-- he said he thought it was a cop,with the light shining at him.)

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 11:11 am:

Sylvie, Kane can't be placed anywhere near Vallejo. Not by Hines, not by anyone.

Regardless of what your brother claims, detective Bawart got a positive ID from Mageau on Arthur Leigh Allen in the early 1990s.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 11:53 am:

years and years later, with a bright light shining on him,-- I'll trust my brother as his doctor any day.

By Classic (Classic) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 11:58 am:

An as yet unnamed suspect who was a police officer

1.The way he used his car at LHR and BRS and how he used his flashlight at BRS(not sure about LHR, no witnesses)

2.Fingerprints or lack thereof: all of the supposed z prints and no two prints match. I have reason to believe some of these,especially on the letters are fake clues.

3.The three seperate firearms used. Using 3 seperate weapons was smart, maybe a little too smart. Classic

By Classic (Classic) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 12:45 pm:

Forgot one other thing:
4.His actions following the shooting of Paul Stine. Walking away from a murder that he just commited he sees a police car approaching and he doesn't panic(he doesn't know about the mistaken dispatch).How calm and cool do you have to be to do that unless you have experience in maintain calm like cops are taught or you know you can holler "I'm a cop from the ---! Whats going on!" Who would claim to be that who was not under those circumstances. Of course he didn't say anything to Foukes about this because it became apparent very quickly that they weren't after him.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 01:43 pm:

For some time now, my top suspect has been ALA:

1. He lived within a short drive of all the known Z victims. His residence in Vallejo was a mere 4 miles from one scene, 7 miles from another, and within 25-30 minutes of Lake Berryessa. Likewise, SF is just a short distance away.

2. Of the 2500 some odd suspects questioned in the case, ALA was the ONLY suspect that was issued a search warrant 3 times. I believe that the police still have tons of information that we still don't know about.

3. His interviews shortly before his death weren't convincing whatsoever. Even if he wasn't Z, my God, this man was obviously nuts.

4. Z used at least two different firearms, a .22 pistol and a 9mm pistol. Several firearms were seized from ALA's home in 1991. How did he acquire them? To the best of my knowledge, it's illegal to possess a firearm if you've been institutionalized for child molestation. This means that ALA would have had to obtain them illegally. HMMM. And why so many guns of the same caliber? During the 1991 search warrant, the police seized 3 .22 caliber guns. Just seems strange to me.

4. Finally, because of the claims and allegations made by several of ALA's associates.

I know that was more than 3 reasons, but I couldn't help myself.


By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 01:44 pm:

Sylvie wrote:
"years and years later, with a bright light shining on him,-- I'll trust my brother as his doctor any day."

As with other facets of the Zodiac case, it's obvious you aren't concerned with the facts surrounding Mageau's ID.
Even if Mageau's ID was dubious, which we don't know because we weren't there, your claim of Kane being "the only suspect positively identified as "the one" by a Z victim" is false.
Mageau ID'd Allen. Period.

By the way, I've spoken many times with Kathleen Johns, and she has expressed many doubts regarding Kane being the man she encountered.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 01:55 pm:

Sylvie: Didn't KJ also point to ALA as "the one" at one time or another? Also, I have to agree with you about Mageau's testimony. I simply don't see how he could have identified the United States President under the given circumstances, let alone recognize a face of somebody that he didn't even know (or claims to not have known).

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 02:07 pm:

I honestly don't believe that ANY of Z's surviving victims can "positively" identify anybody. My reasons for believing that are explained fully on the "Eyewitnesses?" thread.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 06:18 pm:

I think that people like Mike M., utterly traumatized by what they have experienced will sometimes say anything to be left alone, but privately they express other sentiments.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 07:01 pm:

You mean like Johns?

By Kevin (Kevinrm) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 08:04 pm:

Dear Classic & Scott,

No fair, we're only allowed three!

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 10:41 pm:

Johns would certainly have to be much less traumatized, as she did not take several bullet holes, plus she spent infinitly longer with her abductor.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 10:45 pm:

Also, KJ has given interviews, etc--she is accessible, whereas MM prefers virtual seclusion.

By Bruce (Bruce_D) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 11:28 pm:

1) Because he desires attention
2) He has human blood-just as Z does
3) He is familiar with all the property lines around LB

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) ( - on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 11:54 pm:

I have to believe Carl would have shot himself...

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 03:18 pm:

Sylvie wrote:

Johns would certainly have to be much less traumatized, as she did not take several bullet holes, plus she spent infinitly (italics mine) longer with her abductor.

Sylvie, how many trillions of times have I told you never to exaggerate??? Johns was with her abductor for what? No more than two or three hours? And Mageau was with Z for a few minutes? That hardly constitutes an infinite amount of time in comparison...

Seriously though, I have been told that the only reason Johns even ID'd Kane was because Hines presented her with a photo lineup consisting only of different pics of Kane. Understandably, she could only have chosen Kane as the perp, thereby "confirming" him as Z in Hines' mind...

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 04:07 pm:

I've spoken only once with Kathleen Johns, but the thing that left an impression on my mind was the pride with which she stated that she was "working on a book" with Harvey Hines and had "worked on a book" with Robert Graysmith. It doesn't help your credibility as an eyewitness when you're "working on a book" with the investigator who is responsible for the lineup.

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 09:08 pm:

OK, so far we have Marshall, Kaczinsky, Kane, Allen and the "unknown suspect" (not to be confused with the unknown soldier). There's also Carl, if you really want to count him.

We still have to hear from supporters of Mike O'Hare, Bruce Davis, Peter O., Jack Beeman, Michael Roth, "Andrew Todd Walker," and Robert Hunter Jr. Is there anyone else I've forgotten?

So, put your thinking caps on and let's hear from YOU. This has been interesting so far...

By Mike (Oklahoma_Mike) ( - on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 11:44 pm:

Scott wrote, re: Arthur Allen's firearms; three .22 caliber. . .why so many of the same caliber?"

It's common for gun owners to own several weapons of the same caliber. One simple reason is that you only have to buy one kind of ammunition! That is not suspicious in itself.
You are correct that if Allen was convicted of any felony he could not own a weapon legally. I'm curious, if the police were so hot on his trail as a Zodiac suspect when they seized the guns, why not arrest him for parole violation on weapons posesssion?

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 07:43 am:

If KJ had really wanted to gain attention,she would have fingered TedK as her abductor, now THAT would have caused a stir. Especially since I am sure when Doug spoke to her, he offered TK on a silver platter. ("Are you SURE he didn't look like him!!??").

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 07:52 am:

Sylvie, for your information I didn't ask her a single leading question. I asked her if she had seen a photo of TK in the newspapers. She said she had not, and then affirmed that Zodiac was "this guy from Nevada." She refused to elaborate, or give a name. TK wasn't an issue to her, despite the fact that she had never seen his picture.

By Peter_H (Peter_H) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 08:39 am:

Mike: OK it's way off topic, but its where the thread has gone, so as Tom has not jumped in yet . . . You asked, as many others have, why Allen was not busted on a weapons charge after the search. One possible explanation is that he may never have been convicted. Remember that his incarceration was at Atascadero, a state mental hospital which houses a wide variety of forensic patients, many of whom are never convicted of a crime. It may be that Allen was committed in lieu of trial, or under some other circumstances that never imposed the kind of restrictions that convicted felons carry. I do not know whether this is the case, but if so, it may explain VPD's handling of Allen, and resolve one of the repeated criticisms of it. Anyone have any detailed info on the Allen proceedings between his arrest and incarceration, or how such a charge might be handled under California law?


By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 11:56 am:

Does anyone here find it hard to believe that KJ has NEVER seen a photo of the Unabomber?? I was living in France when he was apprehended and his photo was splashed all of the newspapers.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 12:08 pm:

Sylvie, you need to go back and read my posting. I did not say, nor did I imply, that Johns had NEVER seen a photo of the Unabomber. I stated that when I spoke with her she said that she had not seen a photo of the Unabomber. That was in April of 1996, five years ago. I haven't spoken with her since. It's obvious that she doesn't consider him to have been the man who abducted her.

If you weren't so emotive you'd be able to read something without leaping to conclusions that aren't warranted by the facts.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 12:52 pm:

Doug, well, thank you I take emotive as a nice compliment. Yes, I got your post right you said she stated that she had NEVER seen a photo of the Unabomber, you never mentioned that this conversation happened in 1996.
But thank you for admitting that it is clear that KJ does not believe her abductor was TedK, as certainly after speaking with you she would have wanted to take a look at this possible Z, if there was even a remote possibility, and did not see a match.
Tom states in his news update that KJ "vehemently denies having identified anyone but Kane", you state that she "affirmed it was this guy from Nevada ", which we can all assume is Kane. --All this just to help Hines??? Why can't we just take her at her word.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 01:02 pm:

Of course this does not mean that the abductor of KJ was Zodiac.
Question for board: can anyone here think of any reason why Zodiac would possibly want to take credit for the ride with the "woeman and her baby" if he was not involved?

By Joe (Joe) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 01:06 pm:

Because he read about it in the paper.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 02:54 pm:

plenty of more interesting occurrences in the paper--that's for sure.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 03:05 pm:

"can anyone here think of any reason why Zodiac would possibly want to take credit for the
ride with the "woeman and her baby" if he was not involved?"

Sylvie, that was a really stupid question.
What better way for Zodiac to get publicity without the risk of actually commiting the crime and getting caught?

By the way, since you are still at the bottom of the learning curve with no apparent desire to stray from the board long enough to learn the facts, which at one point I politely encouraged you to do, Zodiac also claimed he was going to shoot school children and blow up a school bus. He never did. He also alluded to other crimes he didn't commit, such as the stabbing deaths of two female students, and the murder of a SF police officer.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 03:44 pm:

Ditto to what Tom says above, and I should add that he went out of his way to get credit for the crimes he actually did commit, offering details of the crime scenes, pieces of bloody shirt, etc. Something tells me that if he had actually abducted Johns he would have offered some special details, known only to him and the police, to substantiate his claim.

But taking credit for the abduction might have been a stroke of genius on his part. We've seen how readily people take him at his word in reference to events such as the Johns affair. That being the case, in the event he were ever charged with being Zodiac, he could simply provide a good alibi for that date, and thus sow considerable doubt in the minds of prosecutors and/or jurors.

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 04:07 pm:

Back to the topic at hand... of course, everyone should know by now that I'm pretty much neutral regarding who I think Z really was, but rather look at suspects as to whether they are less likely rather than more likely. With that out of the way, and just to get things going (read "attempt to stir up a hornet's nest" and/or "get people to offer their reasons for their favorite suspect"), I'll offer Peter O. as a suspect:

1) He bears a striking resemblance to the SFPD composite;

2) He was in the Navy in the 1960's and studied cryptography; and

3) He was an expert marksman (although it should be clear by now that I do not think Z was a marksman of any sort (at least, not a very competent one); rather, I offer this as proof that he was reasonably familiar with firearms, as was Z).

Who's next?

P.S. Maybe I'll offer another suspect later on just to see what happens...

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 05:09 pm:

I am happy to say I still believe that Johns was abducted by Zodiac even if it is not a "popular" proposition.Yes, mr. ego maniac did claim credit for the Johns "interesting ride"-and this is what is so amazing-it was a defeat, something he detested ,yet, admitted!

To me-not most on the Board-the John's kidnapping is possibly a Z event. The two incidents that were mentioned were "successful" 187's and an ego like his would claim them if he felt he could get by with it-but a resounding failure would be different.He stated he had her on his "list".He spells "woeman" thusly ,and what if in that Halloween card when the author wrote "To the woman in the blue station wagon he had used the same misspelling and the handprinting was the same as Z's"?

What Iam saying is I am going to stay open, as at least one piece of evidence is 'lost' at this time.I think everything looks like a possible Zodiac attack.

Just taking an opposite view to stir debate I see Z claiming two victims in August of 1969-he does NOT say who they are and where they were killed!WE say it was the two girls-but not Zodiac.Then we refer to Z's statement that he shot a "man"with a .38 who was sitting in a car.An officer was shot with such a weapon as Z states and he was sitting in a parked car-but Z does not say it was a "cop" or even a "Blue meannie."We do not have enough info at this point. Why didn't Z say it was a cop?He hated police and would loved to have shot one-"there is more glory in killing a cop than a kid" said Z!Our very public killer knew that his every word was being srcutinized and he was working to give his "Thing" credibility- as the posters have brought out -why blow it with claiming murders that he knew could be solved at any time?Just FYI stuff,

By Esau (Esau) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 06:03 pm:

I've always been under the impression that Z may have been trying to get investigators to branch out to out of state crimes when claiming he shot a man in a parked car with a .38 and added 2 victims for August 1969. There was no VICAP back then and it is possible. Teddy K was known to travel from state to state......

By Roger Redding (Roger_Redding) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 10:24 pm:

Ok, I'll give it a shot. How about the "British Engineer"?:
Non-cliched use of British idioms ("Happy XMass").
Use of engineering jargon ("checks out end-to-end"). Also, I believe someone said something about radians?
Wales is part of Britain.

Sylvie, if Tom doesn't take you up on that condo
on the beach near Marseilles, well I could use a

Thought pastis were an article of clothing,


By Roger Redding (Roger_Redding) ( - on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 10:30 pm:

Howard, I agree with just about every word you wrote (don't let THAT happen again!). We know who
killed Debbie Furlong and Kathy Snoozy. We know,
I think, who shot Richard Radetich. We don't
know who kidnapped Kathleen Johns. Zodiac seems
as good a suspect as any, until someone better
comes along.


By Legal Eagle (Legaleagle) ( - on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 11:36 am:

John Doe:

1. I don't believe police have ever interviewed or came close to identifying the real Zodiac.
2. None of the suspects ever identified whom I have seen a picture of looks remotely like the composite. ( Peter O. is one exception )
3. The real Zodiac is dead, the likely victim of a drug or alcohol overdose.

By Peter H (Peter_H) ( - on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 12:09 pm:

I agree w/ Leagle Eagle on point No. 1.

Second point is true but inconclusive.

Third point is probable

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) ( on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 09:44 pm:

A "Blue Velvet" scenario involving the Vallejo PD.

1) Incompetence can only go so far.

2) Indicators that more than one perp was involved (cf. the discrepancies in physical size, etc.).

3) Ferrin & possibly Jensen involved in the dope trade, also possibly Stine.

The letters were a brilliantly crafted distraction designed to go with the "random" killings as additional cover-up material. Maybe Penn wrote them, heh.

By Mike (Oklahoma_Mike) ( on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 10:19 pm:

Legal Eagle

Point 1. Either not interviewed or interviewed and never taken seriously as a suspect. Since the cops from different jurisdictions interviewed so many, there is a good chance someone talked to him. But I agree he was never considered a strong suspect.

Point 2. I agree. I think the composite is reasonable accurate, in spite of the criticism it receives from some quarters. If the police had no confidence in the sketch, why did they circulate it as, in effect, a wanted poster.

Point 3. I agree he is dead, cause unknown. Only other possibility is incarcerated for other crime or too seriously injured to do anything.

By Sandy (Sandy) ( - on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 11:07 am:

Mike I agree with your point 1 and 2. But I most certainly believe he is very much alive,still killing from state to state. He is keeping his word, as far as not announcing to anyone who he has killed. Oh he still gets plenty of attention which he craves! When ever a unsolved homicide is put on the airways for days, even years, don't you think he could be sitting down saying: "Yeah" I did that one, and I will do more, cause killing people is more fun than wild game! I believe he leaves clues like notes,phone calls,but won't say he is the Zodiac. (He would rather not get caught.) I do believe he is one of our suspects. A good chance he knew of Allen, planted the bombs to set him up,even gave him some z like symbols to help build a case against Allen.( if in fact Allen had them). If Allen said it was a note from a madman, he was right! I also stick by my story that more than one person is envolved, who are closely connected through a cult, drugs, and counterfeit money. That Darlene was a hit from one of these men,and her exhusband was envolved with them . The others were killed to throw the police off of Darlene,and it did just that. She is the key to solving this case.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) ( - on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 11:16 am:

then what about LHR? Do you believe that was a different perp?
Alan, I find your #2 intriging.
The murders that most closely resemble Z was SON of SAM. No doubt David Berkowitz was indeed involved but most investigators and surviving victims are positive there was more than one perp. There were eye witnesses that saw a totally different person than Berkowitz.
Why not something similiar with Z.

By Sandy (Sandy) ( - on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 11:31 am:

Z.K. Yes two suspects do fit. Kane lived in S.F at the right time. Was seen by more than three people in Vallejo many times,before Darlene was killed.Is known to be the man stalking her durring that time. L.B is not far from Vallejo. The other suspect who lived in Vallejo just before Lake Herman shooting,was married to Darlene, beat her up so badly she went to the Hospital more than once.Was living in S.F. at the time of the Paul Stine shooting.Lived a few miles from Riverside in Oct. 66,was put in a stockaide at the "Presido" while he was stationed there in the Army.Told Darlene if he couldn't have her, no one would. Looking at his back ground, he fits the serial killer profile,starting with being abandoned at birth.He looked the most like the composite of all the known suspects.

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 10:58 pm:

Lately, I've been wondering if Z:

1) Was never interviewed by anyone, or, if so, was cleared immediately because he didn't "fit the profile," but did resemble the composite;

2) Was either born in Vallejo or lived there most of his life, and is still living there today and is in his late 60's;

3) He led a relatively normal life (and still does today), had a steady job, was probably married and had kids, and despite having no criminal record, committed the Z crimes as more of an intellectual exercise (to see if he could get away with it) more than anything else.

This could explain why we're no closer to identifying Z now than in 1969.

By John Prisk (Prisk29) ( - on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 12:25 am:

Yeah, it would kind of be like hidding in plain sight. It would also seem that if such were the case than the years of investigation were acctually to the unsub's benefit. That is to say if investigators were so locked into a certain "picture" of the killer to the exclusion of all else he may very well have been dismissed quite earley on without so much as a second thought; free in the knowlege he did not fit the profile. Rather disheartening,(and at the same time thought provoking) huh?

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 01:12 am:

Even those who were very obviously guilty (or at least should have been investigated further than they were initially) in other crimes got away with it for, in some cases, decades. I think the main reason is incompetence. The ones who come to mind are Gary Ridgway, Peter Sutcliffe, Heriberto Seda, and Carey Stayner, to name a few. And I'm sure there are many, many others that the Keystone Kops had in their grasp but let go for whatever moronic reason.