Kaczynski: Patrik article in Union College Magazine


Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Other Suspects: Kaczynski: Patrik article in Union College Magazine

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (192.philadelphia05rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.25.192) on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 04:31 pm:

Here's a link to an old but hitherto-unknown interview of Linda Patrik (David Kaczynski's wife; the woman who initially suspected Ted of the Unabomber crimes). http://www.union.edu/N/DS/s.php?s=1622

Two quotes are especially illuminating. Patrik writes "...sometime in the spring or early summer of 1991 Ted became furious with his mother again, as he had many times in the past. He insisted that she not write to him again, and these letters included fairly cruel and vicious attacks. He blamed her for his lack of sociability and for his lack of relationships with women. He blamed her for pushing him academically; he blamed her for everything."

She continues, "One of the most frightening letters for me -- the one that convinced me that we needed a psychiatric opinion -- was about two women. They were women that Ted knew from a distance and would have liked to date. The way that he described them was strange. So I was worried and wanted a professional opinion.... David was particularly concerned that his brother was so paranoid that if Ted were innocent, anyone showing up on his doorstep, especially an FBI agent, would be in danger. David was worried that his brother might either shoot himself or shoot the person who showed up ...."

That must have been one bizarre letter describing the two women if it could have caused Patrik, who had never seen Ted, to seek a psychiatric opinion.
She goes on to state that the letter precipitated her and David's decision to see about the feasibility of having Ted involuntarily committed.
Note, too, their concern about Ted shooting someone. Pardon me, but I thought he wasn't the shooting type.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (pool-141-154-19-158.bos.east.verizon.net - 141.154.19.158) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 06:34 am:

"David was particularly concerned that his brother was so paranoid that if Ted were innocent, anyone showing up on his doorstep, especially an FBI agent, would be in danger. David was worried that his brother might either shoot himself or shoot the person who showed up ...."

"Pardon me, but I thought he wasn't the shooting type."

He isn't, for all we know. Paranoia tends to run in families, and you are citing Linda's take on David's fears, not Ted's actual actions.

Do we have the letter she was referring to?

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (78.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.16.78) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 09:51 am:

Peter, I think you're forgetting the shooting incident ascribed to Ted in which a miner was shot from a distance with a 30-30 rifle. This wasn't pursued by law enforcement because the statute of limitations had expired, but after the event, Ted's 30-30 disappeared and has yet to be found.

You may also be forgetting Ted's homemade .22 pistol which he intended to use as a murder weapon.

Then there are the journal entries in which Ted comes within a whisker of shooting someone infringing on his turf, only to back off because the incident was happening too close to home.

Ted was most definitely a shooter.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (pool-141-154-20-166.bos.east.verizon.net - 141.154.20.166) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 02:03 pm:

"Ascribed", "Intended", "Journal entries" a shooter do not make, much less a stalker/killer. Far be it from me to defend the guy, but the kind of territorial/defensive behavior you suggest, even if realized, is a far cry from what we see at LHR, BRS and PH. You're describing a good part of the population of Idaho and Montana.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (57.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.31.57) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 03:38 pm:

Right, Peter. Only it's the same guy who vowed to begin killing when he humiliated himself in 1966 over a sex change operation--among other things. A slightly different scenario than the typical territorial/defensive sort, if I'm not mistaken.

By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw2.ciw.edu - 192.70.249.40) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 08:42 pm:

Doug, it would sure be interesting to see those letters TK wrote to his mother regarding his resentment over his unsuccessful lovelife (ie "brush-offs") as pertains to motivation for attacks on couples. I suppose FOIA request would be hopeless?

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (143.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.17.143) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 01:18 am:

Obiwan, I've never had any success with FOIA. They always couch their denials in terms of Privacy Act considerations. However, I've been wondering if Mrs. Kaczynski (Linda Patrik) would be approachable.

I really would love to know what he said about those two women that made her want to have him committed!

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (143.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.17.143) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 01:24 am:

Actually, on second thought, I think I can take a stab at it. Ted hated Linda Patrik because she represented his brother's success; something he had never achieved. When they were married he wrote to David, "I can pretty well guess who the dominant member of that couple is going to be. It's just disgusting. Let me know your neck size - I'd like to get you a dog collar next Christmas."
Ted's observations about the two women probably related back to Patrik in a highly uncomplimentary (and disturbing) way. She referred to this in the interview as "frightening," so I imagine some kind of violence and/or vendetta was implied.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (pool-141-154-17-239.bos.east.verizon.net - 141.154.17.239) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 08:22 am:

Doug:

Also correct, but look at the scenario he actually carried out: remote bombings framed in the anti-tchnology campaign. his acting out of the psychosexual dynamic was all in this mode. All of the shooting scenarios on the other hand were reactive, and in the territorial defense vein. Even then, he apparently eschewed any face-to-face confrontation. As you noted, the miner was a distance shot, and the journal entry indicates he backed off precisely beacause it was literally too close to home.

Contrast this with even the most impersonal of Z'z attacks, which were all face-to-face. Z'z most TK-like scenarios were the ones never carried out, and TK's most Z-like scenarios likewise.

So, yeah, on some abstract level, I guess you could say "TK was a shooter", but but I don't think he ever blew anyone's brains all over a cab.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (182.philadelphia-18-19rs.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.7.182) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 04:45 pm:

Peter, when you say that "his acting out of the psychosexual dynamic was all in this mode" I disagree. By that time he had developed his anti-technology worldview and he was addressing a different type of discontent, namely, his failure to achieve career success and recognition. His victims during that time frame all represented successful people, mostly in the technological fields, but also in business; people whom he referred to contemptuously as "bigshots."

Kaczynski by all accounts wasn't a man who feared face-to-face confrontation. He didn't like social situations. There are recorded instances of him challenging people who infringed on his privacy; screaming and hurling profanities and insults. The journal entries also show how frustrated he was at being constrained to modify his methods to avoid capture. For example, he writes, "When I see a motorcyclist tearing up the mountain meadows, instead of fretting about how I can get revenge on him safely, I just want to watch the bullet rip through his flesh and I want to kick him in the face while he is dying." I agree that his use of bombing as a methodology puts one in the "minus" column. However, given the numerous and cogent marks in the "plus" column I don't think it unreasonable or illogical to assume that such a person would change his methodology to accommodate the fear of being apprehended.

I think you have to stretch if you want to refer to Zodiac's attacks as "face-to-face." They were sneaky, blitz-style attacks that left his victims little time to react. From what I know about Kaczynski there is no doubt in my mind that he'd be capable of carrying out such an attack. Whether he ever blew anyone's brains all over a cab is impossible to say. But he wasn't at all squeamish about blood and brains, nor did he have any qualms about killing. Consequently I'm inclined to think it very possible.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (pool-141-154-18-244.bos.east.verizon.net - 141.154.18.244) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 06:37 am:

Doug;

To be more specific: the incidents in which it known that TK actually took violent action were all remote bombings. He may have had thoughts, impulses and even played out scenarios in his mind such as shooting the biker, but as far as we know, he never took such actions. "Modify" his methods implies that at one time he had different ones. "Control" his impulses, maybe, but that's a very different thing. I think any psychologist will tell you that actual behavior and urges have very distinct meanings.

He may not have feared confrontation, but he sure didn't seek it. Fact remains, all of TKs confrontations you cite were defensive: situations he resisted, not those he sought out. The ones he sought out were all remote. Even the shooting of the miner if it was him.

As for Z'z confrontations. Blitz-style some may have been, but to call them face-to-face is literally true in all cases. How is this a stretch? Even at at BRS and probably at LHR we have him shining a light in his victims' faces. Head shots at point-blank range. At BRS we have him taking the time to return to the car for four additional shots at close range. At LB we have an extended conversation before stabbings. It doesn't get any more mano a mano than that. And at PH we have him hailing a cab and another point-blank or contact head shot. In all his supposed shooting scenarios you have cited, Ted never suggests anything approaching this level of victim contact.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.189.171) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 08:18 am:

Doug, you wrote about a "shooting incident ascribed to Ted in which a miner was shot from a distance with a 30-30 rifle. This wasn't pursued by law enforcement because the statute of limitations had expired . . ."

Pardon my ignorance on this, but could you please tell me some more about this incident? Did the miner live or die? Also, the statute of limitations expired? On attempted murder/murder? Also, how was TK implicated in the matter and when? Before his incarceration or after?

"Kaczynski by all accounts wasn't a man who feared face-to-face confrontation."

Are you saying that he was the kind of person who would readily fight someone who posed a physical threat? Or are you saying that, instead of waiting for trouble to find him, TK was the kind of fella who'd deliberately go looking for it? Or am I missing the mark here entirely?

"I think you have to stretch if you want to refer to Zodiac's attacks as 'face-to-face.'"

Including Lake Berryessa? Sure, Zodiac wore a hood and all, but I'd still characterize the confrontation at LB as "face-to-face." Or, was the hood needed because it was the only way that he (TK) could cope with the attack psychologically?

Peter, you wrote, "In all [TK's] supposed shooting scenarios [Doug has] cited, Ted never suggests anything approaching this level of victim contact."

I agree. Talk about a change in methodology! This, in my opinion, is one of the strongest arguments for TK not being the Z. The Unabomber used an "outside in" methodology to attack people. His victims were specifically targeted and "confronted" from a distance: exactly the opposite of the Zodiac, who used an "inside out" method of attack. Zodiac trolled specific "target areas" and waited for the right opportunity to attack. In other words, his victims were random but his target areas were not: he simply had to have been familiar with both LHR and BRS. I'm convinced that there is simply no way that Zodiac could have pulled off those three murders without prior knowledge of the two areas. If the Zodiac wasn't ALA, it must have been somebody else who lived in Vallejo at the time.

Excellent discussion fellas!

Scott

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (65.philadelphia05rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.24.65) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 09:42 pm:

Peter, there's nothing to suggest that Zodiac desired confrontation or had any desire to be with his victims any longer than necessary. What he wanted was to despatch them. That was the important thing. I think you're looking at Zodiac as a classical sexual-sadist; what I call a "recreational" killer. For that type of killer, murder is usually only the icing on the cake; it's the prolonged and intimate contact with the victim that gets him off. Zodiac doesn't belong to that class. He's clearly a disaffected killer; very much like the guy who walks into a McDonald's and starts shooting. For the recreational killer the means by which he carries out the crime is important in bringing about the result he wants, which is why it's commonly said that this type is not likely to change the way he perpetrates his acts. Zodiac doesn't have that kind of problem. Based on what we see, he wants two things: (1) vendetta against a particular class of people; and (2) the publicity engendered by the killings. We would expect those motives to manifest themselves in any future killings. But he wouldn't lose anything emotionally or psychologically by changing the way he works.

If you look closely at the most hands-on of the Zodiac murders, i.e., Berryessa, you find that the confrontation occurred for the purpose of disarming the victims' apprehensions so they could be persuaded to tie one another up. How long did the actual stabbing take? Based on Hartnell's account, I don't think it could have lasted longer than a minute, if that. Did he look them in the face; place his hands on them; torture them; rape them; abuse their bodies when the act was at an end? Did he even so much as curse at them? Two weeks later he's back to shooting some poor stiff in the head; probably from behind. Shortly after that he's "progressed" to the point where his most fearsome transgression is the idle threat, made anonymously to the media.

Suppose, then, for the sake of argument, that this is the work of Kaczynski. If he backs off from killing for whatever reason (preoccupation with a new life; fear of being apprehended, based on the close encounter with police) then resumes it nine years later, what does he lose by employing a safer methodology? He still gets his vengeance, and he still gets his notoriety. If he were a sexual sadist, things would be different; he'd not be able to get his jollies, and the whole exercise would prove pointless after all. But sexual sadism isn't the game here.

So while I'm obliged to agree that there's nothing to show Kaczynski committing murder (or attempted murder) in a "confrontational" way, I don't really think that's significant, even considering the fact that, based on what we know of him, he was fully capable of doing it.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (65.philadelphia05rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.24.65) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 10:08 pm:

Pardon my ignorance on this, but could you please tell me some more about this incident? Did the miner live or die? Also, the statute of limitations expired? On attempted murder/murder? Also, how was TK implicated in the matter and when? Before his incarceration or after?

Scott, the incident was related by Chris Waits in his book "Unabomber: The Secret Life of Ted Kaczynski." Waits was Kaczynski's Montana neighbor; he owned a large tract of land upon which he allowed Ted to hunt and camp and worked closely with the FBI; so much so that he was allowed access to Kaczynski-related materials that otherwise would never have been made public. The incident occurred several miles from Kaczynski's cabin and fortunately for the miner he wasn't killed, but severely wounded. The incident happened ca. 1981 and the statute of limitations had expired by the time Kaczynski was captured. There's no doubt that Kaczynski owned a 30-30 rifle because he documented it in his journals; wrote about killing a farmer's cow with it, and buried caches of ammunition for it that were located and dug up by the FBI. The rifle has never been found. Because the victim was a miner, because the journals described several similar incidents that weren't carried out for fear of detection and due to the circumstances of the 30-30 rifle, Kaczynski was strongly suspected.

Are you saying that he was the kind of person who would readily fight someone who posed a physical threat? Or are you saying that, instead of waiting for trouble to find him, TK was the kind of fella who'd deliberately go looking for it? Or am I missing the mark here entirely?

Scott I doubt if Kaczynski was the type to initiate trouble just for the sake of trouble. But when something ticked him off, he usually responded by getting his gun and going out to see what the hell was going on. In fact, he committed armed burglary on a number of occasions, which is an especially gutsy thing to do in Montana. The way he's been depicted as a cowardly geek applied only in social situations.

Including Lake Berryessa? Sure, Zodiac wore a hood and all, but I'd still characterize the confrontation at LB as "face-to-face." Or, was the hood needed because it was the only way that he (TK) could cope with the attack psychologically?

See my remarks to Peter, above. You could be right about the hood. The consensus seems to be that he intended to kill both victims, so why go to the trouble of concealing his face, unless that was part of the scenario? Hartnell mentioned the reticent way in which he talked, and also the fact that he seemed highly nervous.

I'm convinced that there is simply no way that Zodiac could have pulled off those three murders without prior knowledge of the two areas. If the Zodiac wasn't ALA, it must have been somebody else who lived in Vallejo at the time.

I'd just observe that ALA has no connection to any murder at all, confrontational or otherwise.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.189.171) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 07:56 am:

"The incident happened ca. 1981 and the statute of limitations had expired by the time Kaczynski was captured."

Again, what is the statute of limitations on attempted murder?

"I'd just observe that ALA has no connection to any murder at all, confrontational or otherwise."

Pardon me; I didn't know you had on omniscient view of space and time. Why don't you use it to figure out if TK can even be placed in California on the fourth and fifth of July 1969?

By Zander Kite (Zk) (dialup-65.57.52.150.dial1.nashville1.level3.net - 65.57.52.150) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 11:11 am:

I know that Kaczynski wasn't exactly working a fast food job, but if his last day was June 30, 1969, wouldn't he be hanging around a little after that in order to collect his last check?

By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw2.ciw.edu - 192.70.249.40) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 01:46 pm:

Doug, could you elaborate on TK's armed robberies?

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (82.philadelphia04rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.22.82) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 05:26 pm:

Obiwan, they weren't armed robberies but armed burglaries. On several occasions documented in his journals he entered the cabins of people living in his vicinity, committing such acts as smashing out windows with his rifle and undertaking extreme acts of vandalism once inside. In one instance he was actually questioned by the police a short time later, but they left without suspecting him. On a couple of occasions he came within an ace of shooting two or more people, but abandoned the idea because the incident was too close to home. FBI agent Dave Weber related the story, as he had read it in the journals, to Chris Waits:

Dave now told about journal entries that described a hair-raising story of three young motorcycle riders who violated Ted's code of not riding off-road.

As they playfully climbed the steep mountain trails, riding comfortably on top of their noisy two-stroke machines, they didn't have a clue that their young lives were almost snuffed out on that bright summer day.

Ted, hiking nearby, saw them through the trees and was so enraged that he raised his rifle, leveled the sights on the first rider, took aim and prepared to fire. Then he paused momentarily and lamented that one of the riders might escape before he could kill them all.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-201.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 159.134.50.201) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 06:50 am:

Doug,did Kaczynski own handguns?

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (107.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.31.107) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 06:56 am:

Yes, Lapumo, he owned a .22 revolver described by the FBI as an "H&R Inc., U.S.A. Model 930, serial #AE 1935." He also owned a .25 caliber Raven Arms pistol and a homemade .22, which he describes making in his journal and comments that he wishes to use it as a "homicide weapon."

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.96.201) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 10:15 am:

"FBI agent Dave Weber related the story, as he had read it in the journals, to Chris Waits: 'Dave now told about journal entries that described a hair-raising story of three young motorcycle riders who violated Ted's code of not riding off-road.'"

What is that, third or fourth generation hearsay? Fifth? We're expected to believe that but Don Cheney’s incriminating remarks about Allen are challenged tooth and nail? Unbelievable.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (58.philadelphia06rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.26.58) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 10:59 am:

Scott, read the Waits book yourself and judge whether he's credible. And remember, we're talking about Kaczynski, not standing at the urinal furtively comparing zee-zees.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.96.201) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 11:32 am:

"And remember, we're talking about Kaczynski, not standing at the urinal furtively comparing zee-zees."

Christ Doug, considering the number of times you've mentioned that phrase, one begins to wonder what's really going on. I'm sorry for touching such a sore subject, so to speak. If you want my opinion, the first thing you should do is put down the friggin' Freud; I think too much of it is going to your head.

Scott

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (189.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.17.189) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 12:25 pm:

Pardon me, Scott, but when Sylvie first used the expression "big guns, little zee-zee," it tickled my funny bone to the extent that I still haven't been able to stop laughing.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.96.201) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 12:34 pm:

I can only imagine why.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) (dialup-64.158.121.73.dial1.portland1.level3.net - 64.158.121.73) on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 05:50 am:

Utterly fascinating! Discovered the message board of this site only recently and have read nearly everything on Kaczynski. Find him intriguing, especially after reading Dr. Zodiac and others' writings. Ted definitely had the intelligence and cold unemotionality to pull off the Z acts, then disappear. The "call for help" to Belli could be similar to his request to print his manifesto; both potentially gave him away. He has worn many faces. When the Time reporter asked if he feared losing his mind in prison, he responded that he was more concerned that he might adjust!

Remember - it was Jack from Austria who committed some horrible atrocities in California, even accompanying the police (as a reporter) as they cruised the red light district, so he knew where to pick his victims, then immediately he hopped on a plane and was out of the country!

So is anything new on TK?...I've not read every entry lately and so much seems to be happening.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (19.philadelphia05rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.25.19) on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 03:18 pm:

Carolyn, I wish there was something new to report on Kaczynski, but he's been keeping a pretty low profile, no doubt enjoying the celebrity status he's achieved, along with the adulation of his newly found fans, most of whom hail from the left-hand side of the political spectrum.

I had some hopes that I might find a regular publisher for "Dr. Zodiac," but I really don't think that's going to happen. Meanwhile we're all waiting with bated breath to see if SFPD is going to check Ted's genetic fingerprint against the DNA results recently obtained from some of the Zodiac missives.

By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-163.s163.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 208.59.124.163) on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 05:50 am:

Hi, Carolyn: There is no reason why the S.F. Police Department should not be able to put the question as to whether or not the DNA extrapolated from the Zodiac correspondences matches TK's; especially if it is a no-match. That clearly would tend to end the connection... However, they have not done that. In fact, after the Dateline show aired, apparently eliminating the DNA comparison to Allen and two other obscure suspects, I called Inspector Carroll. He would not commit to whether or not they were checking further into TK for comparison purposes and told me only that he could "not comment on an on-going investigation."

Doug Oswell and Mike Rusconi have clearly shown that Kaczynski is an extremely credible suspect with an unsurmountable list of circumstantial evidence pointing to him as the Zodiac (including the fact that he is the ONLY suspect KNOWN to USE Code, Bombs and whose writing style is so comparable to that of Z's in which the same phraseology is used by both, a Forensic Linguist has concluded that some of the know writings were written by the same individual).

If the San Francisco Police Department are still poo-pooing the connection to Ted Kaczyski because they "think" there is no way TK would have committed these type crimes, then they are foolish, narrowminded and really don't want to solve the Z crimes by eliminating suspects (especially credible ones).

Somehow, I don't think this is the case; I do think there is something going on with the TK connection. I could certainly understand if in comparing the two DNA samples, TK could be included, then I would suspect that the S.F. Police Department would want to keep any further investigating they are performing quiet until more conclusive evidence is in relating to the connection of the two and TK's specific whereabouts during the Z crimes and/or missives. I think that's been a hitch-in-the-get all along; having firm evidence that TK was in a certain location during the Z events. There's been no proof provided that he WAS in the vicinity; HOWEVER, there has neither been proof that he WASN'T... And, as we know from the Unabomber events, TK would travel to commit his crimes.

I, for one, am waiting "im" patiently!

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL! Linda!

By Esau (Esau) (12-246-187-137.client.attbi.com - 12.246.187.137) on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 09:16 am:

I find it ironic that TK is celebrated by the extreme left. After all, didn't he specialize in terrorizing academia?

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (129.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.31.129) on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 05:34 pm:

The ironic thing is that TK has always made a point of hating leftists. The leftists, on the other hand, love him for what they perceive to be his environmental leanings, coupled with his scorn for western civilization in general. Kaczynski courts them because he perceives them as being useful to his "cause."

By Carolyn (Carolyn) (dialup-65.58.1.48.dial1.portland1.level3.net - 65.58.1.48) on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 07:01 pm:

Yes, Linda.....It sure makes you wonder! Maybe this has something to do with all the latest fuss over at SFPD?

Now take the handwriting samples under Doug Oswell's Dr. Zodiac site. Compare TK's handwritten court document (1999) with Z's 4-28-70 handwriting sample. Aren't they almost identical?

TK had a certain stamina that could have helped him elude detection, intelligence (a math major could easily have done the radians and codes), and the brute nerve to do such acts -- as well as a weird and sick "sense of humor" and desire to kill. Also he was unnerved by the social/sexual activities of his fellow students/couples. And now he is not talking. Don't you think he would want to gain some points and special privileges by proving he's not Z?! Hmmmh...this feels hot to the touch!

By Carolyn (Carolyn) (dialup-65.58.154.57.dial1.portland1.level3.net - 65.58.154.57) on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 07:39 pm:

Plus: Kaczynski's latest effort is to prevent genetic testing (DNA?). As a college professor he may have known about DNA studies and, in addition to wearing gloves, probably didn't lick his stamps either!

By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-251.s251.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 208.59.124.251) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 06:00 am:

Right you are, Carolyn... However, I'm unsure about his not licking the stamps. If I remember correctly, TK's DNA was found under Unabomber correspondences (from licking stamps and/or envelopes). DOUG...is this accurate?

If this is correct and TK had no insight relating to licking envelopes and/or stamps during the Unabomber era, I doubt he would have had an inkling about licking during the Zodiac era (that is, of course, if he is found to be the Z)...

Now that the Post Office is utilizing adhesive stamps in addition to being able to buy adhesive envelopes, that'll be one less DNA source for those who commit future crimes using correspondence.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (121.philadelphia04rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.22.121) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 07:36 am:

You're right, Linda. Kaczynski left DNA on the stamps used to post the Unabomber correspondence, which indicates that he wasn't aware, or wasn't concerned about, DNA evidence, at least up to a certain point.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) (dialup-65.58.6.56.dial1.portland1.level3.net - 65.58.6.56) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 11:39 am:

DNA on the envelope? That's right...now I remember; that was part of the evidence.

If TK wasn't Z then maybe it's just sour grapes that such a notorious criminal simply drifted away peacefully. But if TK is Z, then I betcha he left some evidence hidden in a bottle somewhere in those hills as evidence to the "old testament" of his life before he "turned over a new leaf" and became the Unabomber!

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (223.philadelphia04rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.23.223) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 04:05 pm:

Carolyn, his diaries indicated that he destroyed a great deal of material that he labeled as incriminating or damaging to his reputation.

By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-44.s44.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 208.59.124.44) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 08:43 pm:

My belief is that if Ted was the Z, he did not like himself as such...he knew that what he was doing was wrong and that his actions were those of an unstable person. He went into seclusion to escape from a society he could not cope with and to get away from the evil in himself he was unable to control. In seclusion, he succeeded in determining, in his own mind, the root cause of his social problems...boiling it down to technology. If you read carefully the Manifesto he so paintstakenly prepared (particularly the chart he identifies as "Diagram of Symptoms resulting from Disruption of the Power Process"), you will see the person who may have been Zodiac emerging... To me, Ted wrote this Manifesto from his own personal experiences.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (172.philadelphia06rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.26.172) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 10:06 pm:

Recall, too, that in 1978 he left Montana to take another "stab" at living normally, but failed in the attempt. He ended up moving back into the wilderness; this time for good.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) (dialup-65.58.7.243.dial1.portland1.level3.net - 65.58.7.243) on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 12:23 am:

Could one of you more experienced sleuths please tell me how to get a copy of Ted's diaries? Can you read the whole thing? The book by his Montana neighbor should arrive here in a week or so. Thanks.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (75.philadelphia03rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.21.75) on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 08:43 am:

Carolyn, only small portions of the diaries are publicly available. These were given in evidence at his trial in order to rebut certain defense motions, and they are by no means complete. Other snippets appeared in the psychiatric report prepared for the court by Dr. Sally Johnson, who was given full access to them. Apart from these small fragments, unless you can get Kaczynski's permission, you will not see the remainder of the documents until he dies. I've tried to get them via FOIA but have been refused on every occasion.

I've transcribed some of the court documents and you can see them at http://home.att.net/~mignarda/TKdoc.pdf. You've probably already read the Psych Report, but if not, it's at the Unabomber-Zodiac web page.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) (dialup-65.58.154.81.dial1.portland1.level3.net - 65.58.154.81) on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 03:39 pm:

Amazing choice of words: "For these reasons, I want to get my revenge in ONE BIG BLAST."

Hmhhh, seems like I read those words on a card somewhere!

By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-195.s195.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 208.59.124.195) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 03:02 am:

Carolyn: All material you can find on Kaczynski is extremely interesting (especially anything he is known to have written himself - his decoded diaries, especially). After rading everything you can find about TK/Unabomber and then compare with all information you can find on Zodiac, you can merge the two together like a glove.

As a Mother and Grandmother, I do have sympathy for Ted as it relates to his needs when he was growing up as a child. Although his parents did what they thought was right, he was put in intellectual peer groups above his social skill level. His mother knew he was bright and began from infancy tapping into his ability to learn quickly. Instead of fairy tales and children's stories, Wanda (his Mom) would read to him from Scientific American. Ted was quiet, didn't like noise and a little backward when it came to being around other children (at one point, his mother even thought there was a possibility he was autistic, but nothing was evidently detected by physicians in this regard). Ted then skipped two grades due to his intellectual ability, which only tended to further distance himself as it realted to his social immaturity. In order to gain attention, he often played pranks (some involving little bombs going off or placing dead animals in girls lockers). Ted was clearly, socially out of place. As a result, in later years, Ted blamed his parents for his lack of social skills and even for his lack of growth during this important period of time in his life.

By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-195.s195.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 208.59.124.195) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 03:12 am:

Carolyn...You mention ONE BIG BLAST as being an amazing choice of words. You may have already checked it out on Doug's site, but he has done an OUTSTANDING job of stylistic comparisons between Zodiac and TK... See: http://home.att.net/~mignarda/style.html

There has been no other Zodiac suspect who has been able to have their writings compared as such. Mainly because I don't believe any exist. The other suspects showed no propensity in their NEED to write. Zodiac displayed this NEED. Ted Kaczynski displayed this NEED. And both had this NEED to discuss and/or identify their crimes in writing, in code, to newspapers, victims and police.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) (dialup-64.158.123.37.dial1.portland1.level3.net - 64.158.123.37) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 11:39 am:

Thanks, Linda...I really appreciate your empathy. After reading "Harvard and the Making of the Unabomber" I had about concluded that he was innocent of Z and felt tremendously sorry for him as relates to the experiments at Harvard. And then I turned on this web site, expecting confirmation that he'd been cleared and was a little shocked to discover it wasn't necessarily so. Again, going back over these comparisons...it is unreal! No other suspect had such tremendous compulsion to write to the newspapers and reveal all, especially in view of the danger of being caught, being supremely confident of his elusiveness. I ran off a comparison of two of the handwriting samples and was shocked as well that they practically run together in similarity! More and more, as one looks into the crevice it looks suspicious. Thanks for your thoughts.

By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-100.s100.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 208.59.124.100) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 03:18 am:

Carolyn: I had read this article in the Atlantic Monthly a year or so ago, but until your post and looking it up again, didn't realize that Alston Chase had expanded this into book form, to be out to the public on February 3, 2003. I just ordered my copy from Border's and am looking forward to the read.

Certainly the Murray experiments performed at Harvard had an effect on Kaczynski which may have begun well before the Unabomber emerged.

Thanks again for reminding me about the article.