Ted Kaczynski - Bruce Davis
Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Other Suspects: Ted Kaczynski - Bruce Davis
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 01:46 pm:|
I interviewed Kathleen Johns and she told me that Zodiac or the man who abducted her,was no taller than 5'9" tops! Of course,Mageau said his attacker was "SHORT" or about 5'8.Back to Johns.How could TK be a "dead ringer" for the man that Kathleen saw for some two hours, if the man was 'no taller' than 5'9"?Did Ted have a beard in 1970?Just curious.This is an exploration of your thinking/research NOT an attack on your suspect who is a prominent prospect as he relates to the Z crimes.It's an unsolved case ,so all possibilities are to be researched.It just startled me when you said "dead ringer"as TK was over six feet or is that a wrong assement?My guy does fit,even down to the pock marks on his chin,including height, weight,color of hair, and Johns telling the detective and I, on tape, that Davis appeared to look very much like the man(first time and after seeing dozens of other mug shots of suspects,that she saw someone that looked like the perp besides Kane;and we played a tape of Davis speaking and by voice concept she could not rule him out!) who was driving that fateful night-but it doesn't MAKE him the driver!This is what we need to know -more about your guy in this regard from an expert on him ,namely,you!Thanks.I recycle through a lot of suspects periodically as it's a good thing to do.My guy was into Norse mythology too,big time!And the BLACK led SLA would have had 'special' significance to a hardcore Family member like Davis!After all, CM had 'predicted' that this kind of thing SLA/black public crimes,etc. would start sooner or later!I think(big deal!) the writer thought that it WAS now really transpiring and with the Zebra crime by black Muslims that triggered Z's silence in '74 we really have an interesting connect'.So we all have are points and this is another factor that makes the Z case so exciting for all of us!Tell everyone how to get your book good sir.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (207.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 22.214.171.124) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 03:33 pm:|
Howard, Ted is 5'9" and weighed, based on my reckoning, between 160 and 180 lbs.
in 1969. He wore his hair in a crew-cut, usually with a small pompadour combed to one
side, and sometimes almost (not quite) buzzed, depending, I suppose, on his humor. He
didn't wear a beard until he had been in Montana for some time. I don't know if he has
acne scars--his brother certainly does. The most prominent part of his facial features is
his very heavy jaw.
I don't think Ted was "into" Norse mythology in the sense that he was consumed by it. But he used a runic symbol (Yggdrasil) in connection with one of the Unabomber crimes, in the form of a graffito on the wall of a building at Cal State, Sacramento. (This is, by the way, a very clear connection with Zodiac--graffiti in conjunction with a crime, consisting of a device that's so much like Zodiac's crosshair circle that all you have to do is move the lines 15 degrees up and you're there!).
You can get details on ordering a copy of "Dr. Zodiac," at my web page, http://home.att.net/~mignarda. I have to admit that it's somewhat dated, in light of the revelations about both Kaczynski and Zodiac that have emerged since 1998. But I think it's still a good buy, nonetheless. At $11.99, how can you lose? :-)
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-wm074.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 07:49 pm:|
Can you think of any reason wht TK would have assorted kids clothing in his "car full of junk"? To me, this makes the Manson Family come to mind, what with their various commune kiddies, I believe they also had several friends in Modesto, at least a reason to be there. I can't quite see why TK would be roving around that area. Who knows though.
Thanks for the book info., I'll probably be owner #39.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (53.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 11:13 pm:|
Sylvie, I can't imagine why TK would have had kids' clothes in his car. Maybe a robbed
a Goodwill box? So far as the rest of the junk is concerned, Ted was known in college as a
sloppy housekeeper; at one point he had to be given a mandate to clean up. One newspaper
article stated, "... at night, the sound of his trombone would drift through the
suite, emanating from behind the shut door of his room. Kaczynski left unfinished cartons
of milk and old sandwiches under the trash, and the room took on a smell."
And of course, if this was Kaczynski, he would have been living out of his car at the time. He had a habit of doing that; making long trips via car and camping out, rather than staying at motels.
|By Esau (Esau) (12-246-187-137.client.attbi.com - 184.108.40.206) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:30 am:|
I wouldn't put too much stock in Kathleen's height estimate. The only times she saw him when he wasn't sitting down was when he was "fixing" her tire and when she was running/hiding from him..........
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:51 am:|
According to what she told me Johns saw Z when he walked over to her car to examine and "fix" the tire 1.He then walked back to her to tell her it was repaired 2.She also saw him walk back to his car 3.She then drove forward and the wheel came off and the man stopped backed up (this is very much like the Robin Graham case in '70)and got out of his car and walked over to her again in full view of her lights 4.They both get into his car 5.She remembers her lights are on and the keys are still in her car, so Z gets out and she sees him again at full height 6.Johns then sees him come back to his car 7.Thats seven times at full height according to KJ!And finally,she saw him as he was chasing her(she got the head start because she told him that she was "going to be sick" and he, no doubt, thought of her pregnancy and didn't want her to expectorate in his car and that she was leaving the car to be sick- not so much that it was an escape per se)or when he played the light over the field where she and her baby were hiding ;so we have a big eight!She told me- based on these observations ,Z was no taller than 5'9" max.
|By Esau (Esau) (12-246-187-137.client.attbi.com - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:47 pm:|
Good point Howard but wouldn't a defense attorney argue that she was sitting, lying or running away from him every time she saw him standing? My point is that an estimate of height in these instances are probably not going to be very reliable...........
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw2.ciw.edu - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 10:43 pm:|
You can get details on ordering a copy of "Dr. Zodiac," at my web page,
http://home.att.net/~mignarda. I have to admit that it's somewhat dated, in light of the
revelations about both Kaczynski and Zodiac that have emerged since 1998. But I think it's
still a good buy, nonetheless. At $11.99, how can you lose? :-)
Doug, 2 questions: 1.) Would you perhaps be able, at some point in the future to post on your website a supplement to the CD, which explains how new (post 1998) evidence come to light impacts on the TK=Z theory?
2.) If I make a post to zodiackiller.com which proves Ted is Zodiac, do I get a free copy? Autographed? :-)
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (193.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:13 pm:|
Obiwan, I'll eventually get around to it, I'm sure, but my time has been occupied with
a combination of family matters and keeping up with the technical demands of a new career
I assumed a few years ago. However, most of the new evidence is in the form of (1) the
Sally Johnson psychological report on Kaczynski and (2) the book "Unabomber" by
Chris Waites and Dave Shors, both of which are readily available to the public.
If I had been more patient (as I usually am) I would have waited a year or so before releasing "Dr. Zodiac." Post-1998 we had a far better picture of Kaczynski from a psychological perspective, and by that time I think (at least among reasonable people) the image of Ted as a principled anti-technology warrier was wearing off. The real kicker was the contemplated sex-change operation and in 1966 and the admission that the shame of that event had precipitated his desire to kill.
There are also linguistic comparisons and studies (at my website) that aren't included in the book.
I've been contemplating a follow-up book to "Dr. Zodiac," that looks at the connection more in terms of a psychological/criminal signature contrast rather than an attempt to link the two via circumstantial evidence. However, I've first got to convince myself that the time spent would be worth my while. I hate writing books that no one reads. I used to be a fairly prolific writer. But after years of failure to get my foot into a publisher's door I've finally come to a good realization of what the term "quixotic," means.
Now, if you want an autographed copy, you don't have to go so far as to prove anything. Just send $11.99 and accompany it with a note that says you want an autograph. Who knows, these things could become collectors' items someday!
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-94.linkline.com - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 12:14 am:|
You could do what I did and that is provide a paper based suppliment on the BASIC most up to date and important info you acquired on TK.The problem with that is I have gotten so much new info and discoveries that supplement could now be another book!I am sure you would have the same situation!I decided to just leave the suppliment as it is -which is several pages;put a few new discoveries on my site and later,do a book revision.You are aware about the Stanford grad doing a book on TK?He did, as you probably know,an article for Alantic Monthly which was pretty deep and informative.
|By Linda (Linda) (207-172-73-55.s55.tnt1.fdk.md.dialup.rcn.com - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 12:16 am:|
Alright, Doug! I, too, am waiting for an upate! You have a ton of material out there
just waiting for use in your updated version of "Dr. Zodiac!"
Don't give up! You've worked so hard in putting together this very credible suspect! Get that update together! I know you can get a publisher....
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (159.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 12:26 pm:|
Howard and Linda, I'll probably be making a decision within the next month as to whether I want to take the time to work on some kind of update or a new project altogether. It isn't want of enthusiasm, but rather, lack of time that's tied me down.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 03:36 pm:|
I had/have the same problem;but you can do jotting -then just write them out as new discoveries on your guy and have it typed by someone.Bullet points are great and then have a bibliography ready if someone needs to find the source.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (20.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 03:55 pm:|
Thanks for the advice, Howard. Typing is no problem for me--I used to be a
professional typesetter before the PC revolution drove me out of the business. I can still
type well over 100 wpm with amazing accuracy.
Believe it or not, "jotting," is where I have a problem. Not to worry, though. I keep good mental notes.
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw2.ciw.edu - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 03:36 pm:|
Douglas, I realize you may have discussed this before, but, could you address the
following: It seems to me that the possiblilty that D. Ferrin knew her killer is the
strongest piece of evidence AGAINST Kaczynski being Zodiac.
In Greysmith this possiblility is played up in order to tout his theory that Ms. Ferrin was about to turn in Z. just before she was killed. While much of this may be Graysmith's hype what do you say about this:
Apperently someone called 3 of Ms. Ferrin's relatives after the crime and made breathing/wind sounds. (p.34 paperback) It seems very unlikely to me, if TK were the killer, that he could have known the names of these relatives (or even of Darlene Ferrin) in order to look them up in the phone book and call.
If anyone else on the board can confirm these phone calls really took place, I respectfully ask for your help. Presumably telephone records could have (should have) been checked, especially those from Vallejo phone booths
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (159.philadelphia06rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 06:52 pm:|
Obiwan, I think the evidence points fairly conclusively toward the idea that Ferrin
was a random victim, Graysmith's scenario notwithstanding. In fact, a good deal of that
scenario has been shown to have been either exaggerated or false, not least by the police
and newspaper records relating Mageau's account of the attack. If one assumes that Ferrin
was murdered for practical reasons, one is left to wonder why the murder was followed by a
taunting phone call, and later a series of letters to the press.
Assuming arguendo that those three phone calls actually were placed, one has to look carefully at the situation leading to Ferrin's death. She and Mageau were obviously involved in some kind of intrigue, most probably an intrigue that did not involve sex, inasmuch as Mageau was wearing three pairs of pants and Ferrin a jumpsuit at the time of the assault. That intrigue might very well have comprised a planned assignation with a third party, and that individual might very well have tried to contact Darlene later on that night, not wanting (for whatever reason) to speak with anyone else. I don't have the Graysmith book at hand, but if memory serves, Dean Ferrin, or some other relative of Darlene's remarked that the caller was probably one of Darlene's "goofy friends."
What might have been the true nature of the intrigue? I'm inclined to think it was drugs, especially in light of the party that was planned at the Ferrins' house. It's been pointed out that neither victim had sufficient money to pay for a drug transaction, but if I'm not mistaken, such deals aren't always cash and carry.
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw2.ciw.edu - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 07:45 pm:|
Ok, thanks. That explanation of the phone calls is plausable, at least. (You agree
that TK probably could not have made those calls) The "breathing sounds"
frighteningly described in Graysmith could have been nothing more than someone holding the
reciever to close, perhaps.
According to Graysmith, the calls were recieved by Bill Leigh (Dean having gone to look for D.), Dean's parents (would Ms. Ferrin have been expected there?) and Dean's brother, who received a "crank call" (not necessarily just breathing..).
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (173.philadelphia03rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 08:40 pm:|
I think it would have been quite a long shot for TK to have made any such calls. Not that he wasn't up to making calls. As the Unabomber two calls were ascribed to him; one a threat and one a warning. The latter, made in Sacramento a day before the Murray bomb, was placed to the number 440-5111, which was only one digit removed (440-1111) from the Sacramento Sheriff's office--shades of you-know-who!
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p31.as1.clonmel1.eircom.net - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 10:42 am:|
I thought it better to bring my reply over to this thread.(Tk diary issue).Firstly, thank you for taking the time to put me straight on that issue.Apart from being mistaken on when exactly TK began to keep records,one of the reasons I did mention it was because I believe there is evidence to suggest that Zodiac did
also keep records.His letters seem to be numbered
and I believe he does give clues that relate back to previous letters.It therefore seems likely that he at least kept copies of his letters and ciphers up to the time he "finished".Of course there is nothing to suggest that he did not get rid of everything at that stage.
You did elaborate on the original question to say that Kaczynski began to form his "new view" as early as 71 and that this was a turning point of sorts.Yet there are communications from Zodiac up to 74 and possibly 78(even though I think that one a forgery).
So there was a period where the "two" seem to overlap for a significant period.Do you find that consistent with your view?.There is also the question of how both killed or indeed,how TK changed form a person who killed at close quarters to someone who planted bombs to kill.I would like to hear your analysis of these "changes".
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (204.philadelphia06rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 05:07 pm:|
Lapumo, Kaczynski's handwritten records show that he got rid of quite a bit of stuff.
for his classification of things based on their degree of incrimination.
I don't think there was actually much overlap between '71 and '74. Kaczynski deliberately isolated himself from society and found something to occupy his time. Notice that in the '74 letter Zodiac doesn't identify himself as Zodiac, either in the greeting or the closing. This suggests to me that by that time he was fairly well finished with the Zodiac persona. Note also the allusion to exorcism, which might be taken to imply a symbolic exorcism of his own inner demons.
As to your last question, assume arguendo that Kaczynski committed the Zodiac crimes. The one element of the Zodiac case that really has muddied he waters is the allusion to Z as a "serial killer." Actually, that term is used in two senses, (1) to indicate someone of any motivation who commits a "series" of killings and, more notably, (2) to indicate a sociopathic, sexually sadistic murderer. In my opinion, Zodiac was a serial killer only in the first sense. Had he been a killer in the second sense, we might rightly say that his mode of killing, being essential to the psychological/emotional gratification he received from murder, formed an element of his signature that he would have found difficult, if not impossible, to change.
Killing, for Zodiac, was only ancillary to the gratification he received from a combination of striking out against a class of people he both envied and hated, and the desire to achieve publicity. He doesn't really appear to care exactly how he killed, so long as he killed. So it's not a stretch, in my opinion, to postulate that Kaczynski, suffering from the emotional duress that we know he suffered from during that time, might have lashed out with the only weapons he had on hand, i.e., guns and knives. Knowing the risks inherent in that kind of encounter--Zodiac essentially bungled all but his first murder--he might well have decided later that bombing was a safer way to go, and probably more effective in targeting the specific individuals he was after. Not that bombing was entirely satisfactory to Kaczynski--we have at least one example of him lamenting the necessity to kill in a manner that was safe. "When I see a motorcyclist tearing up the mountain meadows," Kaczynski wrote, "instead of fretting about how I can get revenge on him safely, I just want to watch the bullet rip through his flesh and I want to kick him in the face while he is dying."
Moreover, there's fairly good evidence--almost positive evidence, I'd say--that Kaczynski ambushed, shot and maimed a miner ca. 1980, and the Sally Johnson psychological report details his self-aborted attempt to mutilate with a knife the face of a woman who had spurned him.
|By Zander Kite (Zk) (gsa-24-197-136-23.sc.charter.com - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:46 pm:|
I have some interesting connections with Kaczynski and the 1966 desktop poem, in case they haven't already been pointed out. They are: (Z)"Oh well, it was red anyway."(Z): (K)"Well, never mind that stupid episode anyway."(K) >>AND>> (Z)"She won't die this time someone ll find her. JUST WAIT TILL next time." (K)..as I felt myself growing angry, I calmed myself by thinking- JUST WAIT TILL this summer! Then I'll kill!."(K) I find this to be an amazing Z/FC connection.
|By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-200.s200.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:26 am:|
Zander: Very interesting! I have tried to avoid considering the Bates murder to be a Zodiac-connected crime when assessing or attributing things positively known to Zodiac; however, with this stylistic similarity to known TK writings, I'm beginning to believe that the Bates murder was, indeed, committed by the Z. GREAT FIND! Doug...another writing style comparison to add to your website!
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (67.philadelphia05rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 07:39 am:|
Obiwan made an interesting suggestion to me a few months ago. He was wondering whether any math conferences or symposia had been sponsored by any of the U.Cal. branches around the time of the Riverside killing. If so, he might very well have attended them.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-73.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 09:08 am:|
A question here just to clarify the position of both of these suspects with respect to
It has been reported that both of these suspects have been investigated and cleared by the FBI.
Can I ask if that is their official position?
Regardless of whether that position is right or worng,or any details the refuse to divulge is it actually the case that they have done so.
Or is is a case of these just being reports and their official comment is "no comment"?
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-2718.linkline.com - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 02:44 pm:|
I understand it was CII and BDs records are sealed at that same organizion as per an Archivist and detective(he said"they have Davis buried deep")with connections there.
I have no awarness of any FBI statement relative to BD.The FBI was searching for BD when he was on the run,but that's it as far as I know.I was denied those reports-even though Davis is in prison for two'87s with a life sentence.
Dave Peterson,through his FBI contact,tried to have DNA examined on BD relative to the Z case,but his guy was "blocked at the top"according to Peterson.My BD letters weren't returned for several months.
There is a secret report that was done on BD by the INS.
That's about all I have as to government involvment.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p51-176.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 03:24 pm:|
Thanks Howard,it was only a case of clarifying things in my own mind.I know I did read somewhere that Davis was investigated briefly by the FBI and excluded.Of course it was somewhere on the web and that may have been false. I'll try to dig it out again and post.