Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Other Suspects: Zodiac Suspect a expert in Mathmatics

I was watching the Zodiac special on "The Learning Channel" the other night. And on that show they mention a professor who is an expert in mathematics, and still gives lectures at colleges. The show would not mention his name, because he still alive. Does anyone else think that is person could be the Zodiac?

Nope.

In the Case of Zodiac nothing is curtain, it can be or not!

i've seen no reason (on this site or in books) to believe that z had any expertise in math.

certainly cryptography is math-intensive, but a simple substitution cypher doesn't require any math to create.

radians were covered in 6th or 7th grade math back in those days, so that doesn't say anything either.

is there something i've missed? i've read speculation that he was some kind of genius, but haven't run across anything (bomb diagram, for example) that's beyond the brain-power of an adolescent.

You didn't miss anything. Z was not that good, nor was he much beyond average intelligence. What he had working for him, which he probably suspected would happen, was the jealousy between jurisdictions that resulted in some non-cooperation between departments that, had it not happened, might have resulted in him being apprehended. Also, he was very lucky. Much of this rubbish about him being a genius is largely the work of the media.

I'm looking closer at Larry Cane these days, so I checked out a few websites on symptoms following head injuries. Of course, many applied to people whose head injuries were so massive that they were left with marked disabilities like the inability to walk, move, talk, think, etc. However, in the somewhat milder categories of symptoms, the lists include aggression, immaturity, egocentrism, sexual deviations, hallucinations, and other behavioral abnormalities. (Search under head+injury if you're interested.) I just thought the list of symptoms gave us a rather interesting set of "problems" that could manifest themselves in someone we now call Zodiac.

Realtor

The fact that Kane was severely brain damaged is evidence that he probably wasn't capable of organized criminal behavior.
There is nothing of substance to link Kane to any of the Zodiac crimes. Harvey Hines has used his status as an ex-police officer to wage a successful campaign of getting publicity for himself and Kane, but that is because the media is mostly ignorant of what makes a good Zodiac suspect.
The ONLY reason Kane is featured as a suspect at my site is because America's Most Wanted profiled him in 11-98.

Tom,
You mentioned that Kane was "probably' not capable of "organized criminal behavior" because of his severe brain damage. I would refer you to several studies which show a marked increase in the inclination (certainly) and the ability (more than you would have us believe) to indulge in "organized" crime after severe head trauma. Look at the studies by Menkler(1987) and Horowitz (1992). Please stick to something you know.
Censored and loving it,
Oscar.
p.s. Thanks for the requested e-mail reply.

Oscar,
I know a little more about Kane than you do.
Have you ever spoken with him?
Do you have SFPD's, VPD's and Hines' reports on him? I didn't think so.
Please stick to something you know.

As far as censorship is concerned, it's my board. Period. If you don't like it, find some elsewhere else to post.

Tom,
Please read carefully. I was making reference to your sweeping comment on the correlation between head trauma victims and their subsequent capacity for "organized criminal" behavior. I did not say anything but this. I recognize that you are a bona fide Zodiac expert with years of experience, but I was, in all fairness, addressing an area that I have knowledge about. Please do not be so defensive. Bad day?
As per the censorship 'thing'. I would just like to understand your reasoning. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yours,
Oscar.
p.s. Put on a happy face.

I know the extent of Kane's brain damage, you do not. My statement wasn't "sweeping," it was specific to Kane, and it stands.

Your post was deleted because it was self-serving , off topic and WAY too big. The subject matter here is Zodiac and his crimes, NOT why we are interested in them. And if you can't write a message using under 1000 words, you need an editor.

Tom,
Having worked extensively as an editor, I will let your brusque, Chandleresque critique of my style slide off my back. However, I think the reason why this case seems to resonate within so many of us is of interest. You will do what you do, and I defer to your 'taste'.
"Learning is achieved in company."- Talmud
Why not share more of the information that you have? Some of us just might have an interest in Kane's injuries.
Oscar.
p.s. Editorial comment- watch those comma splices!
Word count-88

Kane is a total waste of time in my book, hence my lack of interest in posting anything else regarding him. Plus, the info is out there. If you are truly interested, you can get it...just as I did.

Tom,
With all due respect, I have a life. Do you? Don't you think it is a little perverse to operate this web site, yet withhold information? Your reasoning has the lingering aftertaste of bitter grapes. You have spent years chasing leads, cultivating sources, and pounding the pavement, but you get upset when not everyone has such a fine pedigree. This is strange. Why bother posting anything if you feel this way? You could keep all your 'precious goodies' to yourself.
I suppose I could get off my lazy arse and collect the information myself. I thought that I could use this site to gain such information, but I was obviously mistaken.
Yours Always (until you ban me),
Oscar.
p.s. Try to lighten up a bit.

I couldn't possibly post everything I have...it would take up all the space on the Internet. (And I've really only been involved in the case for about three years.)
As I've explained many times, I have to keep certain rare items private so that I have something to trade when new items surface. It's that simple.

Tom or others who may know:

I hate to beg anyone for anything....not my style. I'll ask, as did Oscar, in another way, and see if you're inclined to answer. What was the extent of Cane's brain damage? Tom, you've either talked to him or met him, so will you tell us what you observed? Does he have slurred speech? Does he stutter? If you met him, does he appear to see and hear OK? Does he walk with a steady gait or a limp of any kind? Do both hands work together and normally? Any obvious facial/neck scarring? Did he have any tics or twitches or odd mannerisms?

Realtor

PS to Oscar: Glad to find someone else with a background and interest in brain injured people.

Kane had a noticeable southern accent. I don't know why, because as far as I know he wasn't raised in the south. The accent alone should disqualify him from serious consideration as a Zodiac suspect.
Kane's brain damage occured when he drove into a cement truck. It's immaterial how he appeared in the late 1990s, and in the late 1960s he looked like Fonzie. He couldn't legally obtain a driver's license due to his brain damage, and was diagnosed as not having the ability to control himself sexually. That doesn't make him a good candidate as Zodiac, IMHO, since Zodiac wasn't a drooling, uncontrolable sexual maniac.

I'm gonna guess that the reason he couldn't get a driver's license is that the brain injury caused him to have seizures. People who have seizures can't drive safely so they can't get licensed. However, I do know of people who have seizures who take the risk and drive anyway....

Interesting note on seizures: After Jack Ruby shot Oswald, Ruby's defense attorney argued that the reason Ruby shot Oswald was that all the flashing camera bulbs caused Ruby to go into a seizure and shoot Oswald without really knowing what he was doing. Farfetched...didn't wash. And it's beside the point.

SO! Cane probably has seizures. Do y'all think that has to rule him out? I'd like to know what others of you think...how about it, Oscar?

As for the Southern accent, there's a bunch of people who put one on when they want to. Most test pilots use one when they're flying because Chuck Yeager had one--at least that's what I read in "The Right Stuff." Cane's having one could have been an act to throw you off, Tom, especially if he wasn't raised in the South and has no good reason to have one. (I'm NOT suggesting he was ever a test pilot 'cause I'm sure he wasn't on flight status if he has seizures!)

I don't think it's immaterial how he appeared in the late 1990's. If he had some (pardon me in advance!) "Mark of Cain" from the accident that anyone seeing his face should have noticed, then Cane can't be our man. None of the Z posters showed nor descriptions mentioned any scarring or disfigurement, did they? If he limps in 1990 from a 1964 accident, Bryan Hartnell would have noticed.

Just poking around....

Realtor

Hi Realtor. I think if Cane had seizures it could certainly rule him out. Imagine how that could get in the way of carrying out Zodiac's crimes! Reminds me of Oliver Twist with that character Monks and his seizures! But seriously too consider that they say stress can trigger a seizure. He may have liked doing these crimes but they have to be stressful right?

I also think to that someone who was unable to control their sexual desires, if they were going to commit a crime, they would just do it and having done that would have been easy to catch and all the letter writing and publicity probably wouldn't have meant too much.

Realtor, it's not so much the seizures that rule Kane out. About the only thing that actually ruled him in was his apparent connection to Donna Lass, who has never been proven to be a Z victim. Other than that, he's an extremely poor Z suspect, and close to the bottom of my list. That's not to say that there is no way that he can be Z, just that he's a very unlikely suspect when compared to some of the others.

Realtor,
Yes, I will respond. If Kane has, or adopted a Southern accent for Tom's benefit, it still goes nowhere. As the wise Ed said, the only connection to Zodiac is through Donna Lass. Lass does not fit Zodiac's preferred victim selection, despite what Hines thinks. That is not to say that Z couldn't have changed his way of doing his "thing", but it is highly doubtful. I have said before that Zodiac was not the criminal genius some of us would believe, but he was almost certainly not acting like someone with serious head trauma. That Z could have been a corn-fed, neck-bolted maniac is too much.
If I'm correct, the people who did hear Zodiac's voice commented that it was, for lack of a better word, 'bland'. He was not some stuttering slack-jawed character from a Faulkner novel, nor did he sound like Buck Owens.
As for your comment about Kane not being a test pilot because of his seizures, let me just ask you this: have you ever flown on American? Yeesh! It makes a guy wonder.
Love,
Oscar.
p.s. Penn in 2004. Ride the lightning!

Oscar: I hate to fly regardless of the integrity of the pilot's brain waves or lack thereof.

So Cane's everybody's least favorite guy. OK. But as far as his handwriting goes, he's my favorite. It's in the lower case r's and p's, the upper case D's and I's and the B isn't too shabby. Much better match than any others I've seen....

Just keeping my eyes open (and my brain waves!)

Realtor

You actually think Kane's handwriting looks better than Ted K.'s, O'Hare's and Allen's?

Well you know I do! Tom, when you wrote Kane has a accent,are you saying you saw him, and spoke to him? If you didn't, I would like to tell everyone who is reading this post, I have! He has a slight drawl, but not a southern drawl, just like Hartnell discribed. The drawl comes from the slight paralysis of his face, caused by the accident in 62. He walks with a slight limp, rocking from side to side.His right foot points outward as he walks.The further he walks, the less the limp. When he gets upset or nervous,he sweats.He has all the scars that the killer has on his face and neck.His hands shake alot now, maybe thats why he has to type his letters? If he is not the Zodiac, why would he lie about living in S.F.at the time of the Stine shooting? His brain damage is not that bad, or he couldn't of sold real estate property.He does loose control of one eye (lazy eye).The first time I noticed it, he was sitting next to me, I got up real close to see what color his eyes were.Also the police asked me to tell them if I saw anything odd about his eyes!AS far as sexual gratification, he was unable to control masturbation.I was told some of "that" evidence was on one or more of the letters.The person who told me is known not to be credible,however when I felt it was a lie, I found it to be true,and vice-versa. Everything about this man fits,unfortunately it also fits others.I have asked him to meet with me in a public place, and discuss this matter,As you know he claims to of posted a message to me on this board.If it was him he hasn't responded to my request.Of course tonight is Halloween, maybe he will show up as a nice guy? LOL

Sandy,
Did Kane masturbate in front of you? "He has all the scars that the killer has on his face..."- it is my understanding that none of the few Zodiac descriptions mentioned anything about scars. Furthermore, I believe that it was on this board that Tom worte something to the effect that the "scars" were, in fact, the result of poor photo-reproduction of a composite drawing.
Trust me on this: there are plenty of people with severe head trauma working in the real estate business, and I would be willing to refer you to a couple...for a price.
On a more serious note, I really find it more than a bit of a 'stretch' to seriously consider Kane as a viable Zodiac suspect.
Oscar.
p.s. Penn in 2004. Feel the rush!

Do your home work! You can think what you want in regards to Kathleen Johns, but the description she gave of the man who gave her the ride, fits exactly to the tee. The scars, the manner of speech, his eyes, hair, shiny shoes, clothes, glasses. The way he got her to pull over, is what he has done to myself, and a friend of mine.The picture I took of him, shows all the same scars she said he has! Only she didn't have a magnifying glass ,to see that the round scar on his right cheek, has a X mark in the center of it. The two scars she saw on his right chin, just below his lip,is a Z shaped scar!Coincidence? I don't think so. The self gratification is on a report about the man.He obviously has a problem with having normal relations with women.( Not that there is anything wrong with that).Maybe that is why he hates women,he is blaming "them" for his inadequacy.Perhaps you would understand this better than I would.

Sandy,
Fine. This may indeed prove that Kane is a lecherous, sexually twisted thug, but it does not prove anything concerning Kane as a viable ZODIAC suspect. Johns has never been able to maintain a consistent story, and her identification of the Zodiac as the culprit should perhaps be regarded with a degree of restraint. She was- with good reason, I might add- hysterical and overwhelmed by her terrifying experience. She sees the composite on the wall of the biggest 'boogeyman' out there (at the time), and she points the finger. If one can believe other sources, John's has also pointed her indiscriminate finger at another suspect; one that looks nothing like Kane. How do you explain this? I'm not denying that she went through a terrible ordeal, but her story seems to change depending on who she is talking to, and there is nothing tangible that would link her to a Zodiac crime (Z's letter does not mean that he was responsible, as he was a bit loose with the truth at times)
Furthermore, I might make mention of the fact that, to the best of our knowledge, Zodiac did not operate in this fashion. To paraphrase Ed, Zodiac was not concerned with single females, but rather, with young couples (with the exception of Stine).
Why would Kane deny living in S.F. at the time of the Zodiac crimes? Well, for one thing, it is a known fact that head trauma victims may have serious memory retrieval problems, as well as the corresponding decline in gross and fine motor skills. Many case studies show that head trauma victims often can not establish a coherant time line- everything, including dates, times(etc.), becomes 'scrambled'. He may also have not wanted to admit to being in S.F. at the time because of other criminal activities that have nothing to do with the case we are supposed to be discussing.
Outside of you posting a bio with graphic details, there is no way for us 'newbies' to know what you went through, so don't shrug it off as a matter of not doing my "homework'. Maybe you could be a little less abstruse. If you had a difficult time with Kane (or anyone else), then I'm sorry. But, it doesn't mean that Kane is the Zodiac... in fact, he is a very poor suspect(as poor as Johns is a witness).
As for your implication that(and here you become abstruse, once again) I either hate women, or suffer from some kind of sexual inadequacy, let me assure you of the following:
a) My Godzilla-sized member is firing with all cylinders and I don't hear many complaints (just screams of joy)
b) I don't hate women at all. But I dislike shrill shreiking shrews.
I hope you have a better day. Where should I turn in my homework, teach?
Oscar.
p.s. Lighten up!
p.p.s. Penn in 2004. Ride the baloney!

Sandy,
Disregard the bio...I saw your posting (recap) on another 'page' of this board. Do you really believe that Kane, who, in your opinion, may be the Zodiac, and his good buddy RH, who may also be the Zodiac, have devoted thirty years of their existence to following you?
This sounds like a fascinating... story.
They Call Me 'The Big O',
Oscar.
p.s. Please be careful with that gun!

Tom,

Yep. I like Cane's handwriting better than ALA's and better than Ted K.'s. I didn't find O'Hare's...where should I look on Jake's site?

Realtor

PS: Why are Sandy and Oscar mentioning whether or not Cane was capable of selling real estate? Have I missed some fun-poking?

Down With Dow!
Up With Tao!

R.

Realtor, Oscar wrote that because Kane had brain damage, he couldn't have enough of a brain to commit the Z crimes. I believe that if he was a blubbering idiot, he would not be successful being a Realestate agent (as I am told he is). I know Kane has a IQ of 160 even with the brain damage.This alone could qualify him.Oscar, Kane said he "never" lived in S.F.! Two suspects that I know of, did live in S.F, only one of them I can place in Riverside in 66, Vallejo after that, S.F.in 69. That would be Darlenes first husband.When Kane was asked that question, it was from Las Vegas Pd. pertaining to the Dana Lull killing. The suspected killer was pulled over for weaving in a car on desert road out of vegas.The police officer saw what he thought was a young girl sleeping on the passengers side.The man driving looked like Kane, and at that time had the same kind of car.The officer remembered a bumper sticker (Save the Pup Fish). The driver said he was weaving because he was tired, and was driving home to S.F. The girl was shot in the head. The man who said he is a friend of Canes, may remember this killing, because he lives in Las Vegas now, and perhaps at that time also? I can't E mail him, I would like him to E me if he is still reading this board?

Oscar,when did you speak to Kathleen Johns? If you didn't, how do you know for sure she pointed the finger at anyone other than Kane? I would like to know, I think it is important. What gets me, is how could she guess every detail, including the "scars" on the mans face!Pictures don't lie, what she saw, I have in a color picture of a man Vallejo PD said looked like Kane.I got tired of people thinking the man who was following me was not real,so the next time he followed me I took his picture. I never knew for sure what his name was, until I picked him out of a picture line up at Harvey Hines home.Even then I told Harvey I believed the name was R.H. That was do to a lic. plate I had ran on a car he was driving after he came into my job. With VPD, and Harvey telling me the face is that of Kane, it must be him! He has never said to me he is the Zodiac, he only said: its me. I told him hi me , this is me! He has called Darlenes sister and said: This is Zodiac.The voice is the same we both have it recorded.He sounds like he is reading slowly,very flat,but enunciating every word.The one word that sounded like a bit of a Brooklyn accent was (Dare) instead of there.

Sandy: Where is he now? And where was he in December 1996?

Realtor

Sandy,
Please excuse my tardyness, but I have been busy with other matters. first, let me clarify a few things that you make mention of in your previous two postings:
1) I did not say that Kane was not capable of committing the Zodiac crimes because of severe head trauma, I said he MAY not have been capable (and he is still a weak suspect at best).
2) I have never spoken to Kathleen Johns, as I'm sure you already know. I am referring you however to a document I have here which states that Johns was interviewed by author Howard Davis, and a private investigator, on January 1, 1998 (Nice way to start your year, eh?). According to the author of this article, Johns got very freaked out when she saw photographs of Manson family member Bruce Davis. The author goes on to state, "Every law enforcement person I have shared this story with has said it was as close to a positive identification as anyone could get. Johns never reacted to any other photograph presented to her before." Hmmm. Interesting.
This simply points out that Johns has a suspect memory, and that she has, according to this source, pointed the finger, or strongly hinted that someone other than Kane was the bandit on the road on March 22, 1970( Unfortunately, the author's name is cut off for some reason, but I would be more than happy to send you a copy of this). Now, I don't know much about Howard Davis, but I really didn't buy into the whole Zodaic/Manson connection when I read the book, and I still don't. I won't go into those reasons because they are, for this purpose, irrelevant. I don't know how credible this source is, but it does appear from a close reading that the author of the article did meet with Johns.
3) You state that Darlene's sister recorded Kane saying,"This is Zodiac." You then say that "the voice is the same we both have it recorded (sic)." Well, to what are you comparing this tape of Kane's voice? As far as I know- and I may be wrong- there is no existing tape of Zodiac's voice, as was pointed out by one of our resident experts on this board (Tom, Jake, Ed..?). Also, how do you know that the voice Darlene's sister heard was that of Kane's? Were either of you there when he allegedly placed the call? Are either of you voice pattern recognition experts?
Anyway, I just thought you might like to know about the Johns 'thing'. Take care.
Oscar.
p.s. Well...you know by now!

Please don't vote for BUSH and DICK.

I had tapes from past phone calls, at that time I didn't know Pam. One day she made a three way phone call to a T.V. show, she asked them to replay a interview they had by phone with Kane for her again. I then recorded it to compare to the other phone calls I had. No I am not a voice expert,but this guys voice is like no other I have ever heard.The man I refer to as R.H. looks like Bruce Davis, and when Kane shaves his head he also looks like Davis, so I can understand why Kathleen could connect the two. When I see Kane, I have to pull out his picture to be sure it is not just someone who looks like him.I was once with my niece, we went to lunch, Kane was sitting at a table behind her. I said its him! she looked back and said no, not even close! I pulled out his picture to refresh her memory,she looked again and said : Oh my god, it is him! The first time he came into my job I thought he was 6ft tall, then when we stood eye to eye he was very short.Even I look much taller from a distance,I am only 5ft1in.Confusion has saved him from getting caught, and he rely's on it.

I'm voting for Bush and Dick. Sorry about that, old boy.

Yes, I already voted for Bush and Dick. And I'm not sorry.

I wouldn't vote for Bush if he was given a brain transplant in order to make him almost as intelligent as a stump. As for Dick, and I DO mean Dick Cheney, remember the old saying "Dick Cheney before he dicks you."

Don't forget to vote.

Oscar,I am sorry if I didn't make myself clear. When Pam received calls from her stalker he would say: this is the Zodiac. When I recorded the man who was bothering me, I compared it to a tape recording that Pam had a tv show play for her,of Kane. Kane never told me he is Zodiac.The voice from the tv show is the same voice as the man who calls me.

Sandy,
Thank you for the clarification, but i would be interested in hearing what you think about the other points I raise in my previous posting. Thanks.
Oscar.
p.s. Penn in 2004. Eat the turd!
p.p.s. To Hurley and Doug: Don't say I didn't warn you about Bush. USA uber alles!

Gregorypraxass,
Your comments concerning Bush have reaffirmed my faith in you; I thought for sure that you were some republican social orphan. Bless you, son.
Oscar.
p.s. Were was Bush during the Zodiac era? Hmmm...

I think he got booked by a policeman for driving drunk through Vallejo,oeps!

They do compare Al Gore's writing's to that of Ted Kaczynski. And Al Gore is an Aries...CARDINAL SIGN!!

Oscar,

At least we on agree on George DUH-bya Bush. The depth of his stupidity is absolutely terrifying. He's convinced that his message has "resignated" with voters...

I wasn't a fan of Poppy Bush, his lies about his CIA career, Watergate complicities, or Reagan-era crimes. As far as I am concerned, the whole family is dangerous, and the last thing I would ever want is a restoration of the Bush presidency of 1988-1992, which is exactly what I believe a Bush Junior Presidency would be. Just my rants on that matter...

I think a good slogan for Penn's work would be "Takes a licking and keeps on missing."

Gregorypraxas,
Yes, son, we do agree on something. However, I think it is sufficient to say, especially in light of the fact that Clinton enjoyed a rousing game of 'hide the tiparillo' with a certain overfed intern,'no more Bush in the White House!
Penn made me a firm believer in the principals of social darwinism.
Oscar.
p.s. Penn in 2004! Ride the colostomy bag!
p.p.s Does the radian go through Florida? Hmmm...

Check out the Darwin Awards for the best true stories in social darwinism... Official Darwin Awards.