"Cold Case Files" on A&E

Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Zodiac Media: "Cold Case Files" on A&E

By Ron Dobbs (12-218-249-3.client.mchsi.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:35 pm:

Glad that they elimated Arthur Allen as a suspect in Bill Curtis's cold case files. Myself, I doubt they will ever find out who did it.

By Greg (fdial29.infoblvd.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 08:10 pm:

I enjoyed the Cold Cases show, as it was informative and intriguing. The show was how I found your website and look to revisit it often.

By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-160-190.home.cgocable.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 08:23 pm:

I enjoyed all the never before seen footage/photos and the DNA update. The rest was just a general recap of the case which I already knew but thats not A&E's fault they have to do that for the newbies to the case. Thumbs up.

By Tom Voigt (Admin) (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 08:33 pm:

If anyone has a Zodiac-related question or comment not pertaining to "Cold Case Files", please send me an e-mail instead of posting it in this thread.

Here's my address: tomvoigt@zodiackiller.com

By MS ( - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 08:36 pm:

They interview the wrong people for these shows. Graysmith is atrocious to anyone who has any knowledge of the actual facts. Tom, Butterfield, Kelleher could make a two-hour show twice as interesting. Having Graysmith serve as arbiter of the facts is pure folly. As for the cops, Baker strikes me as markedly smarter than a couple of the cops typically interviewed. No offense, it would just for more interesting input.

Thought the portrayal of those very interested in the case as some form of morbid Trekkies was unfair. Nobody says that of Cornwell when she goes off the deep end naming Jack the Ripper based on flimsy "evidence" or of the middle-aged yuppies who suddenly became fascinated with the case as a result.

By Sandy (Sandy) (12-233-90-84.client.attbi.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 08:40 pm:

Tom, I just saw it 3hrs before some on the west coast. I liked it,it had better pictures of the victims. Watch for the SFPD officer telling the story that a man(who could have been Z) "was" spoken to just after the Stine shooting! I sure wish they could get it right. They spoke of the man telling them, that he saw a man go into the park. That was different! You looked great,the rest of us can be seen in the last 5 min.At Lake B. Over all it was well done.

By tim allen (ip-wv-24-159-113-058.charterwv.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:04 pm:

I taped it so I could go back through it time and again to get details right. Very well done, I didn't need any coaching to watch it cause I watch Bill Curtis and the cold case files anyway. It's a darn good show.Thanks go out to you too Tom
for this website and your insight.

By Tom_Voigt (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:32 pm:

I'm only half way through the show, however a certain "author" has already provided another classic quote:

"He (Zodiac) called it his game of outdoor chess."

In truth, of course, Zodiac never mentioned anything about chess. Sigh. Typical crap from that author.

So far, the show is excellent. To be continued...

By tim allen (ip-wv-24-159-113-058.charterwv.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:42 pm:

didn,t know until tonight that greysmith was a cartoonist..which paper? yeah where in the heck did he get that crap>>outdoor chess>> barney fife would know better than that..

By Tom_Voigt (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:44 pm:

Gads, yet another lie from that "author," this time regarding the Aug. 4, 1971 police interview of suspect Arthur Leigh Allen:

"First words out of his mouth: Most Dangerous Game!"

By susanne (dsl-71-034.rpt.pmt.org - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:44 pm:

Just watched the show you are mentioning. (Which is why I came here) The dna that was tested was from the saliva on the stamps and/or envelopes? I hate to be a downer on this but anyone could have licked the stamp or envelope. Even the dog.Or in the case of Allen a little kid he was messing with.

By Ann (Ann) (cache-dh03.proxy.aol.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:47 pm:

It was very good, I thought. I was a little confused when they stated that a full hand print had been lifted from the Napa phone booth - from the telephone. I thought I had read that the print was destroyed in the lifting process. Perhaps not?

Anyway, it was a great show. Well done. Also, nice interview, Tom.

By tim allen (ip-wv-24-159-113-058.charterwv.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:50 pm:

yeah but why hide dna evidence at a time when little if anything was known about dna.why does graysmith keep misquoting the facts?is he realy that obvious or is he a natural.

By TLD (ip-md-cmbrlnd-68-116-179-129.chartermd.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:53 pm:


By tim allen (ip-wv-24-159-113-058.charterwv.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:54 pm:

palm print on the exorcist letter I think is what they said and that was recently done too.didn't match Allen though..they already checked that from what they say on the show.doesn,t rule him out just doesn,t convict him.

By tim allen (ip-wv-24-159-113-058.charterwv.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:59 pm:

they must have felt obliged to include greysmith on the show? why I don't know, he is obviously disengaged..they should have cut him out and spent the time more wisely..with Tom or one of the others,...other than greysmith it was a fascinating and refreshing documentary

By Ann (Ann) (cache-dh03.proxy.aol.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:02 pm:

Tim, I did see that, about the sliding palm print, but they also mentioned the print left on the telephone.

By Gregusjay (Gregusjay) (12-234-233-242.client.attbi.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:08 pm:

I think this show conclusively eliminates Allen as the the Zodiac. DNA forensics in the 60s and early 70s was virtually unheard of, so why hide from it?? And the palm print is a clear indication that Allen did not write the letters.
At first Mageau claims his killer had brown curly hair..there is a big difference between bald and curly. I am permanently scratching Arthur Leigh Allen off my suspects list.
Did Allen know anything about the real Zodiac killer..?? If he did he took it to his grave.

By William Baker (Bill_Baker) (lsanca1-ar17-4-61-196-215.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

Briefly, the show was somewhat disappointing, considering Bill Kurtis' usual attention to accuracy. Apart from the expected distortions of truth from Graysmith, Kurtis himself repeatedly offered information which was wholly inaccurate and more in line with many of the sources that perpetuate the same old garbage we have heard so many times, on so many broadcasts.

I expected more from this production, but was left with the impression that it was little more than a resurgence of the chronic ills which plague the media's interpretation of the known facts of the events. A retrospective, adding a few current points, but more of the same. Why can't the story be told without sacrificing the truth for the sake of dramatic impact?

By mysha diehl (2416422hfc205.tampabay.rr.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:28 pm:

I am watching it now, it is good but I think the Primetime Live show 2 weeks ago was better they had new evidence. It still didn't shed any light on the case, however i think the ZODIAC and GREEN RIVER KILLER (who also remains elusive and has taken just as many if not more lives) are the most profound unsolved's of our time. Kudos to Bill Curtis.

By Blake R Adams (cpe-66-91-95-150.hawaii.rr.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:36 pm:

Hi, I watched a few zodiac short films when i was younger. It always interested me, although i forgot about this interesting case I happened to catch it tonight. It was really good information (For me)I never knew about. And i am glad they spotted this web site on the show because my interest in the killer is re sparked. Although it was a let down that they targeted this one guy mostly and in the end say his dna did not match.

By Bil Simser (h68-144-78-42.cg.shawcable.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:10 pm:

I've been following Zodiac for a few years now (since I read the first Zodiac book and Graysmiths followup Zodiac Unmasked). I believe that they're ruled out Allen now. While he might have been a prime suspect, fingerprint and palm prints show no match. Unless you want to believe the 2nd gunman theory in which Allen was the mastermind behind the killings with someone else doing the dirty work.

I'm really curious about a follow-up to the Cold Case file on A&E tonight. In it, Bill Kurtis states that as they were wrapping up the show (sometime after June 20th, 2003 as that was the last date they gave for new information) they had aquired 3 new envelopes that were going to be DNA profiled. It's been a month or so now so does anyone know the outcome to that? Have they built their full DNA profile and if so, what other suspects can they include or exclude in the killings?

By Kevin (Kevinrm) (ip68-98-108-6.ph.ph.cox.net - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:42 pm:

In my opinion, this was the best Zodiac TV special to date. Not perfect, but better than the rest. Actual crime scenes, nice view of the car door, letters, interviews with actual detectives, etc. Graysmith was an annoyance though - they've got to quit using that guy.

Speaking of Graysmith, did anyone else catch where he said that the light sensor device on the Z bomb would actually "count the number of windows in the bus"? Give me a break, it would NOT!

By Jay Powers (cs24378-58.satx.rr.com - on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:48 pm:

I have heard of the Zodiac before but never knew any of the facts until i watched this show. The show seemed to rule out Allen as the killer, just by ruling him out as the letter writer. Assuming that all the letters were authentic, i still think Allen is the killer despite the palm print and DNA of stamp. Just because DNA testing was unheard of, Allen would have been familiar with letter analysis for writing styles. Being worried about that he might have had someone very close to him write the letters and mail them. From what Don Cheney says, it seems allen was the type that liked to tell people about the killings, why not tell someone the details to write the letters for him? also i find it pretty hard to argue with a man that was shot by the Zodiac and identified Allen.

By George (spider-mtc-ti043.proxy.aol.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 01:46 am:

Does Graysmith have a courtesy card from every media outlet in the country? I e-mailed A&E, they asked for e-mail. I would encourage others to do the same. REMEMBER: Graysmith has been unmasked, he'll take it as a challenge. This could actually get a lot worse! I am sure there are those who owe him favors, he will not just lie down. It could get ugly, or should I say uglier.

By Rob B. (d141-252-136.home.cgocable.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:03 am:

I'm not sure how much it really proves that Allen was picked out of a photo lineup.

In one of the letters posted at aetv.com right now, Zodie claims that whenever he killed somebody he first changed his appearance. "I look like the description passed out only when I do my thing, the rest of the time I look entirle different. I shall not tell you what my descise consists of when I kill," he writes.

So if you assume that this isn't a lie and you also assume that he changed his appearance every single time he murdered someone, his surviving victim--I forget his name, the guy with the glasses--wouldn't have seen what he truly looked like. It's possible that Zodie's disguise perhaps made him look like Allen.

By Tom_Voigt (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:39 am:

I give the show two enthusiastic thumbs up.

While there were a few factual errors (to be expected), the archival footage was fantastic and there were several "fresh" faces/voices to tell the story, including George Bawart, Mel Nicolai, John Shimoda, Armond Pelisetti, etc.

Bill Kurtis and "Cold Case Files" did a great job and I highly recommend this episode.

By Scream187 (hse-quebeccity-ppp3496710.sympatico.ca - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:44 am:

Rob B.
Zodiac lied so much that you shouldnt really trust anything he said.
Also it seems that he wrote that letter in a moment of panic because police was getting closer to him. I actually think he looks like that sketch a lot.

By MikeR (64-8-195-168.client.dsl.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 05:56 am:


I have to agree that the show was interesting despite its almost inevitable (it seems) factual errors. Allen covered in blood after the LB crime and the story of the knife on the car seat? Crystal and fine china at LB? Well...It was interesting to see the people that we never do get to see, as Tom said. Don't forget Russ Butterbach, too. And the color shots of the cab with the fingerprint powder on the post between the front and rear doors was cool, too. Color shots from those crime scenes are as rare as the proverbial hen's teeth.

It was refreshing to seee Ed Rust admit to the "poker game" that went on between the departments. There definitely was a sense of competition more so than cooperation, from what I've seen in my own work. And it exists to this day.

BTW, the Hardens did not find double "L"s by finding double cipher symbols in the code following the "I"s. Z used multiple symbols for each letter, which made what they did more difficult and impressive.


By Brad (ertpg9e1.nortelnetworks.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 06:24 am:

I have to admit that I found myself focusing on the obvious inaccuracies, which kept me from being able to enjoy it as much the first time through. I'll watch it on tape tonight and see what happens. But these detractions are pretty good ones, IMO.

1. Graysmith. Just putting him on there reduces the validity of the show.
2. Why does everyone have a different story about what happened in PH that night after the murder? Foukes says he didn't speak to me him and he saw him turn into a residence on Jackson. Pelisetti says they talked to him and let him go, and Kurtis' narration said he disappeared into the park. Sounds like Pelisetti and Kurtis were using the Zodiac's version of events from the 10-13-69 letter instead of reliable witness testimony.
3. Allen going scuba diving on 9-27, meeting some people, "helping them kill a chicken and then barbeque it" and returning covered in blood, prompting a witness to turn him in. I think this might be an amalgam of some graysmithisms with some postulation thrown in.

Overall, though, I'm with everyone else about the more rare photos, footage and real crime scene. It was definitely a newer fresher approach and it left out all the ridiculous, overly-dramatic build ups of the crimes which usually would include some misleading re-enactment. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

By Melissa Fleming (dhcp-69-43-11-154.fibernet.dialup.citynet.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 06:29 am:

I am just wondering why with the technology we have today and the data bases with finger prints...why have they not been able to find out who is responsible for these killings? They seem to think that when killings had not occured (when Alen was in jail) that it was because he was in jail. At the closing of Cold Case files they said that the person responsible for the killings was either dead or in jail. This leads me back to my original question...if the person is possibly in jail...wouldn't his finger prints be on file somewhere. Maybe I watch to much CSI and it isn't as easy as they make it look...but those computer's that they put the finger prints in seem to do wonders on the show. Just curious...maybe they have tried and I just didn't catch that part...I am new to taking an interest in this case...amazing all of the clues that he has left and he hasn't been caught.

By Bucko (Bucko) (cache0.pal.ptd.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 07:23 am:

Great to see Tom and friends around the picnic table. Wish they had used more info from the group. I was surprised to hear Balwart's take on the case, especially the knife story. Maybe he should have been sitting next to Graysmith.

Also surprised, as Sandy mentioned above, to hear officer Armond Pelissetti discuss how a man was stopped and spoken to (presumedly by Foukes & Zelms). He either should take a seat next to Graysmith & Balwart, or perhaps he is speaking truthfully about the encounter. He was on the scene that night and I'm sure may have been privy to inside info concerning this.

Next time a show is done on Zodiac, I would like to see Bill Baker replace Balwart and Tom replace Graysmith. Now that would be a show!

By MikeInFla (pcp01026798pcs.panamb01.fl.comcast.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 08:00 am:

Great show! I was interested in the Zodiac case 10-15 years ago when I first read the book. Then, several months ago I discovered this awesome website. Then last night when flipping through channels I saw "Up next on Cold Case: The Zodiac". I had no idea it was coming on and it was great to see a lot of stuff from the old book in color and nice to see older interviews with a lot of the people involved. Glad they gave an update on Leigh... My son (10 years old) kept saying "I bet that's the guy" and I kept telling him "No, it isn't just keep watching, they have never caught the guy". After it went off I told my son I read the book when I was about 15 years old and it scared me to death. Told him not to have bad dreams when he went to bed. LOL! Great show, would've loved a 2 hour episode because this case involved SO MUCH more than one hour can cover.

Mike In Fla.

By Ron Dobbs (12-218-249-3.client.mchsi.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:07 am:

Cold case files last night was great. It's a very frustrating case. Like everyone said it wasn't perfect but it's a heck of a lot better than Graysmith's theories. I came out of that convinced that Ala wasn't the Zodiac. Curtis has done the best show so far. Hope that you can keep us up to date on the further Dna tests.

By Big Al (adsl-19-123-46.asm.bellsouth.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:46 am:


By Scream187 (hse-quebeccity-ppp3496710.sympatico.ca - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 12:45 pm:

John Pruitt, apparently that voice recording is a myth (or a graysmith he he he) and it doesnt actually exist...

By KevinD (authorized_proxy4.cogeco.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 12:46 pm:

I thought it was an excellent show. What I wish is that, as I'm sure everyone else does, someone could get a good interview with Mike Mageau. It would be great if they could talk to him on one of the Zodiac specials. However, from what I have read on these boards, it seems very unlikely.

By michelleanderson (12-217-168-179.client.mchsi.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 01:07 pm:

Bill Kurtis RULES! i have been casually following the zodiac case since studying criminology in college. it is quite fascinating, although frustrating. i agree that besides for Graysmith, cold case files was the best show to date i have seen on the zodiac case.

also, did anyone else catch a & e biography right before ccfiles? it was on richard speck, and by far the most detailed tv show ever on him, his crimes and subsequent trial, and later on his prison escapades on video. i was really impressed b/c they did a great job and showed never-before seen photos of the crime scenes. what is disturbing, is that the townhouse where the 8 nurses were killed is still there, and a family lives there! everything is JUST AS IT WAS that fateful night in july 1966. horrifying!

By James (dialin-161-32.tor.primus.ca - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 01:09 pm:

Just a question for anyone who might know.

Don't you think that over all the years that the letters were being held by investigators that anyones palm print could have ended up on the letter? So really this print means nothing if it didn't match Allens. By the way they mentioned at the end of the show that new DNA was being tested. Any idea how and when we might find out about that?

By Darrell (stl-proxy-06.boeing.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 01:37 pm:

watched the program on A&E last night, that is how I found the web site (great site). At the end of the program they said new DNA was being extracted from 3 more letters. I knew about the DNA from the previous letter and that it excluded the suspect name in the "Zodiac Unmasked" book. I have a few questions:

1) Has any other suspects DNA been compared to the DNA extracted from letter #1?
2) Has the DNA extraction been completed yet from the 3 new letters? If yes then I'd repeat question #1 for that DNA. And does it match DNA from letter #1?

3) Is there transcripts from the letters on you web site? I found some of them hard to read.

By Merlin (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 03:17 pm:

Howdy!-The show was good.Yet,it does not give any historical background about the 60s creature ,Zodiac.I finished reading ,"Desert Shadows",by Bob Murphey(1993).The cops still don't get what the Zodiac was all about.He outsmarted all the police and the Mansons too.I still think that the Zodiac was a navy guy ,who disliked Arthur Allen's father.Why?That is the puzzling question that endures.Allen's last driver's license photo,he looks like character actor,Gordon Jump.Tom-You do look better in this news-story.You're more natural and relaxed here.Great site!--Merlin--

By Wendi (Wendi) (dpc6682009012.direcpc.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

It wasn't a perfect show, but very well put together. Unlike so many other shows, I was pleased that at least part of the show focused on the impact this case had on all involved.To often, the victims are never mentioned as people, just as a statistic to add to the lore of the killer.Every show needs ratings I guess...
I'll watch it again sometime to investigate the details.
Glad to see some faces from the site on the show.

By JR (cache-mtc-ak04.proxy.aol.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 07:35 pm:

I was frankly shocked when the palm print and DNA evidence ruled out Allen as the Zodiac. They never could connect his handwriting to the Zodiac, and never could find any forensic evidence when they searched his homes either.

From what I had read in the past, I assumed Allen was the Zodiac killer.

I guess this is another Jack the Ripper case, where we will never have any idea who it was. I tend to think that in both cases the real killer never even came under suspicion.

In the Jack the Ripper case, it is most likely that he was a sailor and shipped out, returned to his homeland or died somewhere.

I guess the Zodiac either died or was imprisoned.

By Howard Davis (Howard) ( - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 10:30 pm:

Time to get Toms excellent video!

By john prisk (dsc04-lbv-ca-4-92.rasserver.net - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:41 pm:

James - -

The only way a secondary palm print (of the type they were specifically looking for) would end up on the letter is if the donor were running his hand across the letter as if writing it him/herself. Since that would probably damage existing evidence (thus being a foolish thing to do), its a safe bet that it was not one of the investigators. Only Robert Graysmith would be dumb enough to do that.

By Ed N. (Ed_N) (acc25542.ipt.aol.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:50 pm:

MS wrote:

Thought the portrayal of those very interested in the case as some form of morbid Trekkies was unfair.

Maybe so, but, considering that I am a Trekkie as well as a Zodiologist, I got a kick out of it (especially since, as soon as Tom said it, they cut to a closeup of me).

mysha diehl wrote:

... however i think the ZODIAC and GREEN RIVER KILLER (who also remains elusive and has taken just as many if not more lives) are the most profound unsolved's of our time.

Gary Ridgeway, aka the Green River Killer, was arrested 11-30-2001.

All in all, it was a great show (one of the best, I'd say), but they appeared to rely on Bob Graysmith too much, hence the factual errors. I'm glad they finally got a good picture of BLJ too, I hate the one they always show on the other programs! Otherwise, with great new footage and new interviews, you can't beat Bill Kurtis.

BTW, we actually met at Lake B on the 21st, not the 20th. But, close enough for gubmint work...

By Tom_Voigt (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:58 pm:

Thanks for the reviews, everyone. Let's have some more!

By jonathan (modemcable060.198-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca - on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 05:59 am:

that was a great Zodiac show but i much loved the case reopened because in case their was reconstitution of the murders and because in the cold case files robert graysmith talk too often. but cold case files was a great tv moment and i loved the segment about allen. bill curtis was unbelieveble too. so cold case files was not the greatess show about zodiac but he was very good. have a nice day folks.

By Tom Stout (Tom_Stout) (dialup- - on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 07:01 am:

I missed it, damn it!
Anyone know when I can catch a rerun?

DNA, Palm prints...
Beware of false clews in this case.

Can you imagine what Johnnie Cochran could do to that flimsy DNA evidence in a court room?

By Evanne F. (12-216-250-210.client.mchsi.com - on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:52 am:

Cold Case Files was pretty interesting, much more so than the other shows I have seen. In the past, despite my 8 year fascination with the Zodiac, I have changed the channel or fallen asleep b/c it is usually just a re-has (mostly of Graysmith) with nothing new to offer, no new insight, evidence or ideas.

I agree that it is better to not have re-enactments on the shows, they are always misleading later. TV has such a strong visual impact that it is hard to get those things out of your head, and considering the often flawed information that is used in most crime oriented TV, I think it is better not to confuse the issue.

Also, have you ever noticed that the re-enactments, even when they try to make the killer shadowy, give away "whodunit"? In this case you can be sure that there would be an ALA look-alike playing the part, better to forgo that.

By Bruce Monson (Bruce_Monson) (mail.ci.colospgs.co.us - on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 11:25 am:

Missed it... Drats!

I checked the A&E website to see if they had the video available, or even a schedule for when it would air again. No mention of either. Drats!

I contacted A&E via phone and the rep told me that the Cold Case:Zodiac video WOULD NOT be available for purchase. Also, they no longer do extended listings for future show scheduling. Drats again!

Does anyone else have a heads-up on when the show will re-air? Tom?, Ed?, Scott?, Anyone?


Bruce Monson

By Scott_Bullock (cache-dh03.proxy.aol.com - on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 11:43 am:

Despite the obvious trappings, such as Bawart's recounting of the "chicken blood" incident, Graysmith's insistence on placing words in the Zodiac's mouth which were false, the gloss over/rehash of the DNA evidence, and the fact that it was written and produced by people with less familiarity with the case than Kilgore and Zander, it actually managed to be intriguing, if only for the 'freshness' of it; meaning that the new interviews, fresh faces, and unique archival photos, video, etc., was an interesting aside from what has already been observed to this point.

Also, I give major kudos to the A&E videographer, soundman, and production team, the new footage was beautifully shot and, as I said before, amazingly fresh. Of course, there were some wrongly stated facts [at one point in the show, for example, Bill Kurtis 'says' that Paul Stine was murdered on 10/10/69 instead of 10/11/69], but I also found it interesting that Cheri Jo Bates was never mentioned, despite the fact that Kathleen Johns was. Make of that what you will, I suppose. Anyway, my biggest regret [facetiously speaking] is that Tom's 'Mr. Bing's' shirt wasn't more prominently displayed, and that, all things considered, "the meeting of minds" was portrayed much more cartoonish than it actually was.

Otherwise and therefore, I loved it.

By Julia (Julia) (host-66-81-218-70.rev.o1.com - on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 07:00 pm:

It was enjoyable, but the factual inaccuracies irritated me. A couple of hours' research through this website would've been such a simple solution.

I'd have preferred a longer show, too, with less soft-focus filler shots (and more clear crime scene photos), and an overview of all, or at least more, of the most well-known suspects. I liked the coverage of Allen, though, and the new interviews and (better) victim snapshots were indeed excellent.

I have to admit that counting the "Graysmithisms" was kind of entertaining.

"Outdoor chess," good grief.

I do think that focusing more on modern-day sleuths and their theories/discoveries could've been refreshingly different and potentially illuminating. Also, I agree with those above who said they'd rather see Tom, Bill Baker, Mike Butterfield and Mike Kelleher speak instead of Graysmith, etc. Hear hear!

Tom's appearance sans hat was appreciated.

By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-160-190.home.cgocable.net - on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 07:26 pm:

Ed N, you knew you were going to be on TV. You couldn't have trimmed the beard? :)

By Sterling91274 (cache-rp06.proxy.aol.com - on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:02 pm:

Putting Graysmith in the show lowered it's credibility a few notches, but putting Tom and Ed in it balanced things out, so I guess I'll call it a draw.

By Cynthia (cache-dh03.proxy.aol.com - on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 08:59 am:

I enjoyed the show, although RG annoyed me.

With regards to Boz's comment:As for the Dna sample, well let me tell you, if you go to a postal outlet and have a envelope, and need a stamp. There is a possibility that at the time of purchase the clerk may have licked and placed the stamp onto the envelope as he/she placed it into the delivery bin for Allen. So DNA here is not that certain in ruling out Allen.

Why would the postal clerk apply too much postage?

By Bookworm (Bookworm) (12-206-165-69.client.attbi.com - on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 05:22 am:

It looked like they just checked a small rectangular portion of the envelope for DNA. Maybe they thought if there wasn't any on a small portion, there wouldn't be any on the rest of the seal.

I liked the new photos and the color picture of the Dragon card.

By jeffrey (c-67-166-133-107.client.comcast.net - on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 07:26 pm:

Excellent show. I've come to expect flaws from major TV shows about Zodiac. And sadly, I've resigned myself to the fact Robert Graysmith will probably always be a part of them. Great unseen before footage, interviews, etc. "Cold Case Files" is one of the best Zodiac programs to date, and Bill Kurtis did a fine job.

With Regards,

By Joe Stanley (dialup- - on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 08:25 pm:

Bill Kurtis "bobs" and "weaves" more than a welterweight prizefighter with Tourrette's Syndrome.

By Ed N. (Ed_N) (acc6f2f0.ipt.aol.com - on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 11:23 pm:

Ryan wrote:

Ed N, you knew you were going to be on TV. You couldn't have trimmed the beard?

Actually, I figured you'd probably see me from a distance. I wasn't expecting such an extreme closeup, or I would have, lol...

By Tom Voigt (Admin) (12-231-193-32.client.attbi.com - on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 01:48 pm:

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