Did the Zodiac really give his name?
Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Ciphers: Did the Zodiac really give his name?
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p174.as1.virginia1.eircom.net - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 04:18 pm:|
Hi Board Members,
I am posting my findings and theory on the above matter here for discussion and may be reproduced within the Board for that purpose.
To be honest,I am not as confident as I was this time last week on my findings.There is a possible flaw that I did not originally see,however this may be a question of interpretation.I am convinced that I have something for serious consideration.It
would take someone of much greater experience and broader knowledge of this case than I to evaluate the likelihood of the scenario I am about to put forward.If I am to do this any justice I feel it necessary to explain in full my reasons for following this course and each of the perceived clues that led me to the final outcome.
One of the most tantalizing questions in this case
has got to be Did Zodiac really give his real name in his messages?Like everyone else I had my own thoughts on Zodiac,I must admit I did not have a favorite suspect,but the one thing I think most agree with on Zodiac is his belief that he was superior to everyone else.This combined with his determination to prove this, especially to law enforcement,made this question straightforward for me,Yes.As to whether I have that name or not,I still believe Zodiac's name is in here somewhere,in fact I think it's something he could not have resisted.
I think Zodaic,whoever he was, wanted to get as close as possible to this case,if he was not an insider I always felt that he would be someone already under suspicion.The ultimate high for this guy would be sitting across the desk from detectives both knowing "that each other knew".This is something he may have even prepared for.Anyway that's only my opinion and it was the basis for my theory.However if you buy into this theory thre may be a twist at the end.
What I am proposing is that Zodiac not only gave his real name but showed us where to find it and how to decipher it.Mabye the best way to sum up right now would be to say,this is here if you want to see it and if you don't, it not.
I followed what I perceived to be Clues,cryptic and otherwise and also what could best be described as "peculiar moves"by Zodiac.All I am offering is my interpretation of those.
To begin with I will start with the letters of November 1969.The first on nov.8 contained the "dripping pen" card and also the 340 cipher.I have found no link to my theory in any of these.
What struck me as peculiar is that Zodiac posted again the following day.On the 9th he posted his 7 page letter.This was the first time he did this.I asked myself why? was he drawing attention to something?Why not do all his posting on the same day? Just as a suggestion,maybe the first post was a "fake Clew"and the important information was in the second.What I would ask you to hold on to for now is that this second letter was posted on the 9th and in this letter Zodiac claimed 7 victims.
Melvin Belli Letter
Zodiac's next letter was to Attorney Melvin Belli
When Zodiac spoke of killing victim's no.9 and possibly 10 questions were raised.Where was no.8?Did he kill and not advertise? I do not think so.In a later letter he calimed to have shot a guy in a car,it's highly questionable as to whether he killed at all.However if he did his boasting did not stop.Was he referring to CJB?It would be another 2 years before he would claim responsibility for that.Again we have a Connection with No.9 in odd circumstances.
My name is Cipher
Zodiac's next letter was the "my name is cipher"
It was posted exactly 4 months to the day after the Melvin Belli letter.We all know that Zodiac liked to post on anniversary's.Was there something important between this and his last letter? Could there be a clue in the Belli letter that would help decipher the my name is code?I looked and found nothing.What I am again suggesting is that the cipher is a false clue.The important information here I suggest is that this was Zodiac's 9th letter and in it he mentioned giving his name.
This is now the third time in a row the number 9 has come up in relation to Zodiac messages.I felt there was a connection which involved giving his name but as yet could not see it.
Your Secret pal
The next important letter came on 27 of october 1970.Of the ones in between I have found no link to this theory.Again 27 is a multiple of 9.Also
2+7=9.The clue this time was a little more obvious.It was the halloween card which spoke directly of clueing us in.Inside,something else that was odd.Zodaic was seemingly claiming 14 victims however in another reference to victims-"the Eyes" counted only 13.Also on the card was the words Paradice slaves written in the form of a cross.Was Zodiac showing us the form his name would Appear in,or a clue that would lead to his name? Was the "paradice"(incorrectly spelled)a kind of symbolic representation of sorts on how
his name would Appear?
The Exorcist Letter
Again there have been other communications between
the last letter discussed and this.I have found no connection to this theory.What I had to date I thought was a link to Zodiac giving his name and the number 9 and also how the name/message would appear.What I was looking for now was where to look.I think the "exorcist Letter" gave me that link.The letter itself comes in 4 distinct parts
This whole letter convinced me that Zodiac was pointing straight back to the Melvin Belli Letter.
The link to the exorcist was clear reference to "this thing inside me".Also those who have seen this film will remember the "help me" appearing on the girl's stomach during the film.
The verse from the mikado I also associated with the Belli letter.He plunged himself into a billowy wave.It spoke of a sucicide of sorts.If you plunge into a billowy wave you drown.Belli letter--Please help I am drowning. For a guy with such an interest in the Mikado he manages to misquote.he says tit willow, tit willo, tit willo.
The actual line is "oh willo titwillo titwillo.
I felt he deliberately wanted to have a repitition
and in the Belli Letter he asks for help 3 times.
I also noted how he wrote tit willo, as two seperate words and I also think there is a connection to the name.Judge for yourselves.Of further note the next lines to that verse in the Mikado are
Now I feel sure just as sure as I am that my name
Isn't willo titwillo titwillo.
Again we have reference to a name.
The rest of this letter is straightforward
the threat unless.....
the signature in the form of a symbol.
However what may be important is the "bodycount" set at 37. 3+7=10
MELVIN BELLI LETTER
I was sure at this stage or thought I was that it was here his name would be found.But for a long time could not figure it.I had posted earlier about this letter in another thread about the problem I had with this.I somehow could not reconcile the apparent plea for help with the detail about the bomb.I was not sure but this letter seemed disjointed in a way I could not put my finger on.Then I remembered one of the oldest and easiest ways of encoding messages,and that was to count the letters at the beginning of sentences and after punctuation marks.Now here is where I made my mistake.Before I go there let me point out two more things in this letter first.
If my theory is correct Zodiac mentions 9 and possibly 10.The word "complet" obviously complete
is crossed out for no apparent reason.There's no incorrect spelling.Was Zodiac telling us something.
I now rewrote the important parts of the letter as sentences.My genuine mistake was splitting the opening one in two.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
1 t h i s i s t h E z o d
2.i w i s h y o u A h a p
3.t h e o n e t h I n g i
4.p l e a s e h e L p m e
5.i c a n n o t r E a c h
6.i a m f i n d i N g i t
7.p l e a s e h e L p m e
8.a t t h e m o m E n t
9 b u t i f i h o L d b
10p l e a s e h e L p m e
Counting out 9 letters after each punctuation
you have EAILENLELL,when unscrambled
you are left with
The final solution is lee Allen il help me.
What it basically boils down to is a question of odds and what we would expect to find.I think possibly this is a valid solution,Yes I have broken the first sentence into two.But is that what it was.Maybe This is the Zodiac speaking was an introduction and was intended that way.Maybe Zodiac hinted about this but was not willing to give his name in blatant way.For now at least there are too many coincidences in this for me not to believe this isn't at least close.
SEAN O BRIEN COPYRIGHT C 2001.ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
THIS MATERIAL MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED IN ANY WAY WITHOUT WRITTEN CONSENT.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p174.as1.virginia1.eircom.net - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 04:23 pm:|
Please forgive any errors above I had a lot of problems with my computer tonight and had to start this a couple of times.My intention was to clean it up at the end but I was unable to do it.
|By Alan Cabal (Alan) (spider-ta031.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 05:49 pm:|
That's really good work, Sean.
|By Jennifer (Jackyl1) (68.gst.ont.cyberg8t.com - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 11:21 pm:|
Holy crapinoli, Lapumo!! That's really good. I am impressed with your patience and critical thinking, honestly. I think you may have something there, really. Someone may have had to figure it out eventually, why not you? Jenn
|By Eduard Versluijs (Eduard) (i0502.pvu.euronet.nl - 184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 01:15 am:|
It sure was worth waiting for, Sean.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p130.as1.virginia1.eircom.net - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 10:45 am:|
I have asked Glen Claston,if he would not mind giving a critical opinion on the above
theory and findings and subsequently if I could post his reply here.I thank him greatly
for his response on both.
Glen-Quote-"It seems like a reasonable enough theory,and you've done very little manipulation,which works in you favour.To tell the truth,I don,t know how to calculate the odds on acrostics.It has to do with language and frequency occurrences,but I've never seen anybody try to figure out what the chances are.
I would point out on the dark side that over 200 instances of Bacon's name have been discovered in Shakespeare plays.My criticism of this is that no instances of Verulam or Viscount nor even Albans have been discovered.A friend of mine is going through looking for instances of his own name and has been quiet successful!
I would suppose that the only way you'll ever know if you are right is if the Ciphers ever get solved.Critism other than that is not warranted,except for the possibility that Allen would not have used the name LEE,but of this I'm not sure.I do remember that he had aliases,and it would serve you well to inquire as to what name he used to sign papers,etc."
|By Bryan (The_Giant) (18.104.22.168) on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 12:36 pm:|
I am in total awww. That is one hell of a job.
|By Glen Claston (Glen_Claston) (crtntx1-ar5-036-189.elnk.dsl.gtei.net - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 07:01 pm:|
I gave you permission to quote me, not misspell me! :-)
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p95.as2.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 11:54 pm:|
My apologies,welcome back.
|By Penser (Penser) (cache1.burgoyne.com - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 07:12 am:|
Ladies and Gentlemen:I must say, I am impressed! That there are people out there looking into every nook-and-cranny of the Zodiac murders, and doing it well and in an open forum, is overwhelming. Congratulations!!!I am just a country boy, with one foot still in the furrow, but by luck, and a hell-of-a-lot of work, managed to get a Degree in Aeronautical Engineering, worked hard for many years and am now retired. I have always done a lot of reading - mostly spy novels, mysteries, who-donits, real-crime novels, etc., from Sherlock Holmes to modern stories. Always love a mystery, and this Zodiac thing has fascinated me from the very beginning. With that as short sketchy background, I would like to make a few comments. (Some of the things I am going to say may have already been covered - I have not yet had time to read ALL of the voluminous material. Sorry about that, Chief.)CHERL JO BATESI believe the Zodiac had nothing to do with this murder. This based upon comparing the handwriting in the 'Riverside Desk-Top Poem' with the handwriting in the letters known to be originated by Zodiac.If you check the small letter "d" in each of those writings you will see the Zodiac "d" is very different and repetitive. So, I concur with the conclusions reached by the Riverside Police Department. No connection, and the Bates letter Number 1 is a hoax.!!WHO WAS/IS ZODIAC(This could develop into a long dissertation. I will try to cut to the chase.) He may not be a genius, but he ain't no dummy. Probably better than an average IQ (say 110 to 115), with some level of education above High School. What is fascinating is his interest in and use of codes. Where and how did he develop this interest and just how did he become so proficient? (He certainly has had a lot of people and agencies groping and confused as to what he is saying.) I suggest he got his interest from reading. Reading what, you say? I would be surprised if he got any knowledge from such esoteric books such as the 1906, limited edition, no longer in print, book mentioned by Glen Claston in his message of September 01, 2000 -09:56 pm. Rather, I think he had more prosaic sources. One such source could be from the magazine - Scientific American.Scientific American, at one time, had a section containing mathematical puzzles and codes and the like. Because of his interests, education, etc., Zodiac may have been a subscriber to that magazine during the years from 1965 to 1970. It might be iuseful if a list of SA subscribers in the Walnut Creek, Vallejo, California area (Say 15 - 20 mile area of zip codes.) could be generated for those years. I would also include a listing of subscribers that lived in about a square mile area of San Francisco surrounding the Stine murder. I do not know how many people subscribe to Scientific American, but in such a small area I would guess not more than say 500 and in all probably closer to about 150, and mostly the lists would be repetitive. What good would such lists do? Well, when someone comes up with a potential name, (Robin O'Neal??) it would be another filter to pass through and who knows, someone might get a 'hit'.RADIANS, INCHES & BOMBSWhen you were younger, were you ever asked by your peers, the question - 'Railroad Crossing without any bars, can you spell it without any r's'?? The first time asked, you may have been caught but, you can spell 'it' without any r's. Also, I am sure you all remember reading or seeing in a Class B detective movie the scene where someone comes into the room carrying a tray with clue items on it and asks the question 'How many items do you see'?? Everyone in the room say they see eight items but, the hero and super sleuth states he can see nine items. Every one is aghast that our super hero cannot count, until he points out he also sees the tray as the ninth item. I am sure that many of you have taken exams where some of the questions throw in a lot of extraneous (and useless) information just to throw you off the track to the right answer. The point is things are not always what they seem to be and sometimes a little tricky.As to bombs, I bet if I asked the question 'What is a bomb'?, most of you would stereotype it as an explosive mechanical type of a device - something that if detonated would cause physical damage! Hey, actors have 'bombed'! Many of you have worked on projects that 'bombed' (failed) while you were working on them. Or last night you were 'bombed' (intoxicated) out of your mind. Is there a message here?Now as to Zodiac and his threat to blow up a bus load of school children. I am sure this was a viable threat. For sure it got the attention of a lot of people. Subsequently, he wrote a short letter referring to Radians, Inches and Bombs, with a map included. (I have not read that letter.) Is it possible this letter was full of extraneous and useless information - a ruse to throw problem solvers off the real answer? Then he wrote a short crypto saying 'My name is .....AEN(Z-sign)8K8M8YNAM'. Could this last short crypto be referring back to the Radians/Inches/Bomb letter? Could he simply be saying 'Look at Radians and Inches and you will find a bomb'. i.e., , Radians and Inches are anagrams of my name!!! Was he being clever (I am smarter than you.) by shoving the answer right under our collective noses? Someone, somewhere in these message boards said he thought Zodiac was trying to cover up a mistake. Could the Radians/Inches/bomb letter be his mistake? Thanks for your time.Penser
|By Penser (Penser) (cache1.burgoyne.com - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 07:14 am:|
Okay, so how do I post a message that has paragraph structure? sheeesh
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p77.as2.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 08:04 am:|
thanks for the input,you do raise a lot of interesting points,especially with regard to "American Scientific".I for one,believe Zodiac is right here under our noses.On the down side you
have just given me another 2000 angles to explore
|By Linda (Linda) (207-172-73-36.s36.tnt1.fdk.md.dialup.rcn.com - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 02:57 pm:|
I know at least one suspect whose mother started him out with Scientific American by
reading it to him when he was a little guy... in lieu of nursery rhymes. Ted Kaczynski.
Additionally, there's no question that Ted was well versed in higher mathematics; not only
as an assistant professor of mathematics at Berkley but through his published papers on
the Unit Circle and others. Based on this, there's no question he understood the use of
radians and, of course, we know his "familiarity" with bombs. TK also enjoyed
being "clever." He's shown it in his writings, his speech and his actions.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (212.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 04:04 pm:|
As the Unabomber, one of Kaczynski's messages went right to Scientific American. It was one of his favorite things to read.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p188.as1.clonmel1.eircom.net - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 11:31 am:|
Just thinking "out loud" so to speak,I had a
thought on Zodiac's 13 letter code.I suppose the main question here goes to his level of sophistication as far as ciphers are concerned.
If there is a genuine message encrypted here then
I see only two alternatives on how it may be deciphered.
1.This is a simple substitution cipher solved by replacing the characters used with letters,giving us a straightforward message or anagram.
The problem with this (and I am going to contradict myself here),is the limitless amount of possibilities.Especially when we consider that more than I symbol could have been used for an individual letter.On the other hand, if taken at face value and each symbol represents an individual letter,then we are left with only 8 letters to find as some of the symbols are repeated.I suspect,in this case,(given the limited amount of names)that experts could stumble across the right one.
2.The second possibility is that we are missing
"the key".That somewhere contained in another of Zodiac's communications there is a key that would enable us to decipher this code.
What Zodiac would then have to do is "clue us in"
on where to look!
I do not have the answer to that ,just a suggestion.Perhaps I am on the right track and someone else out there might improve on this idea.
Is there something in this letter and code that may point in a particular direction?
Thinking along these lines,this is what I came up with.....
Firstly, the letter opens with.."BY THE WAY HAVE YOU CRACKED THE LAST CIPHER I SENT YOU?
MY NAME IS-"
Here is a clear reference to Zodiac's first cipher and one which I picked up on.Please also consider that Zodiac said in an earlier letter that we would have him when we cracked the first code.At this point he must have been under the impression that this remained unsolved and perhaps felt confident enough to clue us in again
as he later did with the Bomb cipher.
But if "the key" is here where do we look?
That brings me on to the 13 character cipher itself....
I think what stood out for all of us here was the three taurus symbols.I wondered if the key was
finding a sequence of letters that would correspond in some way to these.At the end of the first cipher you have 18 extra letters.These have been over millions of times without success.I also suspect,going back to a point I made earlier,
that it was a combination of this cipher and the 13 character code where the FBI came up with
among others Alan Shanahan,Adam Shanahan etc..ergo
the amount of names was limited.
Just to illustrate:-
E--O--R-- I --E--T--E--M--E--T--H--H--P
It is interesting to see the taurus symbols (8's) line up with the E's from the section of 18 letters,also the HM lines up perfectly,even the inverted T(£) in the 13 code can be associated with the T from the last line in the first cipher.
I have always felt that this cipher has not been fully solved.There is another aspect of this cipher that bothers me and that's the misspellings.
I can understand Paradise being spelled with a "C"
and animal being spelled Anamal.However, what does make me take notice is dangerous spelled "dangeroue" with an E at the end.Ive always thought there was something here and also to have 2 incorrect spellings on the same line.
This sequence of letters can also be lined up with the "13 code".
R--O--U-- E --A--N--A--M--A--L--O--F--L
Again we can see the similarities when compared to the last illustration.Again the 8's line up
this time with the letter A.Again the M's line up.This time the inverted T can be associated with the L.
Did Zodiac misspell on purpose?
What I found most interesting is that both sets of 13 letters/characters contain an anagram of NAME!.
While I have not exhausted all the anagrams contained within,some of which are there include:-
While I do not create bias on the part of any particular person..I did come up with...
O!A NAME FOR U ALA
|By Ray N (Ray_N) (user-38ldfep.dialup.mindspring.com - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:00 pm:|
I've got to tell you, this is some really great work here. It's not just patent theorizing chit chat, it's honest to god new, creative, investigative input. I just don't think I can express how poignant your observations seem. I've never put much stock in numerology in general, but in the case of Zodiac one can't deny his use of it. This begs the question, why? Obviously, there was some point to it, otherwise why bother?
I have followed the cipher angle for a while and this is the first effort I have seen make some real apparent progress. Keep it up...
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p16.as1.clonmel1.eircom.net - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 01:37 am:|
Thanks Ray.I do not know what's here but maybe
I am on the right track,I don't know.I do not offer the final solution as the answer,like I've said,perhaps someone can add to or improve on it.
The most important thing for me in this ,is that on 3 separate occasions Zodiac has put a sequence of Letters/Symbols together(in unusual circumstances)that seem have a connection.It seems to be more than coincidental!.The problem,I fear,as with my first post on this thread,is that ALA is mentioned.It's an examination of the route followed and connections made which is most important.I may have added the right numbers and came up with the wrong total.
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw1.ciw.edu - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 08:13 pm:|
Above, Lapumo presents the beginnings of a theory for identifying
Zodiac's name amoungst the Letters Z wrote to the press, etc. Apperently this theory has
been developed further, but the details of the improved theory are not yet public. In the
interest of better understanding the theory, as we have it now, I present it below in step
by step form, to the best of my understanding. Lapumo, if any of the following steps are
not part of your theory, please feel free to correct me. For want of a better name, I will
call this theory the Lapumo Multi-Letter Theory.
Lapumo Multi-Letter Theory
0.) The premise of the theory is that Zodiac deliberately supplyed clues throughout several letters, which when assembled, would allow his name to be revealed. The method to be used to find his name is the following:
1.) Focus on several, perhaps a half dozen of the Z. letters. Disregard the remaining letters as fake clues, or (as yet) unrelated to the theory.
2.) Amongst these chosen letters, identify a "special number", which appears repeatedly. The number can come from either the victim count,
the day of the month of the mailing, or the sequential number (ie ninth) out of the ~20 total zodiac communications (The number 9 is identified by Lapumo as appearing, in various contexts in the Z. letters he focuses on)
3.) Chose an encipherment technique which utilizes this "special number". (Lapumo chooses the technique of looking 9 characters after each mark
of punctuation for a special number of 9)
4.) Pick one of the ~20 Zodiac letters as THE LETTER which actually contains his name, based on clues the other letters.
5.) Apply your chosen encipherment technique, using your chosen "special number" to your chosen Zodiac letter to derive a string of characters.
6.) Anagram this string of characters to see if it contains a name.
Lapumo has shown that this process can be used to produce the character string: LI LEE ALLEN, which is similar the name of suspect ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN in that the last name is perfectly matched, the middle name is homophonically matched, and the first name is not matched at all.
If this is an accurate presentation of the theory stated above then we could, as Lapumo requests, try to determine the odds of producing such a name using such a method (but perhaps making different choices of "special number", "special letter" etc.)
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-166.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 09:20 am:|
The message is Lee Allen il Help me(as in ill or sick).Hence the deleted word "complet".He had no reason to delete this word as it was spelled correctly to this point.My view is that he was telling us the the message would be incomplete.Interesting also to compare the final message with the overall theme of the letter. Zodiac asking for help because he cannot contol himself.He is ill or sick.It is not a case of Lee being homophonically matched to leigh. Allen actually used this spelling also.When he worked at that hardware store LEE was actually the way it was spelled on his name tag.
Furthermore,this is not some methodology that I made up myself.This is a proven method and one of the earliest forms of cryptology or secret writing.
It's called a Concealment cipher.Many examples can be found on the web.
Zodiac used ciphers and codes.I do not see it as a stretch that he would include one you had to figure out for yourself.
Remember too that this letter is totally out of place when compared to other letters.
Zodiac showed no remorse either before or after this letter.Even the experts who have examined this letter cast doubt on whether he was being genuine.One in particular even goes as far as to suggest it may have been forged.
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw1.ciw.edu - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 01:59 am:|
Thanks for the clarification, Lapumo. I guess I'm still unclear on how the entire
message, LEE ALLEN IL HELP ME is derived.
I clearly see how LEE ALLEN IL is derived by taking the 9th letter after each punctuation mark in the Belli Letter (once a period has been inserted between "speaking" and "I") But, using this method of taking the 9th letter after a punctuation mark I don't see how you come up with H,E,L,P,M,E....there just aren't enough sentances in the Belli Letter for that. I'm guessing then that to get the HELP ME part of the message, you are then are extracting the text from the letter directly, right? (HELPME appears several times in the letter.) It seems like the sole purpose of including HELPME in the secret message is to explain the 2 unexplained letters "IL" which you interpret as ILL.
Here's some other points:
--I didn't suggest you made up the method of concealment cipher. It is one of many known encipherment methods. An alternative theory to yours could choose a different encipherment technique, or even a different kind of concealment cipher (ie 9th letter after the word "I", etc.)
--Question: I'm sorry. I don't see how "COMPLET" (crossed out) has any bearing on your solution because this text occurs more than 9 characters after the previous punctuation mark "right. But if". Or do you assume that we are to add another punctuation mark which did not explicitly appear in the original letter. (one could invision adding a period after "no" or a comma after "nine", but this would really be doctoring the text ) Could you please list all punctuation marks that need to be added to this letter, as we see it, to achieve the solution "LEEALLENILHELPME".
--Incidentally, to me there is a CLEAR reason why "complet" is crossed out: Because it does not say what Zodiac intended. Had he said "I will lose complete control", this would mean that he would still partially be in control, just not completely. What he meant to say, (which he realized in mid sentance) was that he would Completely lose control. However rather than rewrite the letter which he had so carefully written in disguised hand writing, he changed the wording to reflect his true meaning: "I will loose all control". This suggests the author was the kind of person who chose his words carefully, almost academically, to mean just what he intended.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (153.philadelphia-18-19rs.pa.dial-access.att.net - 126.96.36.199) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 05:40 am:|
Obiwan, I know you've taken a look at Kaczynski as a suspect (as well as for other
reasons) and you might find it interesting to know that there are places in his original
writings where he makes a correction (sometimes lengthy) for the sake of accuracy.
Consider the following snippet from his "autobiography." He begins: "The
back half of the house where I roomed during my fifth year at Michigan consisted of [large
strikeout deletion occurs here] an apartment occupied by a bunch of rowdy jocks."
The wording of the deleted section goes "of a bunch of rowdy jocks who belonged to the hockey team." It's obvious what his intention was here. The back half of a house, literally, can't consist of a bunch of rowdy jocks, because the back half of a house is made out of wood, drywall and other building materials; not human beings. He spots this, and rather than let it go, as most people would, he feels inclined to correct it, so that the back house consists of an "apartment," which is physically and logically possible.
This may look like an excessive cause of Freudian "anality" (if such a term exists) but I think that kind of mindset is absolutely essential for a mathematician of Kaczynski's abilities.
David Kaczynski remarked that his brother had once taken him to task for not being a "cool-headed logician."
That said, and returning to the topic at hand, I'm inclined to think that any decipherment of codes is going to be suspect if it involves anagramming. That goes for my own solution of the 13-symbol cipher, which by many accounts is simple, elegant and logical.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p50-97.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 09:49 am:|
This goes back to the way I approached things.I had formed the opinion that the number 9 was significant and that the message uncovered would resemble the "Paradice Slaves" layout in the Halloween card."I feel it in my bones you ache to know my name and so I'll clue you in".This was before I had any name
or knew where to look.The "help me" crosses the line of the encryption 3 times, right on the same letter L.(See original post).I see that as significant.
Including "Help me" in the message had honestly nothing to do with reading "il" as ill.Of course you have every right to label them as "unexplained" at this point,in the absence of other evidence.However there is a reason for this message to be left apparently "incomplete".If that proves to be the case,then I see the inclusion of the additional clue "complet" meaning incomplete as being perfectly logical.
I find your interpretation of it's use to be six of one and half a dozen of another.It's a moot point and I do not see your explanation warranting
the defacing of an otherwise,very neatly printed letter.I do agree with your last point though that he did choose his words very carefully.
Again,on the method of encipherment,I did not "choose it".It was the result of what I deducted before hand.The question is whether or not it was a reasonable deduction.By my way of thinking if you did "choose" another encryption method,you would have to give your reasons for coming up with it in the first place.It's an ongoing agrument on this board with many "solutions" being the result of putting the cart before the horse.It's been a case of let's find a name first and then apply the methodology.
All the punctuation marks are clearly visible,with the exception of the one that should be after the introduction "This is the Zodiac speaking".If you go back to my original post I did admit it was here that I made a mistake.This letter always "bothered me" and some months earlier(before I knew anything about Concealment ciphers)I had placed a punctuation mark(black felt tip pen) on my copy of the letter in Graysmith's book and forgot all about it.At that time I had been going over the previous letters also.The "asking for more details letter" had a full stop after the introduction as did the Stine letter. The Pen card had the introduction seperated from the rest of the text.This was the first time a punctuation/seperation did not appear.When I returned to the letter some time after I did not notice the extra punctuation.As this is a very simple form of encryption
and I believe he did this to give some added protection.However, Ray has discovered something very interesting that does offer a very credible explanation.That's something for another day.
You are most assuredly correct.Anything that involves anagramming is going to have its problems.We are going to be beating around the bush here on several points until such time as this project is viewed in it's entirety.That said,we can judge this on two points.Approved crypto methods have been applied and the "solution" rests on the amount of alternative readings that can be applied to the letters
EAILENLELL. That still is not enough though.If that was the end of things, this would stand beside the other "solutions" and would be up to each individual which one they were persuaded by,if any.Also,in accessing these intiial findings
Glen Claston was of the opinion that finding repititions would add greatly to the validity of this.That's exactly what's been done and much more besides.
As to you own solution Doug,for me it stands as a self contained effort.Personally,I would expect to find a coherent sentence.By that I mean, MY NAME IS.......... Your solution reads MY NAME IS FROM TED KAZCINS.(I may not have the correct spelling of the surname as you uncovered it,trying to remember as best I can)You have not explained how you came to attribute values for the symbols.I do understand where you are coming from with respect to TK not giving a full correct spelling.However it is something I do not agree with.With his ability,I am confident that he could protect a full correct spelling in many more convincing ways.Fact is you do not even have to have his ability to achieve this "protection" while having the satisfaction of knowing that a full correct spelling has been included.Please believe this does not come from any bias toward Allen.It's an honest call on methodology.All that aside,there are several alternate interpretations so technically speaking
My MAME KANE= FROM TED KAZCINS=ARTHUR E NEUMAN.
There are reasons though why I believe this code is based in Math/numbers.I am inclined to believe also that it's not a name.
Anyway,thank you both for your comments.
|By John_W (John_W) (cache-loh-ac05.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 05:16 pm:|
Is it possible that Z was having a laugh? If you take the 13 character cipher to be a
quaint homophonic substitution cipher, it may be seen to read as follows without any
complications, of course as has already been said elsewhere "it may mean
nothing" because there is not enough ciphertext.
A=s E=t N=u +=p 8=i K=d M=m ~=n
My Name is;
stupid im in usm
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw1.ciw.edu - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 06:43 am:|
Thanks again for the explanation Lapumo. I now understand how "COMPLET" fits
into your theory: The anagram derived from the Belli Letter is not complete. You propose
that Z intened to hint at this fact by removing "complete" from the text of this
letter. I still feel my explanation of the strikout of COMPLET is simpler, by Occam's
Razor, but as you point out, this is a matter of personal opinion . Then, just one more
question. You write:
Again,on the method of encipherment,I did not "choose it".It was the result of what I deducted before hand.The question is whether or not it was a reasonable deduction.By my way of thinking if you did "choose" another encryption method,you would have to give your reasons for coming up with it in the first place.
I agree that an encipherment method which is "deduced", based say on previous examples of Z using that method, would be much stronger than any method which is "chosen". Can you please remind me how you deduced, not chose, the encipherment method of looking a specified # of letters beyond a *Mark of Punctuation*? (I know where the 9 comes from, and I realize that looking for characters after punctionation is ONE type of concealment cipher, buy why this one?) Was Z known to have used this method before? Was Allen? Thanks, obiwan
|By obiwan (Obiwan) (ciw1.ciw.edu - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 06:47 am:|
Doug, yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for that example from the "Autobiography", which is quite analogous. You failed to point out one other respect in which the two samples are similar: In both cases, instead of rewriting a flawed sentence entirely, the author cleverly removes a word or a few words, leaving the beginning of the sentence in tact, and then finishes the sentence in a different way to convey his true meaning. Incidentally I have often seen other scientist do just this on papers they are proofreading. There is a certain elegance/laziness, to leaving a flawed sentence mostly intact, but changing its meaning by adding a few clever words.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p51-108.as1.clm.clonmel.eircom.net - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 10:12 am:|
I can only point you back to my original post
for an explanation of why I was drawn to this letter.If this theory is correct then Zodiac slipped us a cipher without telling us that it was one.However,he did leave enough clues for us to find it.In fact,he would have had to,would he not?.These clues are not only taken from links outside this letter but also from within the letter itself.The deleted "complet" is one.Going back to your belief that Zodiac chose his words carefully(an opinion I agree with)another pointer from within the letter itself is his use of "NO NINE". He does not say "next victim" but refers to a number.There are other links to "9" already pointed out.
Concealment Ciphers work on the principal that both sender and receiver know the key.While it is a simple process it is not without its flaws.
You are trying to disguise a secret message within
the text of a letter that has a different theme.In other words you have to force an "alien" message into an otherwise free-flowing
letter.Because of that such letters will often appear disjointed,
they will appear to be a string of loosely connected sentences rather than a free flowing letter.They will have misspellings and punctuation errors.For various reasons they will appear out of place.This letter fits the bill(at least I thought so).Read it a couple of times. If this was a straightforward cry for help,why the spelling errors? Why say "ninth and posibly tenth" what have numbers got to do with anything?
Why not just say he was afraid he would kill more people? How do we reconcile the cry for help with the detail of setting up a bomb? Neither before or after did we ever see Zodiac display any remorse.In his very next letter the victim count went to 10.So,that's why I thought a Concealment Cipher might be at play.However as you say, there are several types,so why this particular one?
For one,the hint was on the first line, a missing punctuation.More importantly, the receiver of the message did not know the key.This particular Concealment Cipher is the classic and original example.There is nothing here thus far to indicate that Zodiac had any great knowledge of ciphers.I think he simply chose the "classic" example.
Many have asked questions about Allen's behaviour in relation to the Zodiac crimes.He injected himself right into the investigation.Again it's a matter for one's personal opinion.He appeared to be playing some type of game.(Even if he was not the Zodiac)He made an awful big deal about contacting Melvin Belli in newspaper articles.
We now find a similar "game" on paper!