Coincidences: I am Zodiac


Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Other Suspects: Coincidences: I am Zodiac

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (tcache-tq01.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.201.43) on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 10:37 pm:

I know a thing or two about the suspect featured in last year's San Francisco Chronicle story, in fact I spoke with him at length a couple of weeks ago. I've also seen the report Mike Rodelli prepared about him, which is peppered with zynchronicity. IMHO, there is absolutely nothing about the suspect's background to make him a good candidate as a violent, Z-type criminal.

However, if we focus hard enough, it's possible to find Z-like connections with anyone. Let's use me as an example. If the crimes happened today, I could be a suspect because:
1) I resemble the Zodiac composite
2) I was born near Riverside
3) I was in the navy
4) My father was a newspaper man
5) My sister was born on July 4
6) A very close approximation of my first and last name is in the 340 cipher

Am I a violent, f***** up person? No, and if your suspect isn't, either, he probably isn't Zodiac...regardless of coincidences.

By Eduard (Eduard) (i0416.pvu.euronet.nl - 194.134.165.161) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 04:01 am:

The crimes didn't happened today so your example is not useful, maybe if you tried something like that with ALA. LOL

Eduard

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acb6d5b6.ipt.aol.com - 172.182.213.182) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 12:47 pm:

This is a cool way to show the zynchronicities surrounding us various investigators. Let's see what I can come up with:

1) I was in the military (Air Force);
2) I have lived in the Bay Area for almost 13 years and am very familiar with the Napa/Vallejo area;
3) For 10 years, I lived within 10 miles of the Vallejo crime scenes and other associated landmarks;
4) I travel to Lake Berryessa frequently and am familiar with it;
5) I travel to San Francisco frequently and am familiar with it;
6) My father taught chemistry for 24 years, and I know something about it;
7) I was born in Los Angeles, within a two-hour drive from Riverside;
8) I like to solve the ciphers in the Sunday Chronicle, which makes me very familiar with basic cryptography;
9) My third nephew was born on July 5th (zynchronicitously on the 30th anniversary of BRS);
10) One of my brothers is a Taurus, as is one cousin and one grandmother;
11) One song I specifically remember from grade school was from The Mikado (although not the one Z used);
12) If I wore shoes/boots with thick heels and/or lifts, I would be Z's approximate height, based on Mageau's description;
13) I'm the right age for Z, based on the SF composite;
14) If there is anything to Foukes' "Welsh" statement, I could be considered to resemble Z based on my ethnic background (remember Catherine Zeta-Jones in The Mask of Zorro? She's Welsh but looks Spanish/Hispanic. I'm the other way around...);
15) I was an expert marksman in the Air Force, which means I can hit whatever I'm aiming at at least 9 times out of 10;
16) My brother-in-law was born on October 13th, the day Z mailed his letter after murdering Stine;

And the list goes on... and on... and on...

Based on zynchronicity, I could very easily be a Z-suspect, if the crimes were committed today. Anyone else?

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (acb79c56.ipt.aol.com - 172.183.156.86) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 12:51 pm:

Ed, you sound like too good of a shot to be Z.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (169.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.16.169) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 01:23 pm:

Ed--You're missing a few things:

(1) A common psychological profile (we hope).
(2) proximity
(3) a common criminal signature (once again, we hope).

This is the base from which suspicion must start. Everything else (the qualities you mentioned above) are only so many nails in the coffin.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p31.as1.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 159.134.234.31) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 02:07 pm:

Ed,we knew all about you,remember the Zodies?
How the hell is NEIL Spanish/Hispanic?
I seem to remember in a discussion on Zodiac's proficiency with weapons you stated you were not familiar with same.WHassup am I wrong?

By Ed N (Ed_N) (spider-ntc-ta044.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.16.39) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 04:34 pm:

Douglas: you missed the point. Everything that I listed would probably have been more than enough to have NSD, VPD, SFPD et. al. check me out back in the day, had someone I known turned me in (especially if that someone didn't like me and wanted to hassle me). Same with Tom. And the same for a host of others too, I would imagine. I would have been cleared immediately, however, based on your first and third points, and, assuming that the crimes took place today, your second point would count me in, not out. Regardless, what I was getting at is that zynchronicities abound in this case, for both suspects and investigators. Besides, in 1981, NSD investigated none other than Gareth Penn (everyone's favorite whipping boy), based on a single point, far less than what I listed for myself: he spoke to Narlow about the radian, and that was enough to raise his suspicion.

Lapumo: it's not. It's Scottish/Irish in origin. I'm a Heinz 57, so I don't get my ethnicity from the same place I get my surname... you should see my nephews, the inheritors of the name. They look more Native American than anything else... I don't recall mentioning that I wasn't familiar with weapons (what was the reference, and do you remember it in context?). The only time I ever fired a gun was in basic training, and it was an M16 modified to shoot .22's. Bet I can still hit the bull's-eye 9 times out of 10 though...

By Roger Redding (Roger_Redding) (user-33qs00i.dialup.mindspring.com - 199.174.0.18) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 10:22 pm:

OK, I'll play:

1) My first car was a light-colored Chevelle.
2) I'm good at math, and know what a radian is.
3) My parents used to live in Montana and Northern California.
4) My handwriting is almost equally illegible with either hand.
5) An ex-girlfriend once told that I wrote like a serial killer.
6) This is the truly creepy thing: my birthday is one day after Paul Stine's (and Allen's!) and one
day before the anniversary of the Lake Herman Road murders.

going to the fridge to check on Jane,

Roger

By Mark (Mark) (57-126-237-24.anc-dial.gci.net - 24.237.126.57) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 10:59 pm:

Heres my zynchronicity-oriented profile:

1. Lived in the Bay Area (Palo Alto) from '65
to '73
2. Was familiar with San Francisco
3. Was familiar with firearms, had access to
my Dad's gun collection (fairly lousy shot
also!)
4. Delivered the SF Chronicle during most of
the murders (much better to read the news
hot off of the presses!)
5. Father served in the Naval Reserve
6. Mother sang opera
7. Was familiar with Lake Berryessa
8. Drove Highway 80 past Napa and Vallejo often
9. Had relatives in the LA area
10.Used blue felt tip pens exclusively
11.Read and collected Batman comics

And of course with further digging I could come up with some date matching, etc. Tom you raise a very valid point, so many people have common characteristics to the Zodiac file-I was even a bit surprised at how many I had off of the top of my head! Obviously with just a little investigative work 90% of mine wouldn't hold water but the coincidences are there. I read the Rodelli interview a couple days ago, I'm certainly not in any position to discount his work, he seems to be very meticulous in his approach. I imagine you can't go into any particulars about what you read Tom (or the conversation!!) but in your view what percentage of his findings are closer to the contrived/coincidental arena as opposed something that's going to warrant additional investigation that only law enforcement has resources for?
-Mark

By Mark (Mark) (57-126-237-24.anc-dial.gci.net - 24.237.126.57) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 11:04 pm:

Roger-uh oh! I grew up in Montana (Bozeman) before I moved to Northern California! OOh Spooky!

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p15.as1.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 159.134.234.15) on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 04:19 am:

Ed,ref Weapons,I believe it would be last October or early November.I think it was an opening or closing remark again on the discussion
about Zodiac,s capability with firearms.I obviously mistook your meaning.We were all over the place at that time.If I come across it I let you know.
I figured Neil must have an Irish connection.
I see the Scottish/Irish connection unfold during your recent trip to the bay area.
You spoke of saving $$$ ..obviously Scottish
and Geezer,s great place for BEER...that's the Irish coming out:).
FYI- Your ancestors would have originally moved from Scotland to Ireland.You would be a descendant
of one of the High Kings of Ireland one "red"
Hugh O Neil. O in Ireland is like Mc in Scotland
meaning SON OF.It is a bloody shame though he did not have the same proficiency in Weapons as you do.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (spider-ti053.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.194.198) on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 09:35 am:

Okay folks, I'll play also. But first, why does everyone seem to believe that Z wasn't proficient with weapons or a good marksman? Because he didn't have a tight grouping of shots on Betty Lou Jensen on the night of Dec. 20th, 1968? Is this really so hard to believe if he was shooting at her while on the run and at night? I use to compete in shooting competitions for nearly ten years, and just the other day, while shooting one of my .44s at the local range, was able to maintain consistent 1 1/2" groupings at fifteen yards shooting free-handed. However, my rapid fire, double-action groupings at seven yards were as big as a dinner plate, but I can still qualify as an expert marksman within the ranks of competitive shooting. I don't believe that enough information is available to determine whether or not Z was a skilled marksman. But I digress . . .

1. I'm an expert with guns, especially handguns.

2. I could easily match the SFPD composites if I wore glasses.

3. I'm heavy enough to have made the boot imprints that Z left at Lake Berryessa.

4. I have numerous relatives and friends in California and visit them frequently. I'm very familiar with SF, Vallejo, and Riverside.

5. Although I was never in the military, my father was a member of the Army's 5th Special Forces Group, and he wanted me to follow in his footsteps and was disappointed when I didn't. My desire to murder could be attributed to my lack of fatherly approval.

6. I once owned a Chevelle Super Sport and also a white Chevy Impala.

7. I often wear a pair of Bates military boots, especially when in the wilderness of the Colorado mountains.

8. I always carry a sidearm while hunting, fishing, or backpacking.

9. I always plan ahead.

10. Am very familiar with police procedures: My father is a retired Co. State Patrolman, and I've been on numerous ride-alongs with him and many other police officers.

11. I'm a film fanatic, especially horror films. (This fact undoubtedly contributed to my twisted psychology! LOL.) I once made a horror film while in film school that depicted a killer wearing a black hood. I played the part of the killer and still own the black hood.

12. I'm familiar with mathematics, chemistry, and astrology.

13. I have a laser pointer that can be attached to my SIGPRO pistol.

14. I have a knowledge of disguises that I acquired while obtaining my minor in theater.

Good God, I'd better stop. I'm starting to freak myself out!

Scott

By Esau (Esau) (proxy2-external.scrmnt1.ca.home.com - 24.4.254.113) on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 07:30 pm:

1. I'm from the Bay Area and lived there at the time of the Zodiac killings.
2. I was in the US Navy.
3. I own a pair of Wing Walkers.
4. My father was in the US Navy.
5. I am very familiar with weapons.
6. I was very familiar with Blue Rock Springs, Lake Herman Rd and Lake Berryessa long before I ever heard of Zodiac.
7. I am also familiar with Riverside.
8. I have more that enough training in electronics and demolition to design and build the bus bomb diagram.
9. I love old movies.
10.I fit the general description of Zodiac.

Fortunately for me I was 7 years old at the time of Stine shooting.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-tn052.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.207.67) on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 12:22 am:

Okay Guys,
Obviously I cannot really play because I think one of the things that we all do agree upon is that Z was a man but I can make a real good case for my Dad:
1) lived in San Francisco and environ 1960-74.
2) before dental school at USF was a mechanical engineer at Shell
3) highly intelligent with firm knowledge of mathematecs
4) appearance fits -- in 1969 was 6', 195 lbs., wears glasses exactly like Z's (composite), balding but could be combed to look like crew-cut,
10.5 shoe, Husky look, 36 yrs. in'69
5)took occasional day trips to Lake B. to relax
6)was in the rotc at the time and was always gone on weekends due supposedly to part time jobs.
7)had family in Riverside
8)English heritage
9)really bad temper
10)is a Mason
11)printing looks uncannily like Zodiac's
12)possible motive--his father was puritanistic minister and he was forced into early marriage.
With all due respect to all you guys, I think he comes the closer than anyone on this thread.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (acb5367f.ipt.aol.com - 172.181.54.127) on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 12:33 am:

We should send one of these profiles to the San Francisco Chronicle and see if they will run a new story.

By Mark (Mark) (94-126-237-24.anc-dial.gci.net - 24.237.126.94) on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 03:17 am:

Tom-that's hilarious! How about sending all of them? I can see the headline now-"6 New Suspects in Zodiac case-Voight at Top of List!"

By Mark (Mark) (94-126-237-24.anc-dial.gci.net - 24.237.126.94) on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 03:21 am:

PS-make that "7 Suspects"-I missed one!

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (cache-dh03.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.208.167) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 04:12 am:

(1) Love G&S, especially THE MIKADO
(2) Into cryptography since age 8 [1961]
(3) Fit the SF sketch [also UNABOM sketch, heh]
(4) Fit the "profile"
(5) Occultnik
(6) Capable of time travel since 1972

I've got y'all beat hands down with item (6).

Smell those Douglas Firs.

By Ed N. (Ed_N) (acc77d42.ipt.aol.com - 172.199.125.66) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 09:50 pm:

Alan: good to see you back. I assume that, re: #6, you've gone back to see who Z really is???

By Warren (Warren) (w205.z064002105.hou-tx.dsl.cnc.net - 64.2.105.205) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 12:02 pm:

1. Gun nut, and great shot.
2. White male, never married.
3. Shoe - 10 1/2 D.
4. 7 inch wrist.
5. Looked like the composite, when I did my thing.
6. Had a junker of a car (65 Fairlane, which
had a square zodiac symbol.
7. Was into cheesy costumes, especially around
Halloween.
8. Contempt for the authorities.
9. Liked the Beach Boys, which is, fortunately,
my only connection to Calif.

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.253.38) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 12:09 pm:

Thanks, Ed.

It was Osama Bin Laden. Or Tim McVeigh. It was dark, and I was stoned.