Washington and Cherry

Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Paul Stine: Washington and Cherry

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p51-0.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 09:11 am:

Here is an old historic anecdote: "When George was about 6 years old,he was made a wealthy owner of a hatchet! of which,like most little boys,he was immoderately fond;and was constantly going around chopping everything that came in his way.One day,in the garden,where he often amused himself by hacking his mother's pea-sticks,he inluckily tried the egde of the hatchet on the body of a beautiful young English Cherry tree,which he barked so terribly,that I don't believe the tree ever got the better of it.The next morning,the old gentleman,finding out what had befallen his tree which,by the by,was a great favourite,came into the house;and with much warmth asked for the mischievous author,declaring at the same time,that he would not have taken 5 guineas for the tree.Nobody would tell him anything about it.Presently George and his hatchet made their appearence.George,said his father,do you know who killed that beautiful little cherry tree yonder in the garden?
This was a tough question;and George staggered under it for a moment; but quickly recovered himself;and looking at his father,with the sweet face of youth brightened with the inexpressible charm of all-conquering truth, he bravely cried out,I can't tell a lie,Pa;you know I can,t tell a lie.I did cut it with my hatchet.--Run to my arms,you dearest boy,cried his father in transports,run to my arms; glad am I,George,that you killed my tree,for you have paid me for it a thousand fold.Such an act of heroism in my son is worth more than a thousand trees, though blossomed with silver and their fruits of purest gold"..THE END
That story concerned (George) "Washington and the legend of the Cherry tree".It was written by one Mason Locke Weems who (himself) was born on the 11th of October!

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (12-224-139-118.client.attbi.com - on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 01:00 pm:

Very interesting. Great job, Lapumo.
(If Zodiac had used George Washington stamps for the Stine letter I would place more likelihood on the scenario.)

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-187.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 01:31 pm:

Gives an insight does it not,into the thinking behind these crimes,the game being played,the symbolism.The whole murder that night was about claiming and proving responsibility.Hence,I believe,the bloody shirt also.But was that the only murder he was claiming responsibility for I wonder?

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (247.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 03:48 pm:

Did any of the known suspects use that kind of symbolism when planning and carrying out their crimes?

By Howard Davis (Howard) (host-66-81-194-182.rev.o1.com - on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 12:03 am:

Please see past posts!

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-160.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 03:06 am:

I assume Doug,you are referring to TK.Can you provide an example please? (one which you feel best matches here).
Howard,I don't know if that means this item came up before or you feel BD used similar symbolism when carrying out a particular crime!

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (150.philadelphia04rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 10:11 am:

Lapumo, Kaczynski went so far in his allegory as to include twigs of cherry wood in his bomb packages. That, along with his use of the word "wood" in his fictitious names and addresses no doubt constituted a major tease that was calculated to imply that he was living in the woods.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (150.philadelphia04rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 10:20 am:

Incidentally, Kaczynski was known to possess a penchant for truth-telling; even upbraiding his mother for having once told a white lie. During the infamous Harvard experiment his code name was "lawful," and if you examine his writings, both as himself and as the Unabomber, you can see that he went to some lengths to avoid falsehoods. So who knows? "Washington" and "Cherry" might not be such a stretch after all!

By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-45.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 11:16 am:

Yes Doug ,that is very interesting,especially his use of "Cherry" twigs.When I first came across this I was not only struck by the Washington and Cherry conection,but the added link also in that the author of the piece also happend to be born on the same day as the murder.
Don't get me wrong here but the example you gave(which is not out of place anyway) is more of a straightforward clue,perhaps.If Zodiac was influenced by this story then it feels as if the "symbolism" ran much deeper.What it would mean,at the very least, is that Zodiac chose the site and date of this murder to convey some message in itself.
Of cousre it's just speculation!

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (84.philadelphia05rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 02:32 pm:

Could very well be, Lapumo. Remember, too, that "Cherry" might stand for "Cheri," depending on how you pronounce it.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 12:55 am:

Just as an FYI as given in the past,and keeping in mind that Z requested the corner of Washington and Maple sts.(he wrote over "BY Washinton st.and Maple st."),Davis first met his god, CM in SEA ttle,Washington on September 15, 1967 having moved there from RIVER side(of course the "Wash" as water symbolism has been cited)and the Cherry(Cheri is a possible too) tree is the state tree.
Street names in Vallejo and L.B. fit in with BDs past and CMs also.For example,Tennesse St.and Knoxville RD.(BD went to Knoxville,TN college-he was reared in Harriman,TN,and went to Roane high(rh ?),all fairly close to Deer Lodge,the only other city in the U.S. with that name!),etc.Both men were highly symbolic in their thinking.
In My Life with Charles Manson, the author says"Charlie insisted we have access to the SEA[water]... and that two roads be joined.According to Revelation 10:2,"He set his right foot upon the sea and his left foot on the earth."Any elements of the Z case here- as to two roads joining and water?
Some have said when they went to the desert there ws no water,etc.They were right around Golar WASH,Panamint SPRINGS,and many other such like names out in Death Valley."They stayed at "The hot SPRINGS."All FYI

By Ed N. (Ed_N) (acac4a1c.ipt.aol.com - on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 02:22 am:

The only reason Barker Ranch existed in Death Valley was because of a spring located there, as I recall.

By Bookworm (Bookworm) (12-251-72-110.client.attbi.com - on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 11:01 am:

George Washington had red-brown hair, too. Witnesses said the suspects hair looked red.

By Classic (Classic) (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 10:29 pm:

An interesting side note. The actual hachet that G.W. used to chop down the cherry has been owned and passed down through my family for years. Seems sometime in the mid 1800's the wooden handle rotted away and was replaced. Then in the early 1900's the head finally rusted away and that was replaced. It's still G.W's hachet though, isn't it? lol Classic

By Howard Davis (Howard) (host-66-81-199-103.rev.o1.com - on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 11:01 pm:

Why don't you just send that old decaying artifact to me?I can not tell a lie-I will donate it to Tom!Heck he can use the fifty bucks or so!

By Metalex (Metalex) ( on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

Interesting info here for those who care. I don't think this tidbit has been discussed. While doing some literary research on San Farncisco authors I came across Count Marco's (Marc H. Spinelli's)address as being 845 California St where he lived from 1959 on. Strangely enough this address is only a few minutes away from 6114 California Street the Ole Church O Satan and very close to where Stine picked up his last fare. Maybe a possible connection. Count Marco did a Chronicle column called Beauty And The Beast since he was a hairdresser that included tips on how to find and keep a mate. Could Z have had some sort of underlying resentment?

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 05:26 pm:

"Underlying resentment" toward whom?

BTW, Metalex, why are your gaps between post to post so great? The Church of Satan connection honestly hadn't occurred to me before. How far was it from the COS and the location where Stine picked-up Z?

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (cache-dr05.proxy.aol.com - on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 08:26 pm:

Maybe Metalex sleeps in a lot.

By Howard Davis (Howard) (host-66-81-18-49.rev.o1.com - on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

The Church of Satan location and the fact people would 'crash' there for a night or two at all hours of the day or night,is walking distance from Washington and Cherry, has been discussed in past posts.