" 340 Code " Shocker
Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Ciphers: " 340 Code " Shocker
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 06:03 pm:|
Enclosed is my possible solution to the "340 Code". The shocking thing i ask is this- Where is the rest of it ? ( In my possible solution, the code breaks off mid-word on the last line. ) Perhaps the SFPD is holding on to the last four lines of code as a "key" to the killer. I added punctuation where I thought it would go. Anyway, i hope this helps + sheds light. Sincerely,
HELLO, HERE IS A CRAZY XMAS TREET(sic?), O ALBATROSS. I SLAY A LOT. CORNERSTONE RETRO TO A SET. I GET ANGRY SO FEAR LIL TOMB TROPHY, IN DEATH WEATHER. MY SLAYINGS HAVE GROWN. THE EIGHTH ONE I DATED. I SHALL TRY HARDER SOON. AVERLY ALLEGES THAT I KILL PUSHERS HERE. LIAR. IF I LET GO, SISSY, I SHALL RATHER DO MY THING. I SHALL MULTIPLY BAD PASSIONS THAT BIRTH. LET'S RAGE. ALBATROSS COAST. I CHOSE EIGTH (sic?) ACTION YOUN (sic?). GET AVERLY'S ATTENTION. ILLUSTRA- ( code breaks off here on line 20 )
|By Kevin (Kevinrm) (ip68-98-108-6.ph.ph.cox.net - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 12:12 am:|
Curious, how did you come up with this?
|By Eduard Versluijs (stud033.feo.hvu.nl - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 10:35 am:|
Your solution sounds like a solution coming from Robert Graysmith LOL
|By Tom_Voigt (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 11:57 am:|
Eduard, unless you understand his methods, how can you ridicule Pax?
|By Julia (Julia) (dialup-22.214.171.124.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 12:47 pm:|
So do you have a worksheet you could post for us, Pax? I'm curious.
If nothing else, you have Zodiac's literary style down pat--you know, "I took some really bad drugs today and now I'm going to ramble maniacally at you."
Other albatross references I can think of: Coleridge's "Rime of the Ancient Mariner", and Baudelaire's poem, which includes the line (in the translation I have) "The Poet is like this monarch of the clouds riding the storm above the marksman's range".
Baudelaire was known as "the poet of sickness and evil," and his work as representing depravity and vice. His most famous volume of poetry is called "Flowers of Evil."
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (pool-151-197-61-204.phil.east.verizon.net - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 04:15 pm:|
Actually, Julia "rambling" isn't Zodiac's style at all. Rather, it's the style of people who think they know his style.
|By PAX (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 06:42 pm:|
Hello, all. This possible solution was like doing a crossword puzzle upside down in a wind tunnel !!! some of the lines came before others , I believe the Zodiac wrote this code out of sequence to confound everyone. When I saw the word break off in the bottom line, i knew i was onto something. I can't duplicate the key unless i have access to a symbols chart, but i have it in my notes, i will be happy to send off a copy to you if you are interested. I want this man caught, as you all do..... Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By PAX (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 06:47 pm:|
Hello all, again perhaps i could send this to Mr. Voight at the address posted on the
front page of the site i can make copies of the key
(which was a pain in the neck ) and maybe it can surface that way PAX1222@aol.com
|By PAX (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 06:52 pm:|
here i go again darn it ! I called California Board of Tourism and asked if there was such a place as the "Albatross Coast." negative results. i thought this was a location clue related to a possible victim of zodiac. I read the Picasso reference, which blew me out of the water, as i looked at the Ancient Mariner rhyme and found nothing. In so far as Mr. Graysmith, I respect him, he did pioneer this in the hopes of us all ---- to get the bad guy PAX1222@aol.com
|By JeffHamm (j.hamm1.psy.auckland.ac.nz - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 08:01 pm:|
There are some "ASCII versions" of the 340 cypher available on the site (Zodiac symbols substituted with easy keyboard symbols). Using one of these for your "solution keys" would be the best way to post it.
|By Eduard Versluijs (iproxy4.kennisnet.nl - 126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 12:23 am:|
I wasn't ridiculing Pax I was in fact ridiculing Graysmith but I now see how you could read it otherwise. Pax I owe you an appology. Pax, my message was never intended to be a bash at you or your work.
P.S. Only 2 months untill my 70-pages long manuscript about Zodiac will be downladable for free from the internet (it deals with the solution to the 340 and 13-codes)
|By JeffHamm (j.hamm1.psy.auckland.ac.nz - 188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 02:49 pm:|
I've written a simple program that reads in the cipher in text format (using the ascii version found on this site) and then allows me to make substitutions. I can't seem to get your solution to work though? I've tried including and excluding the punctuation but it seems to break down by the time I get to XMas. With or without punctuation, this part of the cipher repeats the "p" (Ascii version of the symbol), which is used as the O in Hello. Does your solution involve more than substitution?
|By Scream187 (hse-quebeccity-ppp3498610.sympatico.ca - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 07:00 pm:|
hey jeff, do you think i could get a copy of that software you made? sounds usefull.
I'm also curious as to how pax came to his solution eventho it seems too Graysmith-ish for me...
|By PAX (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 07:11 pm:|
Hello all, The solution worked for me in a two-fold manner . I have the original key which broke open only some of the lines of text then i experimented with other symbols and codes.I followed the path that the Hardens set when they solved the first code , namely finding numerous substitutions for letters ("E" for instance). So I knew that he, the zodiac, would also use multiple substitutions. And no, (grinning) I didnt hold the code up to a mirror to get it ( tried it that way as well as upside down; this only seems to work for Beatle Paul McCartney death clues i am afraid ) Jeff, I think that my possible solution does use more in so far as there are numerous symbols and letters that zodiac used to stand for others, some of the subs were only for one letter and not used again. Eduard, no offense taken. If we all as I think we are of a same mind then it is to solve this mystery and lay it to rest. I did send off a copy of the 340 code possible solution to Mr. Graysmith some time ago. I am uncertain if he was able to get to it or even if it got mailed there. My best shot seems to be to send off the notes and explanations to Mr. V. Sincerely PAX1222@aol.com
|By JeffHamm (j.hamm1.psy.auckland.ac.nz - 18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:09 pm:|
I'll try and put together a "user friendly" version. I can e-mail it to you as an attachment when I get it ready. Or, if there are a number of people who would like a copy, maybe Tom would consider making it available from his site?
Ok. I figured that you must allow multiple letters for the same symbol (which, by the way, my program doesn't allow for). Just wanted to make sure on that.
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:36 am:|
Dear Jeff, i can send the keys to you via regular mail as my fffing scanner wont work....I can make copies for you . If this is not desirable, i will mail the pages off to Mr. Voigt, using the address he has on the site. i tried to do this by lining up the numbers but it came out bass-ackwards... PAX1222@aol.com
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:37 am:|
Hello all, i will attempt to put the code lined up with the numbers, ok ? here goes,
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
1 h e l l o h e r e i s a c r a z y
2 x m a s t t r e e t o a l b a t o
3 s s i s l a y a l o t c o r n e r
4 s t o n e r e t r o t o a s e t i
5 g e t a n g r y s o f e a r l i l
6 t o m b t r o p h y i n d e a t h
7 w e a t h e r m y s l a y i n g s
8 h a v e g r o w n t h e e i g h t
9 h o n e i d a t e d i s h a l l t
10 r y h a r d e r s o o n a v e r l
11 y a l l e g e s t h a t i k i l l
12 p u s h e r s h e r e l i a r i f
13 i l e t g o s i s s y i s h a l l
14 r a t h e r d o m y t h i n g i s
15 h a l l m u l t i p l y b a d p a
16 s s i o n s t h a t b i r t h l e
17 t s r a g e a l b a t r o s s c o
18 a s t i c h o s e e i g t h a c t
19 i o n y o u n g e t a v e r l y s
20 a t t e n t i o n i l l u s t r a-----
---Code breaks off.
Like i said, a tough code.............I hope this breaks it down even further for everyone. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-139.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:51 am:|
Looking to save myself some trouble here first Pax.Is what you have given us here a
straightforward letter for symbol swap?.In other words a straight reading.Or has there
been some anagramming/other involved?
|By weisguy (host79-197.rancor.birch.net - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:44 pm:|
don't know if this is a coincidence, but the navy and coast guard used to have a plane
the HU-16 albatross made by Gumman. Since there has been speculation that Z had milatary
experience, perhaps Albatross Caost is the Coat Gaurds plane called the Albatross. Here is
a link with more info.
Interesting that "Averly" is mispelled like on the Z holloween message.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (220.127.116.11.lcinet.net - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:11 pm:|
The late Zodiac expert Dave Peterson sent a police copy of the 340 to me many years ago and the Z circle/cross along with S.F.P.D.s 'stamp'is just below the final line of characters and the copy is just as you find in GS's Zodiac book.Peterson believed it was the cipher in its entirety.I find no break or unfinished code set.
I have had contact with code experts that have had Zodiac cipher/solutions submitted to them over the years-and their number has grown-but, so have the turn downs of purported solutions as being verifiable solutions.Some have been quite ingenius,but fail under strict detailed analysis.One thing has been prominent-the code people have told me that all of the solution people (this is fine-I say keep it up) say the code expert'just didn't understand their solution',etc.- and 'to check further!'Human nature,I guess.
Good friend Lapumo,hello!How do feel about the claim the code is unfinished or has a break at the end?I don't see it,but doesn't mean it ain't there.What's your position on Paxs'dedicated work?We gotta; e mail again.See ya at the pub for darts! rh
There is also an Albatross award one can receive in the Coast Guard.Click google and albatross-ya probably did already.I am not saying I agree that this word is even in the 340.There are so many "solutions" to this code, I don't think we can affirm it is correct.But,All comers are welcome - this is freedom of expression,which is always good.
|By lapumo (p51-103.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 01:41 am:|
Pax needs to supply alot more information.
This breaks down at the first repeated symbol.The "reverse P" (Rp)is in position 5 and repeated at position 19. Therefore "Rp" equals O in position 5 and M in position 19.
Working backward from the last line Rp equals T.
That's three different values for the same symbol,without looking any further.
We can't evaluate this without him telling us what he did.
|By lapumo (p51-61.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:21 pm:|
What would help here is for you to supply the unedited version of your solution.Just as you have done above but before you arranged everything in the order you think it should go.
Convert each symbol to a letter and leave it at that.It really is pointless discussing the finished text until such time as we can verify it actually exists.
Instead of posting off copies, another alternative would be to convert each symbol as it appears in original form to a number and then give us its value.
Example; the first three symbols of the code are H,E,R convert to 1,2,and 3 and tell us what each number corresponds to.
If we take your finished version above then 1=H,
Hope this helps
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:54 pm:|
I read that you received a copy of the" 340 code". In my possible solution, it is not complete. There is precedence for this; in Graysmith's book "Zodiac Unmasked" there was a phrase that went like this "all i had to do was spray them----" it was later amended and this was added on "like a hose" or similar words to that effect. My point is, this information, from a zodiac letter, was held back from the public for years. It is a possibility that other info from the zodiac letters is being held onto as well.
|By Tom_Voigt (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:04 pm:|
"It is a possibility that other info from the zodiac letters is being held onto
Pax, considering all of the letters are reproduced here at Zodiackiller.com, maybe you could explain how that would be possible?
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:37 pm:|
Hello Mr. Voigt,
I am sorry. I checked the August 69 letter and there it was. I went off on the wrong path. What i meant to point out was this; on page 118 of Graysmith's book, "zodiac unmasked" , it clearly states this : " spray them." Here, Toschi came to the remainder of this last sentence, one that he and Armstrong HAD ORDERED THE PRESS NOT TO PRINT......etc. Here, I saw that at least this part of the letter was being suppressed, with the police and press co-operating with one another.... I should have looked this up first, so i could be exact with it. Again, sorry. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (18.104.22.168.lcinet.net - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:19 pm:|
I have a complete copy of the 340 just as it was given to Peterson from a excellent source at the time.
As Tom indicates, everything is presented on his site in its totality.He worked very hard over the years to obtain uncensored documents,much to his credit.The posters benefit from his labors-and zollars spent!
At one time they did suppress certain portions of letters,but the codes were published-including the 340, in full, in hopes of someone cracking them.
Over time, as each letter was acquired by people like Tom and published,it was no longer a partial playing field as regards Z documents.
|By PAX (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:58 pm:|
Thanx for the letter. I think it still remains to be seen whether or not my possible answer is the one zodiac wrote. See, I think zodiac likes confusion and these codes are a part of that. My desire was to solve it and crack it wide open for all to see. Disagreement is fine with me, it shows we are all brainstorming on our feet. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (host-66-81-198-206.rev.o1.com - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:43 am:|
As I keep saying,we need differing views,so no problem.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-9.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 04:47 am:|
Pax wrote:"My desire was to solve it and crack it wide open for all to see".
That's fine Pax,however the problem is that we have seen numerous "solutions" to this cipher already.What your effort appears to have going for it is that you seem to have been able to use all of the symbols,which many of the others (Eric's aside)have not been able to do.The incorrect spelling of Avery(Averly)is also interesting, along with "break".What is most interesting is your claim that some lines came before others.
However,there is no way this can be discussed in any meaningful way until such time as we are can verify that it actually exists.If that's something you are interested in doing,you need to post the "Raw" version(Where the cipher is laid out in it's original decrypted form where letters correspond to symbols).
If that's not something you are willing to do,just please tell us.
|By db (cs2416235-177.houston.rr.com - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 05:45 pm:|
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 03:05 pm:|
I prepared the answer keys and the grids. I mailed them off today. It should reach Mr. Voigt tomorrow (Saturday ). Again, I hope it sheds light on this area. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By PAX (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 07:17 pm:|
I verified the mail, through UPS.com. It arrived in the mail to Mr. Voigt's site address on this date.
I came up with two keys and two grids.
The theory i have regarding the four lines missing is this- In the three-part cipher (the Hardens' code ), zodiac's full communication, when added up, equaled a total of 17 lines across, 24 lines down. In the "340 code", we see 17 lines across, but only 20 down. Hence, my theory that four lines may have been held back. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By Eduard Versluijs (iproxy3.kennisnet.nl - 126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 03:17 am:|
Your solution at first glance looks much more creadible than that of Graysmith's. I urge you to establish contact with some experts in the field of decoding and ciphers.
Maybe Lapumo can help you out with this? he has spend time on the code as well and has established good contacts in that field.
|By Estelle Cotton (12-227-211-15.client.bresnan.net - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 09:34 am:|
It is not impossible that Zodiac would finish his message in mid sentence. His first cipher included 18 letters that don't make any sense. Most people think this was just to fill out the cipher, and give it the look that he wanted. Why wouldn't he stop mid sentence to do the same thing, or even to purposefully confuse people?
|By Estelle Cotton (12-227-211-15.client.bresnan.net - 184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 09:40 am:|
In Pax's translation, could the first line be
"Here is a crazy Xmas tree to Albatross." Just a thought.
|By PAX (cache-dh03.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 01:27 pm:|
I thank you for the continued input. I have taken steps with the code. I hope these steps turn into positive strides.
|By Eduard Versluijs (iproxy2.kennisnet.nl - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 12:02 am:|
I agree with you on this subject....
What would be the challenge for Zodiac to write a code with nothing in it?
If he DID put a message in the code (like I believe), he had the exciting feeling of knowing how the code worked and that someone would try to break this unbreakable code.
Already mensioned by someone else: Why the correction in the 340 code if it wasn't needed (no message?). It wouldn't make sense (or you must say that it was made to make it look as if a message was in it)!
Why didn't Zodiac started all over but left the correction in the code when he send it? Could it be there is a hidden clue behind it not discovered yet? If so that might be an indication that there can be a message in it.
When Harden solved the code Zodiac probably was upset by it being solved so quickly.
He was probably damaged in his honor and made the next codes more "Crackproof" than the first one.
Let's face it, Zodiac certainly had a too big ego for just writing nothing in the code.
P.S. Yes, I know this is just speculation...
|By Eduard Versluijs (iproxy3.kennisnet.nl - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 12:05 am:|
Or the 340 cipher is needed to break the 13 character code....
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (126.96.36.199.lcinet.net - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 01:35 pm:|
Keep in mind ,that in a FBI report that Dave Peterson sent to me, they have the
following for the 13 symbol "My name is...":Adam Shanahan,Adam Granahan,Adam
Flanagan and Gemini after each solution or name!See my posts by clicking shanahan.
Note:on this Board alone,there have been several solutions proposed as per the Archives.This includes the 340 and the map code.
Also,Zodiac seems enamored with the occultic number 13.Check out all the times 13 is connected to him or rather,he links it to himself.This is the same FBI that supposedly disproved GS' 340 solution,which is only one of many, according to cipher experts I have contacted.
It is interesting to note that when a cipher guy would contact the would-be code solver ,none of them would accept the refutation.They were right and he was wrong!Human nature.
It reminds me of the Gainsville.,FLA. murders.They had the 'perfect' suspect(and I mean perfect to the max)but they happened to find Danny Rolling, a drifter.The rest is history.
Some detectives still firmly believe,in spite of overwhelming evidence,that their first perfect suspect is the perp!
A person persuaded against their will is of the SAME opinion still.Old,but works...I fear this applies to code solvers too,but let it continue in the interest of free and open investigation.
|By PAX (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 03:45 pm:|
I am indeed, a would- be code solver. I would be available to confer with a cipher guy, regarding my possible answer to this code. Please advise me on what to do, or tell them my e-mail address. I will respond with bells on (grinning). Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By revy (220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 08:41 pm:|
If no one ever solves his ciphers what good where they? If he had a real message he would want at least someone to figure it out. No? If he was that scared of being busted through his ciphers he wouldn't have made them......at all....
|By the Raven (h-68-164-65-26.lsanca54.covad.net - 18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 05:49 pm:|
Wasn't Melvin Belli his second choice and F. Lee Bailey his first choice of attorneys?
|By J Eric (J_Eric) (dialup-22.214.171.124.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net - 126.96.36.199) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 10:16 pm:|
The Spanish word for "ALBATROSS" is "ALCATRAZ" and that ought to ring a few nautical bells. Albatross Coast may = San Francisco?
|By John Pruitt (188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:52 am:|
In the july 31st 1969 letter, the third part of the cipher that was sent to the sf examiner, was the final line ever solved? It doesnt show to be?
|By the Raven (h-68-164-58-69.lsanca54.covad.net - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 06:26 pm:|
I, like everyone else, have my own theory on how the 340 code pans out. Personally, I
think it does contain a code that is far more sophisticated than his 3 part cipher just
for the fact that his previous one got cracked in relatively short order. Also, as I
stated earlier, he was probably pretty pissed off about that. Thinking he's sooo smart,
and bang! Someone school teacher slaps some reality into him. The 340 obviously has some
multi-deciphering to overcome.
All that said, if someone here does, in fact, crack the cipher, that translation could potentially be worth millions of dollars. Placing an open solution on a BBS like this might very well be releasing any and all rights the solver may have to it. I know, for myself anyway, that I will first send a solution off for a federal copyright and to the writer's guild registrar before placing any solution I may have into the public domain. No newspaper, television, or other media outlet will be able to print or use the solution without paying royalties. Now those royalties may not be personal, they can be donated to a general victim's fund of which many exist or to create a new watchdog group which help with rewards to capture serial killers. Again, just my two cents.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (host-66-81-26-220.rev.o1.com - 220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 12:41 am:|
Just some questions concening the great 340 cipher.In gaining an historical
perspective and a fuller concept of the 340, do we have an historical background to
ascertain the probability of what could be revealed in a decoded 340?In this case it is
We can point to and study the contents of Code I.
What do we discover when we analyize its message?
Does this Harden decode job lead us to the killer?Did we really get a literal name as Z promised?Does knowing that he 'enjoys killing' and that when he is 'reborn in paradise all of those he killed will be his slaves' help us solve the case?Up to this time has it solved the case through any earth shaking revelations?Now,considering this and any other questions we may have,can we,based on a known historical manifestation or Code I,really expect that the then future Code II, would have clues leading to Zodiacs door as it were?Case solution is primary here.
Will all of this help with a background of the author?Of course,but most reject much of what Zodiac recounts(2 kills in August '69,KJ and CB as victims,man shot with .38,he believes in slaves in afterlife,used astrology,etc.,etc.) in his missives,unless he refers to known historical facts.Big problems here?
Just questions OK?FYI Time
|By Bargle (pcp03606092pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net - 18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 03:07 pm:|
You make a good point Howard. I am doubtful that there is anything in the code which will lead us to Zodiac's doorstep. Still, it would be very interesting to know what it says.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (22.214.171.124.lcinet.net - 126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 05:48 pm:|
Wait.I just finished deciphering the 340!Ready?
I likee nedling the city piggs-it is so much funn...when I an reborn in paradise I can kep them in a large space to use deep het on them...Ed and Tom are smart but I am much beeter and even smarter than them...I live at 666 Morton WAy with my mom in Toculac lake-hey you pigs drop in sometime...I am sleeping around 7:00 and there is an alley they can catch me after abot two minuts,bit I have been to clever for them I won't be home...And my name is Jeffery smith jr...ss #444-567-3409...toschi the hippi pig cop...
I would,anotherwords,expect more of the same nonsense.Z wasn't into giving his name as per his first code and he signed a letter "No address."I think he MEANT it and he used anti detection methods to make certain,in his mind, he would not be caught.He boasted about being more clever than the police and that he was crack proof- and that they would never catch him-until,of course,some code breaker finds his name and address in the 340!It was an obvious ploy to attract and obtain publicity.Z wanted Code I on the FRONT page and he even said as to WHEN,August first (an old Norse holiday Lammas FYI).
And if anyone believes the so called map code tells where he set up his "death machine' AND that it actually existed at that place, then I have this beachfront property in Iowa.Nothing down too!Just having some fun!I hope the decoding goes on with much success.
And My name is...just too rich for words!
He demanded it to be so or he would kill 12 people !It worked.As Kelleher says in his book ,Zodiac was an excellent PR man,yer person!
|By Bargle (pcp03606092pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 08:39 pm:|
|By John Pruitt (184.108.40.206) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:01 am:|
In case I missed it......Today are law enforcement, military, code breakers activly
trying to solve the code?
Or just people with interest like you and I? It seems technolegy has come leaps and bounds and that they would have some program of sorts to put the code into the system and run every possibility. Or is it still just not that important to everybody to try to solve this thing?
|By Sandy (Sandy) (adsl-67-122-214-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:17 am:|
Howard,LOL ! I missed you sooo much at the last meeting, I hope you will make it up this way soon?
|By Sandy (Sandy) (adsl-67-122-214-224.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:25 am:|
John Pruit,As far as I can tell they have other things more important to do. When they get caught up and nothing else to do, maybe then they will take another look at it. I have taken boxes of Krispy Kream's with a copy of the code at the bottom of the box, and have not heard a word yet.
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 03:27 pm:|
Is there a way to check if I am correct in that 4 lines may be missing from the 340 code ? Is it possible to speak with Ins. Toschi ? Or is it a maze again ?
|By Ray N (Ray_N) (dialup-126.96.36.199.dial1.detroit1.level3.net - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 07:51 am:|
What's the story with Pax's code key? He says you have received it. Do you in fact have anything from this person? If so, what is it?
|By Tom_Voigt (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 01:48 pm:|
Ray, yes, I received it. He's welcome to post it. I'm the wrong guy to give an opinion on its validity -- codes aren't my thing.
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 04:29 pm:|
Enclosed is the first answer key I came up with. First, I'll do the letter substitutions, then the symbol subs as best as I can. (scanner is out of order) Okay, then :
A= A,G,U/ C= C,L/ D=T/ E=E,H,P,R/ F=F/ G=A,L/ H=E,H/ J=H,L,R/ K=T/ L=G,O,R,X/ M=R,T/ N=I,N/ O=L,O,S,W/ P=E/ R=E,J,L,M,T,V/ S=O,S/ T=D,K,R,T/ V=Y/ W=O/ X=L/ Y=F,H,V/ Z=I
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 04:48 pm:|
Part 2 of the "340 Code":
Enclosed are now the symbol substitutions that I had for this code.
A=plus sign, backwards B, letter V turned to the left/ B=upsidedown V/ D=filled-in square, filled-in circle/ E=filled-in circle, circle with top half filled-in, square with lower right side filled in, upsidedown V, triangle/ F=backwards Y, letter V turned to the left/ G=anchor-shaped symbol/ H=backwards Q, square with lower left side filled in, circle with vertical line drawn thru center, backwards Y, backwards L, right-slanted line/ I= dot, backwards K, squiggly X with dot on right side/ L= right-slanted line, triangle filled-in, letter V turned to the left, circle with left side filled-in/ N= zodiac sign with filled-in circle, triangle with dot in center/ O= square filled-in, number 9, circle with right side filled-in/ P= long dash/ Q= no symbol/ R= squiggly X with dot on left side, backwards J, backwards F/ S= backwards B, straight line vertical, backwards C, circle filled-in/ T= circle with horizontal line thru center, number 9/ U= letter V turned to the right/ W= square filled-in/ Y= backwards D, square with lower left side filled-in/ Z= circle with top half filled-in
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 05:05 pm:|
Part 3 of the "340 code"
Enclosed were the partial possible breaks I found in this code using the aforementioned key and some guessing. Here goes:
Line 1- Hello here is a crazy ( symbols 1-17)
Line 3- a lot corner ( symbols 9-17)
Line 4- stone ( symbols 1-5)
Line 5- get angry ( symbols 1-8) fear (symbols 11-14)
Line 6- tomb trophy (symbols 1-10)
Line 7- weather (symbols 1-7) slayings (symbols 10-17)
Line 9- shall (symbols 12-16)
Line11- alleges that (symbols 2-12)
Line12- pushers here (symbols 1-11)
Line13- shall (symbols 13-17)
Lines 14,15,16,17- i shall (line 15 symbols 16+17; line 16 symbols 1-4) multiply bad pa- (line 15 symbols 1-17) ssions that birth le- (line 16 symbols 1-17) ts rage ( line 17 symbols 1-6)
Line19- young ( symbols 4-8)
Line20- attention illustra ( symbols 1-17 )
So, here we have some possible partial breaks in this code. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 05:08 pm:|
Oh, and thanks to Mr. Voigt for letting me post this and apologies to those who emailed me wanting the key for the code. PAX
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-11.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 08:24 am:|
I'm sorry Pax,this does not check out,at least by any standard that I have ever seen.
The first problem here, is that in many instances,you have the same symbols representing different letters.That in and of itself is not cause for dismissal as Zodiac could have used a Polyalphabetical encryption method .However you would have to show structure here and given "your" overall solution that is neither evident or likely IMHO.
As an example I will take the first five symbols
H,E,R,>,9. You have used these to spell HELLO.
However as these symbols are used to represent different letters in other parts of the cipher what you have is H=(H,E,Y),E=(E,H,P,R),R=(E,J,L,M,T),>= (L,A,F) 9=(O,T).
As you can see HELLO is only one possible solution
and while the most likely in this instance,it cannot be chosen on that basis unless you can show design,not only in this instance but throughout the cipher.
The second time the symbol "H" appears is at the end of line three.Here you have it representing an "E" And the third and last time is on the last line where it again represents an "E".
When you use like symbols to represent different letters it means that the encipherment technique is polyalphabetical as opposed to Monoalphabetical
(such as the first cipher).
A typical example of a polyalphabet would be a Vigenere cipher.This is one that would use a keyword and one that would allow you to work backwards,to discover what that keyword was,thus proving design.
The next problem I see is the "+" symbol which represents A.In three instances within the cipher we have a double "++",yet your solution shows no "AA".Again not cause for dismissal in and of itself.It could well be that any double could be intended as a single.It would not surprise me at all to find that Zodiac would have done so here.
However at this stage we need to know more as to how you accounted for this.
You have the letter "I" represented by "dot, backwards K and squiggly X with the dot on the right hand side(three symbols).In total the "dot"
appears 6 times, the backwards K 5 times and the squiggly X once. A total of 12. However a count of the "I's" in you solution puts that firgure at 20!
Finally,(I stand to be corrected) it appears you have not accounted for all 65 symbols.
At this stage Pax,I would have to say that this does not look or feel right,but that's just my opinion.There are still some positives though,but we need to know a bit more.The best way to examine this in a bit more depth would be for you to repeat the format you outlined earlier on this thread, on June 6th.Instead of providing your polished solution though just give each symbol a letter wherever they fall and lay it out accordingly.
In short,we would need to examine this in its "raw" form. It does not matter nor take from a valid solution because there are apparent errors. Providing a cleaned up version at this stage is counter-productive in that it does not allow us to check the exact encryption technique(if one exists).
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 09:50 am:|
My opinion regarding the answer key is for example, sometimes A stood for A, A stood for another letter and A stood for a symbol...Applied to the code it would be clearer. So-
This key is answer key number 1...Subsequent work on it also added other letters to fill out the words Tomb Trophy(Line 6) for example, and to fill in the two symbols between
Weather -- Slayings (Line 7) I guessed that the two symbols would be the word " My" So this added two more symbols to the key. If you would, get or make a copy of the "340 code" in a grid, and number it across 1-17 and then down 1-20. Leave space under the symbols so you have room. Then fill in the words I have given you they correspond to the line number and the symbol number. Then you can go from there. I will post it this way so it may be clearer to understand.
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:22 am:|
The across count goes to 17. These were the words that I got. The star symbols are the unknowns at this time.(I filled in words through guesswork and the use of my key) If a grid is done and you fill in these words, it will become much clearer. (it did to me, anyways)
Also, the letter P filled in appears twice, on line 5; symbol 14 and then on line 12; symbol 15.....I guessed at this and named it the letter R.......the plus sign ultimately stood for A, I, and S.....to me.
The circle with the top filled in on line 7(symbol 8) I guessed as being M.Then it was easy to say that the next symbol, letter U (same line; symbol number 9)was in fact letter Y....These formed the word MY...To me it fit, as zodiac seems to love to speak about himself all the time.
I stand by what i came up with.
I deem it a definite break in the "340 code"
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:25 am:|
Oh, I am not a lunatic, nor am I the zodiac.... PAX (Mike) grinning.......
|By Ray N (Ray_N) (dialup-22.214.171.124.dial1.detroit1.level3.net - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 11:14 am:|
I think what you're missing is that there is no misunderstanding of what you are claiming. But as Lapumo has illustrated, a polyalphabetic cipher has to have some structure, otherwise it is not a cipher. In order to even come close to such a key, you would have to show the algorithm (method) by which one symbol cycles between letters. Otherwise what we would have is a key that cannot be substantiated and therefore no message it uncovers can be verified. The way you have it now, there is no explanation of why certain symbols represent certain letters, how that transposition is determined, or what the method is for cycling the substitutions. (In other words, the logical sequence that a computer would use to run through the billions of possible combinations that you seem to have done without.) Without such an explanation, one is left to wonder how the key was established in the first place. The simplest explanation would be that the key was matched to plaintext that was simply guessed at or approximated. Putting the key together like that is getting the cart before the horse. You will simply never be able to reconcile any messages or keys developed in this manner. Although I salute your efforts, I'm afraid you're on the wrong track here. Perhaps if you successfully clarified the exact procedures you used to establish the key, we could be more receptive. In other words, instead of giving us the key, tell us how you developed it.
As an example, you note that you expect there to be more to the message, in fact, you expect there to be 4 more lines that are "missing". This statement speaks to the heart of our arguments, in that what you have now is broken and not particularly intelligible. That can be safely stated. But you go on to predict 4 more lines. As if you already have an idea of what those 4 lines are going to say before you have seen them, based on nothing more than sporadic, unintelligible ramble. If on one hand we were looking at "form a more perfect union establish justice", we might guess that "insure domestic tranquility" might follow. But no such predictions can be made for "IS HALL MULTIPLY BAD PASSIONS THAT BIRTH LETS RAGE". Simply put, this further suggests to me you are not following a legitimate method of decryption.
I hope these criticisms are taken constructively, that is most assuredly how they are offered. The best advice I can give you is don't quit trying.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p51-115.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 11:14 am:|
Thanks Mike that is much clearer.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p51-43.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 01:05 pm:|
It is now clear how you approached this.You have done all that anyone one of us can;that is to go in here and hope we get lucky enough to match up a couple of symbol strings to coherent text and try to match things up from there.I was under the impression that you had a list of words that were an exact match in some places.In other words,one letter to one symbol.
That is indeed what you may have started with or thought you had.What I'm guessing then happened is that in attempting to match these symbols elsewhere you got what appeared to be a few partical words or strings that looked like partial words.
However this is where I suggest you made a mistake.You were unable to complete these words without giving symbols more than one value.
In choosing to continue you got another couple of words that appeared legitimate and so on until you have what appears to look like a significant portion of the cipher solved.
It would not be fair to say that you should have stopped as soon as you had to attribute extra values to same symbols.It's not a case of this cipher not being polyalphabetical in design it may prove to be,however this is where the early error made things look a little more interesting than they actually were.You at least had to go that extra step just in case.However you are now at the point where only so much fits.Proceeding from here is only going to produce more and more gibberish or you are going to have to give each symbol more and more values.
If you were on the right track with these words there would be enough repitions there already to hint that a keyword might be at play.However that does not appear to be the case.It appears most likely that your initial guesses were wrong.
Just to give you an example in taking the first two lines of the cipher.Out of 34 symbols 33 of them are different.Therefore you could make up just about anything you liked. I am sure you could then "find" another few words based on these
throughout the rest of the cipher and then another few if you decided to give symbols different values and so on.The only way one could ever prove it correct is to find the key.
Again its great to see someone with the patience and interest to have a go here,all I can say is keep it up.
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 05:58 pm:|
Dear Ed and Lapumo,
My approach was this: I thought that zodiac had an original key and then he played around with the symbols and letters in that key as an addition to throw off code-breakers. I know he loved alliteration in his letters so I looked for it in the code. You see, the first line broke (to me) completely, then I had problems with some of the subsequent lines. So I jumped around and here and there could be seen words. It seems that the most important letters (to zodiac) had the most subs to them. But I know he had to have stopped at a point, because, if every symbol equals every letter, then anything could be plugged in. Possible partial solution ? I hope so. And the feedback is tremendous, thanks to all....
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 06:09 pm:|
Dear Ray, Sorry meant to address you and Lapumo. I addressed Ed instead. Oops ! The only criteria I have for possibly 4 lines missing is two-fold: 1. the Hardens' code was 17 across, 24 down. The "340 code" is 17 across, only 20 down. 2. In the possible break, the last word on line 20 seems to be a variation on illustrate, illustration and so on. Beyond this, barring anyone associated with the zodiac investigation confirming it, is not known at this time. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw1.ciw.edu - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:23 pm:|
Your efforts on solving this cipher are to be commended. Regarding your methods:
1.) I deem it a definite break in the "340 code"
I deem it an INdefinite break.
I agree with everything Lapumo said in criticizing your method. You can't simply employ one new alphabet after another (A = B, then A = R, then A= E, etc.) without some system (like Vigenere). To do so one could literally get anything out of the 340 cipher, including the Gettysburg Address.
2.) To simplify your life you may wish to use an ASCII representation of the cipher, rather than words like "squiggly X with the dot on the right hand side" one such representation can be found here
This will enable you to communicate your solution using a simple 63 character KEY.
3.) To see how robust your methods are, please first solve the much easier cipher proposed by Ray
but not yet solved. This has the distict advantage that the solution is known (to at least one person) and can be checked. Anyone capable of solving the 340 will be able to solve Ray's cipher without much trouble.
Keep up the good efforts. -obiwan
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw1.ciw.edu - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:41 pm:|
Lapumo, Ray: What about making a FAQ (Frequently Asked Question list) for the ciphers, especially for would-be solvers? Perhaps Tom could devote a section of this site to FAQ's. There is a pool of effort and interest in solving the ciphers that should be channeled. Unfortunately I'm not up to the task right now.
|By Ray N (Ray_N) (dialup-188.8.131.52.dial1.detroit1.level3.net - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 06:14 am:|
Kendra amazed me with the partial keys she sent me for my cipher. She had about 10 or 12 letters grouped with most of their symbols correctly. Not only that, she didn't have a single one wrong. She almost had enough to solve the secondary codes. I was really scratching my head for a while. Then I didn't hear from her anymore. Point being, this is a very solvable cipher, and/or Kendra is an amazing codebreaker!
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-76.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 03:26 pm:|
Pax wrote "The first line broke(to me )completley
then I had problems with some of the subsequent lines"
This is the point I was making.As the first line contains 17 different symbols it is possible to
put just about anything you like in there.
I think its much better to start in strings where symbols are repeated.
Actually I have often wondered if we might be better off excluding the first five or six lines to begin with.
Zodiac uses something like 55 different symbols in the first few lines. Effectively he was in charge here and dictating how and where the symbols were used.After that though, there is evidence of sequencing, in other words the underlying message was dictating the order of symbols.
Obiwan,that's not a bad idea, its up to Tom.
I'm sure we all have some material and ideas that we have been working on independently.
|By Bargle (pcp03606092pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 06:08 pm:|
I'd like to see an FAQ on the cipher(s). If there is one started, could it be put in the public section so everyone can contribute and ask questions? I've been trying my hand at the 340 for a few weeks and haven't gotten anywhere. Having no repeated symbols in the first line makes it very difficult to use it as a starting point. I think it would help if we could bounce ideas off each other.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (pool-151-197-32-171.phil.east.verizon.net - 22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 03:29 am:|
I've tried plugging in the values from the three-part, and got an interesting result
on line two, which deciphers as:
EEELNLNLNEU**SDH [*=no equivalent in three-part]
To my way of thinking, this is far too many "E" and "LN" combinations to pass simply as coincidence. I'm thinking that perhaps the solution set to the 340 has some relationship with the three-part.
|By Tony Meoli (rch11.gtwy.uscourts.gov - 126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:18 pm:|
Off the record, there are many debunking your code breaking skills, but I have to say, it is pretty darn good. Sure it sounds convoluted, but have you eever read what Manson, Mullin, Kemper or half the other SK from CA do for fun! I think you did a great job, while we try to figure out another way to knock you down. This is half the problem with crimes like these, everyone wants to be the hero. Too bad there can only be one.
|By TonyMeoli (rch11.gtwy.uscourts.gov - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:25 pm:|
Does anyone seem to notice a tremendous amount of names actually spelled out in this cipher. Dolly, Tony, Tom, Jill??? Also, we are assuming the 340 cipher begins with "H." It may be turned over and begin with "+" just as easily. These letters were obviously written while the Zodiac was writing upside down or in a mirror.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p51-237.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 01:50 pm:|
Just for the record, Pax asked both pubically and privately for opinions and comments on his solution.Any comments made related only to his methods /solution and nobody was attempting to "knock him down" personally.
Doug, That's interesting, is that as far as you went? Not that anyone did but I would have assumed
your suggestion would have been among one of the first things attempted.Not that that makes any difference. I think someone suggested one time that the last line of the first might be a key to the 340!
A technical point that may go to determining Zodiac's sophistication in relation to codes/ciphers.He uses both words to define what he has given us. Technically a code is defined as substitution at a level of words or phrases, whereas a cipher is defined at a level of letters.
I wonder if this means he did not know the difference or he used both?
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (pool-141-151-92-105.phil.east.verizon.net - 220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 02:43 pm:|
Lapumo, I did the other lines as well, but nothing jumped out at me as the second one
did. There were lots of sequences that looked like they might have been anagramming, but
nothing you could really hang your hat on.
I think he used the terms "code" and "cipher" the way any uninformed layman might, as being interchangeable.
|By J Eric (J_Eric) (dialup-18.104.22.168.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net - 22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:26 pm:|
PAX, an interesting effort so far, but the words falling into place seem to make
little sense. I've always maintained that the 340 must convey a specific plot; why would Z
risk exposure through decoding just over some random ravings? I was hoping for an exact
street address for a future killing, but instead got a weird chemical bomb threat when I
turned the message on its side. My theory is, if the 340 runs two ways rather like a
crossword puzzle, one cannot get too "creative" in substituting letters/
characters, such as A standing for several letters or even a symbol.
But, keep up your work on it, because who knows--YOU might just be the one to arrive at a solution that can be validated.
|By Bargle (pcp03606092pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net - 126.96.36.199) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 03:21 pm:|
J Eric wrote PAX, an interesting effort so far, but the words falling into place
seem to make little sense.
This is something that has bothered me about the solutions we've seen from everyone so far. The phrasing just doesn't sound like Z's to me. In reviewing Z's known messages, I couldn't find any place where he used 'hello' in any of his messages. It isn't impossible that he would start this message with that word but, it strikes me as unlikely.
Tony M wrote: It may be turned over and begin with "+" just as easily.
When arranged this way the cipher ends with 'REH'.
Possibly 'Robert Emmet the Hippi" or if we take out the middle letter 'E' we're left with 'RH', the 2 initials used as the signature on the Riverside desktop poem.
Is this significant? Probably not, but, it just shows the kinds of stuff you can find in this thing if you look hard enough.
|By PAX (cache-dh03.proxy.aol.com - 188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 06:33 pm:|
Great feed back and many thanx for your incisive and complimentary remarks.... I am still working on it, because it's a possible solution and i haven't quit. I think it began with Hello, because i felt zodiac would suspect that everyone would think he would start off with his catch-phrase, "this is the zodiac speaking." I also felt that zodiac had to jam in some words to fit the 17 across pattern he set with the code. Now, with the fine sharpness of the comments, I went back to work and started again this time with the words i pulled out. Now, I know this code will not be solved by binary data (that is, its all one thing or all another), nor by a 1-for-1 substitution code.Strangely, this research has led me to another question. Did zodiac ever demand a ransom ? Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By Bargle (pcp03606092pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 07:34 pm:|
PAX, I also think he wouldn't start with his catch phrase. He didn't use it on his
first cipher so I don't think he would on his second one. Also it isn't necessary since
the code came with one of his messages, so he didn't need to say it twice. It would waste
a lot of letters in a relatively short message and make it somewhat easy to solve. I've
been trying some of the phrases he uses just after writing 'This is the Zodiac speaking'
but, so far I haven't gotten anywhere.
Another random observation; in lines 18 and 19 there are 2 more British expressions. 'Posh' in 18 and 'yob' in 19. Again, probably no importance.
Keep at it PAX!
|By Ed N. (Ed_N) (acc1e384.ipt.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 09:22 pm:|
I think it began with Hello, because i felt zodiac would suspect that everyone would think he would start off with his catch-phrase, "this is the zodiac speaking."
Just curious, but did you actually try his catch-phrase and see if anything came of it?
|By PAX (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 07:04 pm:|
Hello all, Dear Ed, I tried it at the bottom on line 20 no luck.......Dear Bargle, thanx I am keeping at it, hammering away....Oh, the reason I asked about a ransom demand was this: in the movie Dirty Harry, the killer is supposedly patterned after zodiac, right down to the style of writing. During the movie, the killer (Andy Robinson) makes a demand for money or he will keep killing. Made me curious. Sincerely, PAX1222@aol.com
|By Bargle (pcp03606092pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 08:44 pm:|
I had tried the using the catch phrase early on when I tried to deciphering the 340. I
tried it using 3 different arrangements of the cipher.
1. The original version as sent by Z.
2. Reversed left to right.
3. Reversed left to right and top to bottom. I've been refering to this as inverted, though I'm not sure that is the correct term. I also tried a couple of other arrangements but I'm not sure which ones. I made up a bunch of different arrangements but, I'm currently limiting my trials to these 3 until I feel I've exhausted their possibilities. I couldn't get anything that took me very far. The main problem has to do with letter frequencies and combinations. Before going further let me pass along something that may help others working on this cipher. I did a letter count on many of the Z letters. I mostly avoided the Mikado references he used because I felt these wouldn't be indicative of his natural way of writing since he was paraphrasing someone else. I counted over 6600 letters and came up with these frequencies per 1000. I had to round off in places so I don't think these add up to exactly 1000 but are a useful guide to Z's personal letter frequency I believe.
In theory the 340 cipher should have about 1/3 of these totals in the deciphered message but, in a message as short as this, the numbers will be off somewhat I'm sure. End Part 1
|By Bargle (pcp03606092pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net - 126.96.36.199) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 08:49 pm:|
And now Part 2
Trying to use "This is the Zodiac Speaking" as the starting phrase brings up these problems.
1. The letter 'Z' comes up too often. The letter freq. list shows that 'Z' should show up only once. Trying the phrase on each of the 3 versions I've been using has 'Z' showing up 5 times on the orig. layout, 6 times on the reversed layout, and 4 times on the inverted layout.
In the orig. layout the + sign becomes K. The + sign occurs 24 times in the cipher, yet the letter freq. list leads me expect to see it only about 4 times.
I also run into odd groups of letters that I can't make into sensible words. Things like gkeo and oa_ikt.
Anyway, I think that's enough for now. Good luck and I hope this helps others.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-51.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 188.8.131.52) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 08:40 am:|
Good work Bargle and thanks for posting.I have been working along the same lines for a
The sample I took was not as large as yours,I concentrated on 10 letters that were closest in length to the 340.
My intention was to get the average frequency breakdowns as an aid to solving the 340.Of course as you have already pointed out this can be deceptive and we can only rely on it so much.However it was a worthwhile exercise an did throw up a few interesting statistics.
While there were a few instances where these communications threw up a few statistics that went against the grain,so to speak,there was a consistent pattern.(And the "glitches" in question were explainable").
The main point being that Zodiacs english does throw up different frequency patterns when compared against "the standard".
The accepted standard is as follows( I will only take the top 10);-
E-12.7%, T-9.1%,A-8.2%,0- 7.5%,I-7%,N-6.7%,S-6.3%,H-6.1%,R-6%,L-4%.E,T,A,O,I,N,S,H,R,L.
Zodiac however uses many shorter words and does like to talk about himself, so perhaps the difference is understandable.
Taking the 10 communications as above the averages throw up the folowing:-
We can see that the letter "i" has jumped to second place and also the high "L" count is accounted for with he frequent use of words like, Shall,Will, Kill etc.
Again, not something we can rely on,however if we sub these frequency statistic averages into the 340.The letter counts would be as follows;-
That's not to say that Zodiac uses every letter in the alphabet within this cipher.It may also be the case that the odd individual letter might have a higher or lower count depending on the message.It might be advantageous though to look for symbols he uses only once and try building from there.
|By Hammer (adsl-67-36-213-118.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 08:49 am:|
One problem that I have always had with the cipher
solutions is why are all the solutions in a sort of choppy, staccato wordings. Zodiac's letters were not written in this manner; therefore, if his code was 'crackproof' why not simply encode his typical writing style????
|By dave lowe (152.gardena-12rh16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 10:38 pm:|
albatross stands for a vinyl record in the u.k i have found out some very interesting things,jmho.the dripping pen card is not a pen it looks like a whale side ways and has the look of a ship drawn on it.tom i hope you recived my email.have not heard from you.i have found this to be one great site.thanks tom
|By George (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:21 am:|
Due to minimal brain damage, probably caused by alcohol (started drinking when I was
eleven) I am not qualified to solve any code or cipher which involves geometry-level or
Still, I have read enough about the 340 code to have a somewhat educated opinion based upon what others have written on the subject.
I'm still fifty-fifty concerning whether or not
the 340 code was meant to convey information, or is dressed-up gibberish. I'm beginning to lean more toward gibberish. If it's a real code, I'd love to see it cracked, of course. But consider one thing. (This is an extension of the general belief that even if real and solved there will be no "smoking gun.")
The 340 code was mailed on 11/8/69. Zodiac was at his dappled, depraved pinnacle during this time. I do not for one second think he would have risked giving away any information in this code which would have jeopardized his freedom. No arcana, nothing. (Ignite flame-throwers now.)
I'm sure it's been said before, but the only Zodiac ciphers which have been cracked are the ones he wanted to be cracked. William Occam be praised! (But don't quit trying to crack 340 or the others. I would love to see them cracked and would then gladly eat my large share of crow
|By George (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:47 am:|
Hammer: It may well only be a matter of semantics, but plenty of Zodiac's letters seem
choppy to me. ("And I can't do a thing with it!" from the Dripping Pen card
gives me a case of the willies!) The only cipher solutions I'm aware of
are those of 7/31/69; the "Chronicle," "Examiner," and "Times-Herald" triptych. These solved ciphers are more coherent to me than at least half of Z's letters. Poor grammar in these solved ciphers, yes, but not difficult to understand; they read a little like an old-fashioned telegram.