Doreen Gaul letter
Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Letters: Doreen Gaul letter
|By Clark Kent (Clark) (slip-32-101-250-167.ca.us.prserv.net - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 07:22 pm:|
I have seen surprisingly little mention of the letter found among murder victim Doreen Gaul's possessions in November 1969. Do most people on this message board believe its a fake?
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 08:44 pm:|
The typed letter-all in caps- was found in Lt. Earl Deemer's papers, in his presence.Deemer was, in 1969, a member of LAPD's Homicide Unit,and was called to the Scientology Manor on Bonnie Brae in the Silverlake District 11/21/69(Full moon Hurley) and found Doreen Gaul and James Sharp both lying in an alley behind the Manor near Magnolia Av.Both victims had been stabbed some 40 times (the girl more). I have the crime/autopsy photos and they are promotions for the death penalty!
I will say as much as I feel I should say from this point on. When the detectives entered Gaul's room they found a copy(of a copy like the '66 Riverside letter) of a typed note(see Zodiacmurders.com for the photo and a full account of the letter in my book-which, if one is too tight to purchase a copy ,you can get one on interlibrary loan at the Vallejo library)in Ms. Gaul's room. There are certain features in the note that compares favorably with the Riverside 11/29/66 typed -all caps- missive.
On a careful investigation,it was found that Bruce Davis (here goes my ol' bias)a close Manson associate, had been staying at the same Manor, but left after the 87 for England around 11/24/69. Lt. Deemer and the team thought that Davis had been the responsible, but Davis fled and they were loaded with 187's plus.An ex Family member told me he knew Davis and Tex Watson killed the couple. Deemer said he was 'up to his eyeballs in bodies'at the time and could not solve the case!
Getting back to 1991 ,when that note( signed the Zodiac Killer) was found Deemer was asked why it wasn'turned into evidence at the time('69).He said that he had so many murder cases and that he was working around the clock, that the 'paper' got 'lost' in the shuffle and he forgot about it until it was found in his "murder book"(this was turned in by us to the Lead detective in the Ramparts Division who had been searching for it for years!)one afternoon. Deemer's wife was present also. I have been in communication with his widow and have both her's and Deemer's letters relative to the Z note.I have spoken to Deemer also and his TAPED statements relative to the Z letter and the cases are in a very safe place currently.I own the tape.
He told us that he did remember sending a copy of the note to the "two Greeks", as he called Toschi and Armstrong and then he filed it away and forgot to later submit it due to emergencies that suddenly came up.He said he knew little to nothing about Zodiac and cared nothing for the case. He was laboring on enough murder cases at the time that it absorbed his complete attention. This is why his wife thought he was such a dedicated detective-he ate, drank and breathed his cases until it ruined his health. He did not slip in regard to the note-it was not his fault, as I have changed some things and have not brought out who else was involved.He sent a copy of the letter north and it was supposed to have been turned in by someone else.Did the "Greeks"get it -I do not know. Nuff said.
|By William Baker (Bill_Baker) (pool0125.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 12:27 am:|
Howard, just FYI, "The Greeks" of SFPD Homicide at the time were John
Fotinos and Gus Correras (it's been a long time, so I may well have screwed up the names
and/or their spelling), who were partnered for many years at least during the 60's and
70's. I'm not sure why any Z-related note would have been sent to them, rather than to
Toschi and Armstrong, unless Lt. Deemer knew "The Greeks personally and not Bill and
Dave, or perhaps John and Gus were doing work at the time to assist on the Z case.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-30.linkline.com - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 02:27 am:|
Thanks for the "Greek" info! This may clear up a problem as Lt.Deemer was quite ill(diabetes)when we were communicating with him(although his mind was clear) and we thought he meant Toschi as he was Italian, but just called him a 'Greek'.Deemer would mention Toschi and the "other guy" he worked with and said he sent the "Greeks" a copy of the note recovered in Ms. Gaul's room.If I remember right-I will review the tape-Deemer said he 'knew' the two detectives and knew they were somehow involved in the Zodiac case, so he sent them the copy of the note.You may have cleared up a mystery for me.Deemer would mention the "Greeks'and Toschi/ Armstrong, hence the confusion.I will e-mail and see if I can contact the men .Thanks again!
I put a request in concerning your 1969 87 and Bobby B.I will try and contact his wife-they both seem, at least now, open and direct relative to Bobby's past.I know he was in the area and it was during the time frame you gave and he certainly was well capable of such evil.
|By William Baker (Bill_Baker) (pool0052.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net - 188.8.131.52) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 03:45 am:|
You know, Howard, over the years the intensity and focus of my resolve has tended to
wane in matters that once seemed so terribly important and clear.
The Jane Doe case from 1969, and Bobby Beausoleil's possible involvement, while still occupying a significant space in the unresolved-conflict file of my career, is one that I have little hope of ever reconciling. Whether Bobby was involved is no longer a strong conviction of mine. Chalk it off, perhaps, to my youth at the time, and fascination with the prospect of linking a notorious figure (and his even more notorious associations) with the otherwise unnoticeable demise of just another unfortunate hitchhiker. I don't intend by saying that to diminish or minimize the significance of a brutal murder, or the unique physical evidence that tends to connect Bobby to the scene of the crime, but only to moderate the decades-old fervor that guided my investigation thirty-some years ago. It's just that time and experience has shown me that there are far too many unidentified, undetected killers in our society, now and then, and that it is folly to hang one's hat on someone when the focus might be unduly influenced by the suspect's celebrity.
Funny, but since my retirement and the time I now have for meaningful reflection, I've often dredged up memories of the unsolved cases I've worked and toyed with the musings that perhaps Z did this one or that. Even the '69 case has undergone that test (it still remains a possibility). Another poster not long ago brought up an unsolved case I worked in '71, with the suggestion that Z might have been the shooter. I've had a number of murder cases that still plague my dreams, and I would like nothing more than to write some off. Unfortunately, it's not that easy.
Oh, well. Bobby's propensity for "evil," or his proximity to the Jane Doe killing, are important factors, but the likelihood of him or his wife ever providing self-incriminating evidence, which would surely preclude his release from custody within his lifetime, is negligible.
Once again, Tom, I apologize for straying from the thread, but the old stimulus-and-response factor has seized my better judgment.
|By Jake (Jake) (spider-tr032.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 08:45 am:|
Bill Baker wrote:
"I'm not sure why any Z-related note would have been sent to them, rather than to Toschi and Armstrong."
According to researcher Mike R, Correras was at Washington and Cherry shortly after the Stine murder, and spoke with the three witnesses. It was his impression, by the way, that the kids were bright, had a great view, and gave info that would lead to a promising sketch. The word is that he might have been the one to catch the case, but was going on vacation soon, so it was assigned to Toschi.
"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, November 05, 2001 - 10:29 pm:|
In the "Zodiac Killer Z"note(see past posts)found in Doreen Gauls room ;it has as one of the lines:"YOU ARE TO BEAUTIFUL TO LIVE AND I MUST KILL YOU."This morning I was rereading Paul Watkins book on Manson.A line that somehow escaped my attention leaped out at me:"he(Charles Manson)said I(young blond blue eyed female D.L.) was TOO BEAUTIFUL and that they WOULDN'T let me LIVE."(EMP mine)FYI
|By Mike_D (Mike_D) (spider-wq012.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 07:48 am:|
Nice to see your site back Howard.One thing I noticed about the Gaul letter I didn't
is what you call nooses look more like eyes!
Am I seeing things?Never noticed this detail before but their seem to be dots in those nooses like pupils.Or maybe I need the occulist!
If they are meant to be eyes that could be more proof Zodiac wrote it.Remember Z's Halloween letter to the reporter was full of eyes drawn in.......