Paul Stine Police Report Message Board: Paul Stine: Paul Stine Police Report

By Tom Voigt (Admin) ( - on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:54 pm:

I've posted the San Francisco Police Department's report on the murder of Paul Stine.

Here's a link.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) ( - on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 09:29 am:

Tom, your spoiling us with all this new information,thanks!
For those of you familiar with the area/route taken,how does the timeline check out here?
Stines last dispatch call was at 9.45,he was dead approx.10 minutes later!.I calculate the distance between Mason and Geary and Washington/Cherry to be slighlty in excess of 4 miles.
In addition the return journey to 500th and 9th is about the same.Just wondering if it is possible that Zodiac was already in the Taxi when Stine got the call for 500th and 9th as opposed to him being picked up en-route.One would imagine the smart move for Z would have been to go to the St Francis location where he would be sure of getting a Taxi,rather than trying to flag one down.Don't know.
I'm also half surprised that Foulkes and Zelms were not first to the scene!

By Ed N. (Ed_N) ( - on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 12:23 pm:

Lapumo: around the time of the taskforce meeting, we drove from Mason and Geary to Washington and Cherry, and it took about 10 minutes, as I explained in my post in the thread 7-4-02 Amateur Task-Force Meeting: Task Force meeting, day by day on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 10:03 am. Since they made the trip starting around 9:45 PM and not in the early evening as we did, it's entirely possible that, with less traffic than at rush hour, he made the trip in less than 10 minutes. So, it's not impossible for it to have happened.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) ( - on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 03:23 pm:

Thanks Ed,I knew that was around somewhere but could not remember where.It's tight though, isn't it?.Perhaps I am looking for something that is not there but I can't help but get the feeling that there's something missing here.I think there is so much of this whole thing riding on what happened that night.How does the "Taxi rank" system work out there? Do you go and get into any available Taxi or are you directed to the first in line? Does it work on a rota system?
Also,I reckon the round trip back to 500th and 9th
would have taken at least 20 minutes,would Stine have kept the fare waiting to do an 8/9 mile round trip if he was already en-route,do you think?
Grabbing at straws!!!!

By William Baker (Bill_Baker) ( - on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 04:07 pm:

The fact that Z went around and wiped down the exterior of the driver's door, makes me think that if he was, as suspected, eradicating latents, he must at some point have touched that area. Perhaps placing his hands on the window frame as he spoke with Stine about getting a ride. It still bugs me that if Z was truthful about using airplane glue to avoid leaving latents, why he still had to wipe the cab down. It could have been in case he left palm prints or those from the fingers below the glued surfaces. Who knows? That he apparently used the remnant of Stine's shirt to do the wiping, indicates that he must have had a dual purpose in taking it, unless the wipe-down was an afterthought. That's assuming, of course, that whatever he used to wipe it down was the piece of shirt, and not another rag he brought along for that purpose. I can't shake the nagging feeling that wiping the cab was not, at least not entirely, simply to obliterate prints.

I'm also curious if the ambulance attendant that confirmed his death moved Stine in any significant way. The first cops on the scene described how they found him, mostly towards the passenger side, with his head on the right floorboard, and the photo shows his arm hanging out of the cab with the door open. It wouldn't go to prove anything, but anytime a scene (or body) is disturbed, however slightly, the virgin scene is forever altered.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) ( - on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 06:45 am:

According to the witnesses the cloth appeared to be a white rag or handkerchief,so it appears that is something he had with him."Placing his hands on the window frame as he spoke with Stine about getting a ride" would probably be the most likely explanation.But its careless isn't it.
If he did touch it in this manner would it not appear to indicate that Zodiac did in fact approach this Taxi while it was in the Taxi rank?
If he flagged it down en-route the passenger side would be closest to the sidewalk.
As a longshot,I wonder if Zodiac could have
"Zynchronosatively" (hey! hey!) come into contact with this particular Taxi previously.

By Ed N. (Ed_N) ( - on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 03:15 pm:

Lapumo: I take taxis rarely, so I don't know if there's any such system other than flagging one down or getting into the first one you see in line (maybe someone who's done the taxi thing more than I could be of help). I don't know how far the Allen Arms Apartments at 500 9th Avenue are from Washington and Cherry time-wise, but 5 minutes would be in the ballpark.

500 9th Avenue is right at the intersection of 9th and Anza, so it turns out that Washington and Cherry were not that far out of Stine's way from Mason and Geary. All he had to do after dropping Z off was proceed 1 block to Arguello, make a left and go about 5 blocks to Geary, then make a right and go 8 blocks to 9th Avenue. Another left and 1 block south was the Allen Arms, so I'd estimate that if it takes 10 minutes to get from Mason and Geary to PH, then it shouldn't have taken more than about 5 extra minutes for Stine to have picked up his fare at the Allen Arms. So, if I were Stine, I probably would have picked up the extra fare enroute, since it wouldn't have taken me too far out of my way to my destination. That means a little more $$$ plus a tip, so, if that was Stine's thinking, it cost him his life.

By Muskogee (Muskogee) ( - on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 05:29 pm:

Many of the streets in the area where Stine picked up Zodiac are one-way. That could account for his leaning on the driver door rather than the passenger door.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 01:32 pm:

Of course Zodiac,in his letter, refers to the cab wipe down as leaving one of his fake clews.Make the police think you left prints and all remaining prints cause them to,as he writes ,'run all over town' interviewing suspects!
He knew a public mode of transportation,like a cab,would have a ton of prints from many different people with various backgrounds,including a ciminal past.
I still wonder about those mens gloves that were found in the cab-do they reflect back to LB?

By Bookworm (Bookworm) ( - on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 08:15 pm:

Happy holidays everyone!

Could the wiping down of the cab possibly have something to do with the phone call from the car wash after the Lake Berryessa incident?

They lifted a palm print from the phone but first had to "dry" the print with artificial light, then they dust and lift the print.(Zodiac,p.75-76) Maybe Zodiac was close enough to observe what the police were doing.

Also, Paul Stine was shot close to his right ear where a phone receiver is normally held for phone calls if he was right handed. The receiver was left dangling at the car wash, and leaving the phone off the hook could be similar to leaving a meter running too, especially if the call is long distance.

Howard, I thought it was a pair of woman's gloves that were found.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 12:37 am:

According to the PD report it was a pair of male gloves size 7 as I remember it.The reference to the gloves being a females you refer to is from GSs book Zodiac.

By Bookworm (Bookworm) ( - on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

Howard, you're right. It's in a different report. Didn't you say you were also interested in Jack the Ripper?

The reason I ask is that a piece of Catherine Eddowes apron was cut and found bloodied in front of an apartment on Goulston St. The chalked handwriting on the wall was washed off for fear of the Jews being offended. The writing on Hartnell's door and the car wash could also be linked to the wiping down of the cab; I think the ink was permanent.

Another similarity would be that both doors would need body work to restore them. Is there any information on the accident Stine was involved in with the cab?

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 06:38 pm:

No info on Stines cab and the damage.This is quite common for a public mode of transportation-the odds are you will sustain some damage by the sheer fact you are constantly in traffic and are trying to rush your fare to his/her destination.
I don't think that Zodiac was quite so detailed in his symbolism as you present,but I do feel Jack the Ripper and his crimes did have some influence on Zodiac.To what extent is always a source of speculation.
Be prepared for more teasing when you engage in hyper symbolical gestures as it concerns Zodiac.
I will say you have always been polite and sincere and seem to take the posters ribbing quite well.I can't recall you ever attacking anyone,including me.We must have a sense of humor too.
I do believe in freedom of expression,but be prepared when extreme views-especially if they relate to Zodiac symbolism- for disagreement and yes,good old fashioned jesting!
I think the Biblical 'moderation' is the key to life.

By Bookworm (Bookworm) ( - on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 09:01 pm:

No, he may not have been so detailed. I just try to present some different ideas, maybe open some new doors. Tom reminded me not to get too abstract.

Jack the Ripper is probably the patron (I don't want to say saint.) of serial killers. He sure did get away with it. So far.

I was trying to read the label on the top of Stine's striped shirt. I couldn't find anything in the reports as to what the brand is.

Stine had to have had an autopsy. Why aren't the autopsy reports available on some of the victims?

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 01:25 am:

All autopsies are available -you just have to request them from the proper coroners office.You will have to pay a fee.You will not always get a detail like shirt brand name.

By William Baker (Bill_Baker) ( - on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 11:26 am:

Generally speaking, whether or not the coroner details such things as clothing brand names (the autopsy protocol itself doesn't ordinarily contain this info, although since Stine's shirt with its missing section had greater investigative focus than, say, his BVDs, it might have been described with more particularity), the investigating police agency most certainly will in their itemization of seized property. While coroner's reports might be more readily available to the public, police reports on an unsolved homicide case are usually not.