The Zodiac movie - a ray of hope? Message Board: Zodiac Media: The Zodiac movie - a ray of hope?

By Vassago (Vassago) ( - on Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 02:28 pm:

To begin, with this being my first post here (but not the first post on the
Zodiac ever - that one would be, I believe, about two years ago on
alt.true-crime ;)), I'd like to say hello to everyone. Greetings from one
true crime and, in particular, Zodiac buff from thousands of miles away
(yes, the Zodiac case fascinates thousands if not millions all over the world).
I've read and visited this and other sites for a long time and eventually
thought I might try to post something here instead of just lurking...

Well, that's for an introduction - now on to the subject of the post.

I've read Mr Voigt's explanation stating that the big Zodiac-based movie is
currently shelved... Here's a ray of hope, though: you might know that there
soon will be a terribly inaccurate but definitely big movie based (er... at
least to a certain extent... let's say it will use some real names on Jack
the Ripper's case - "From Hell", with Johnny Depp. So... if the movie does
well, this might convince the Hollywood people that the equally (in)famous
case might indeed be turned into an equally successful movie, and we (if you
don't mind my using the plural) might end up with a decent Zodiac flick. So
far the only fairly watchable Zodiac movie is, I believe, "TLR" (with George
Dzundza as Allen), as I understand the 1970s flick is too stupid to watch


By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 04:44 pm:

Vassago: for whatever my opinion's worth, I rather liked George Dzundza as "Allen" in The Limbic Region. Edward James Olmos was also good as the Toschi-Lundblad (mostly Toschi) composite. Maybe, if a new Z-movie is attempted, Dzundza can be brought back to play Allen...

By Hugo (Hugo) ( on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 01:20 pm:

Sorry folks, this is waaaayyyyy off subject, but a quick reply to Vassago's mention of the "From Hell" movie. Given the fact that's it's a big budget Hollyweird movie, it will probably be terribly inaccurate. However, check out the original graphic novel by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell -- one of the most extensively researched (w/ over 30 pages of footnotes -- odd for a comic book) pieces of Ripper literature available. Particularly look at the apendix titled "Dance of the Gull Catchers." All of us who spend a lot of time thinking about the Z case (and mythologizing it in the process) would do well to heed Mr. Moore's warnings to Ripperologists, lest this case take over our lives.

By JK (Vassago) ( - on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 05:09 pm:

I also think George Dzundza would be a good choice to play Zodiac (with just this exception - *Zodiac*, not specifically Allen... at this moment the Zodiac I'd like to see in the movie would be an amalgam of two-three top suspects and that shadowy "nobody" who never surfaced and could have been the actual killer). Unless they wanted someone looking closer to the official composite (it's been said here before that since Zodiac appeared to be scared having seen it, the portrait could have been pretty accurate...)

Hugo: yes, that's definitely a good point! Obsessions can be very dangerous, true... Anyway, at least nobody has suggested so far that the Zodiac was actually Stephen King looking for ideas and inspiration (Note to anyone not getting it: one writer proposed Lewis Carroll as Jack the Ripper a few years ago...)

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 07:31 pm:

George Dzundza was pretty good in the flick, but what about John Madden...he'd be perfect, or perhaps the guy who played George Costanza on "Seinfeld"? What do you think?
Penn in 2004. Eat the turd!

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) ( - on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 09:04 pm:

Drew Carey is the only actor who could possibly play Zodiac.

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 11:00 pm:

I have a new respect for Drew Carey after he reached the $500,000 question on celebrity Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

By Jake Wark (Jake) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 03:06 pm:

My Fantasy Zodiac Movie Lineup:

Z: Howie Long
Betty Lou Jensen: The girl who played Rogue in X-Men
Darlene Ferrin: Christina Ricci
Cecelia Shepard: Reese Witherspoon
Toschi: Walter Matthau
Bill Armstrong: Jack Lemmon
Ken Narlow: Robert Forster
Paul Avery: Donald Sutherland
Robert Graysmith: Steve Buscemi
Arthur Allen: Meat Loaf
Gareth Penn: Christopher Lloyd
Mike O'Hare: Kevin Spacey
Harvey Hines: Harry Dean Stanton
Larry Kane: Henry Winkler
Doug Oswell: John Lithgow
Ted Kaczynski: Kenneth Branagh
Tom: Christian Slater

--Jake: Ed Norton
"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 03:16 pm:

Christian Slater? I hate that guy.

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 03:45 pm:

Walter Matthau died recently, didn't he? Might need a second choice on Toschi...

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 04:08 pm:

Instead of Christian Slater, how about Tom Cruise? Who would play the other Z-men? Vic Tayback should play Z, Macauley Culkin as Faraday (because he gets killed right away), Steve Guttenberg as Stine, and Hartnell and Mageau can appear as themselves. And make sure Christina Ricci wears low cut-everything and does a lot of love scenes...

By Moonmaid (Moonmaid) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 05:40 pm:

*laughing so hard I'm crying*

"Ted Kaczynski: Kenneth Branagh"

-I would pay a lot of money to make that a reality.

"Macauley Culkin as Faraday (because he gets killed right away)"

-Let's make him play all of the victims.

-Drew Carey: Stalky, crew cut, glasses...

PLAY Zodiac?
By God! I think he IS Zodiac!

By Jake Wark (Jake) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 05:50 pm:

My first choice for Stine was the guy from the TV show Taxi, but I drew a blank on the name, all I could come up with was Judd Nelson. He's the brat-packer, right?

I feel like there's a better choice for Narlow, too, but Forster plays a good cop. Trustworthy, a straight-shooter, etc.

Tayback, Carey, and Costanza are all possibles for Z, but, you know, get your own fantasy.

"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 05:59 pm:

Lots of nude scenes with Christina Ricci. Hard to believe she was in The Addams Family not too many years ago...

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 06:00 pm:

Jake: you're thinking of Judd Hirsch. He's a little too old now though...

By Jake Wark (Jake) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 06:05 pm:

If Christina plays Ferrin, I will wholeheartedly endorse the theory that she was the center of the Zodiac case.

"This is the Christina Ricci Fan Page..."

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 09:48 pm:

We'd have to put that spin on it in order to justify the inclusion of so many nude scenes. BTW, Jake, you're thinking of Anna Paquin as Rogue in X-Men. Maybe we should have some nude scenes with her as well...

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 01:54 am:

My Line-up for the best possible Z movie:
Z- Luciano Pavarotti (Dom Deluise if the budget-not the clothing- is tight)
Toschi- the guy who played Jim in "Taxi"
Armstrong- Michael Caine (Yeah, I know he has an accent)
Narlow- Leonard Nimoy, sans ears
Gareth Penn- John Malkovich (has to use ether)
Tom Voight- John Cusack (add 35 lbs)
Ferrin- B. Spears (preferably nude and rude)
Mageau- a young Ron Howard, or Anson Williams
Hartnell- Crispin Glover
Shepherd- Christina Applegate
Stine- Ron Jeremy
Johns- any shrill, shrieking shrew will do!
Hines- Dennis Hopper (during his HEAVY drug days)
Allen (if not Z)- Stephen Furstman ('Flounder' from "Animal House")
Kane- DeNiro (cameo)
Bates- Jenna Jameson
The Vallejo P.D.- ensemble role played by nearest Mensa chapter (sorry Gareth)
Farraday- any one of the Backstreet Boys
Jensen- Fiona Apple
Graysmith- Patrick Macnee
Jake- Jesse Ventura
Sandy- Sinead O'Connor
Any one care to make me dream come true by providing me with the funds necessary? Cash on the barrelhead, baby!
Happy Holidays Everyone!
p.s. Ed, I'm worried about you. You seem a little perverted at times.

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 09:54 am:

Oscar: I'm perverted??? You want Ron "the Hedgehog" Jeremy and Jenna Jameson... We can do nude scenes, not sex scenes! LOL

On a serious note, though, Sinead O'Connor as Sandy won't work. The bald wannabe singer looks nothing like her. I'd suggest... hmm, I'll have to think about that.

P.S. Crispin Glover as Hartnell! Good choice... (did you notice he looked exactly the same in Charlie's Angels as he did 15 years ago in Back to the Future?)...

P.P.S. He has some experience with being killed in the movies, which is always good. Remember, Jason killed him with a meat cleaver in the forehead in Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter.

By Lapumo (Lapumo) ( - on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 09:57 am:

I think for this film to be a success,it would have to span the generations to make it as realistic as possible.I would propose the Kid from "the sixth sense"(can't remember the name)to play Zodiac as a child.He was probably that screwed up,right!.Alot of these "true crime"films are not as good with established actors,so I would be proposing some "new blood"(pardon the pun)for the lead role.For this film at least,I think ALA should be Zodiac,so I think Mikhael Gorbachev should be drafted in for the part.It would certainly explain alot of things.He probably woke up one morning,with most of his hair still left on the pillow.I think this was the catalyst.Having looked in the mirror he sees the Zodiac sign and Radian theory on his forehead,and thinks it a sign from God.Of course we all know who he is because of this,but we can't prove it.For present day Zodiac,I would have hoped to cast George Burns,man, those glasses
that sense of humour.But since he passed away I am open to suggestions.
p.s. Oscar,I know now why you have not been posting as often recently.

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 08:31 pm:

How about Bruce Willis play Ken Narlow?

By Rogerr (Rogerr) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:18 am:

Calista Flockhart as Cecelia Shepherd.

Robert Downey Jr as either Hartnell or Michael Butterfield


By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:20 am:

If Ron Jeremy has to be involved, I suggest he play Magnetic North.

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:24 am:

Butterfield should be played by either:
Levitt from "Barney Miller"
Niles Crane from "Frasier"

If they aren't available, I suggest Buffalo Bill from "The Silence of the Lambs."

By Rogerr (Rogerr) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:27 am:

>If Ron Jeremy has to be involved, I suggest he play Magnetic North.

He wouldn't fit in the inset map. Too many inches along the radian.

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:28 am:

Ed N. needs to be played by none other than Jack Black from "Mr. Show."

Sandy: Shirley Maclaine
Toschi: Milli Vanilli
Cartoon Drawer: Tom Arnold

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:33 am:

>If Ron Jeremy has to be involved, I suggest he play Magnetic North.

"He wouldn't fit in the inset map. Too many inches along the radian."

Roger is now my favorite.

By Esau (Esau) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 07:56 pm:

How about Former California Governor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown in drag as Kathleen Johns?

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 08:21 pm:

No, if you really want Hollywood to make a Zodiac movie, you've got to really screw around with it so much that you don't know what you're looking at:

Toschi, Whoopi Goldberg
Armstrong: Rosie O'Donnell
Betty Lou Jensen: Cher
Tom: Will Smith
Kathleen Johns: Julia Roberts
You know, something along the lines like that. Meatloaf as Allen (Lol!) an excellent choice. Gives it that Rocky Horror kind of feel. The message board of course will play itself. Radians will be too complicated for them to grasp, they'll have to change it to following a trail of cigarette butts.

By Jake Wark (Jake) ( - on Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 07:00 am:

Hurley wrote:
"Radians will be too complicated for them to grasp, they'll have to change it to following a trail of cigarette butts."

Anybody here remember the Z episode of "Nash Bridges?" Nash is talking and squinting at Cheech and recalls "The real Zodiac killed by bisecting the quadrants of the radian..."

Like the real story wasn't complicated enough, so they threw in some math that didn't even exist.


By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 07:55 am:

Lol! And Jake will direct. We'll let Michael Richards play Mike Mageau but he'll still have to wear his hair all up in the air like Kramer.

The biggest problem they'll have in solving the case is trying to get a good set of lip prints from their Z suspect to match up with the ones found on the cigarette butts which they'll realize when you draw a line connecting them all it will reveal a giant happy face giving everyone the figner but when it comes to tv they'll edit it to be a thumbs up sign cause, you know, that would be too obscene.

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 12:00 pm:

No! Z will get pinched by the authorities because he smoked-are you ready- Menthols! During the raid on his trailer, Z is caught inflagrante delicto with a large Carlton menthol in his piehole and runs screaming at Toschi(Charlton Heston) and Armstrong (I'm gonna' back Hurley and go with O'Donell), yelling, "MWWEEAAAGGHH MWEEAGGGK...AAACKK". Armstrong/Rosie whips out a petrified canoli and brains Z over the noggin', causing him to pitch face-first into his stash of Mensa membership applications, bomb schematics, and a broken postage meter shaped like Mt. Diablo.
Other highlights of this Dadaist Z-flick:
Z will be dressed in a Gary Glitter-type outfit while prancing around at Lake Berryessa. He will mail the entire Kharman Gia door to the Vallejo P.D., but only Graysmith (played by Keeanu Reeves...or Christopher? Hmmm) will recognize what the police actually have, as they are too darn stupid. Graysmith, who happened to be in the station house looking for cartoon ideas, rushes forth with the idea that they 'print' the door. The local captain decides to do this but botches the job by using peanut butter.
It will come out that one victim of Z, a waitress no less, is actually a deep cover KGB mole who is acting as a front for the Vallejo Hell's Angels, who are actually fronting an operation to purchase guns for the SLA, who are, of course, really working for Nixon. Cool, eh?
3.Great scene. Gareth Penn rifles through a Mass. phone book while ripped on cough syrup and finds a name. "Eureka! I've got you now you murderous blackheart!", he screams. Years later, when proven wrong, he decides to establish his credentials in the intellect department by solving Fermat's Theorum with dominos.
Anyway, I have the plan. Do you have the cash?
Happy Holidays to all of you who care, to those that don't, and especially to those who, for whatever reason, are feeling down this season. I hope you had a little chuckle.
Oscar the Stud.
p.s. Lapumo, I haven't been posting as much because of my work schedule and travels. My porn addiction is not the issue, believe me! I've got a good grip on my porn.

By Jake Wark (Jake) ( - on Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 03:31 pm:

Hurley wrote:
"And Jake will direct."

You know, something tells me I'd rather direct Oscar's movie...


By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 12:25 am:

But only if Christina Ricci does lots of nude scenes...

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 04:30 am:

Ok, ok, you can have your naked girls. That's the only way Hollywood would want it anyway. And Charlton Heston can play Toshi but as long as he drives a chariot.

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 11:54 am:

Chuck Heston as Toschi, Stallone as Armstrong, Bruce Willis as Narlow, and George Clooney as Lundblad...

By Jake Wark (Jake) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 02:33 pm:

...and Brad Pitt as Z.


By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 04:58 pm:

And Jerry Mathers as the Beaver.

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 05:04 pm:

Scene One: Charlton Heston (Toshi) goes driving off to Lake Herrman Road in his chariot with Rosie O'Donnell (Armstrong)holding on in the back. They pass a chain smoking Brad Pitt who basically confesses to being Zodiac but they ignore him and ride off into the rolling hills to "look for clues".

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 06:17 pm:

You are still perverted; I mean, isn't she a little young for an octogenarian such as yourself? Have some class, man!
Heston/Toschi chasing Z after the Stine (Ron "Enola Gay" Jeremy)murder-rides his chariot into the Presidio grounds but loses Z when he stops for a little impromptou target practice on a homeless man (he is an NRA member after all). Proceeds to drag race with various patrol cars while Z, concealed in the bushes as a Hobbit (played by Mankind), cackles in glee.
Another great scene. Graysmith and Penn are both invited to a Mensa speaking engagement, but proceed to lock horns with one another. Being true intellectual giants, they agree to strip down to their speedos and settle it like Stalin and Trotsky should have- cream corn wrestling!
Ed. Note: Being Oscar's friend, I am going to end it for him right now. He recently broke his left thumb watching a hockey game and is in great pain. The vicodin is working, in conjunction with the Corona, but he is starting to...lose it. MWEEEAGGGHHH!- Tickles (Oscar's pal)

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Monday, December 11, 2000 - 10:42 pm:

Octogenarian?? LOL... I'll have to wait till after 2040 for that to be true... by that time, I'll be eagerly awaiting the near-imminent return of Z at LHR on 12-20-2068 to celebrate the 100th anniversary...

In the meantime, if enjoying naked women makes me perverted, then so be it. I am perverted... LOL!

By Esau (Esau) ( - on Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 03:27 pm:

How about an animated version.
Bullwinkle and Rocky as Toschi and Armstrong.
Baby Huey as Allen.
Mr.Whoopie from Tennesee Tuxedo as O'Hare.

I'm also working on a porn version with that hairy guy with the mustache from all the 80's movies as Zodiac.

By JK (Vassago) ( - on Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 06:09 pm:

How about making it into "Predator III": Zodiac was in reality one of the Predators who, as they all do, came to Earth for hunting but also to test his new cloak - one that not only gave him invisibility but could also make him look like a human by using state of the Predator art, grow-on-demand artificial skin. That's why he looked overweight - a lot of artificial human skin around the muscular body of a Predator made him looked stocky. Once, when his "human" cloak broke down, he improvised and quickly made a black costume that he vaguely remembered from a public execution he saw when visiting Earth last time, circa A.D. 1500. He wrote the papers to make sure that people would think a man was responsible for the murders and would not blame the aliens. His sloppy writing and errors were due to his bad command of human languages. And he threw in all the radian stuff to have a good laugh, thinking mankind was too stupid to comprehend anything of that and see through his plot. A subplot would follow, how, much later, the human race prevailed and one lone man, Garreth Penn, saved its honor by cracking the fiendish code and discovering that the alien killed to leave his signature on the map. Unfortunately, Garreth used human mathematics, which differs in some small details from that of the Predators, and because of that he goofed and found a big Z on the map while in fact it was a big P, for Predator. The movie would end with Zodiac/Predator locking himself in his spaceship in early 1970s to sleep for a couple of days, then waking up and not remembering where he put the door keys to open the ship. The final shot would show the Predator nowadays, in his Zodiac cloak, with a long white beard, still frantically searching the ship for the keys, and a grim message: "He's still there". The sequel, "Predator IV: the Radian Returns", might show Robert Graysmith tracing the ship using some ingenious and mysterious method consisting of applying Herb Caen's name to a projector, entering the ship, releasing the Predator accidentally, and then chasing and fighting him all over the world. He would finally bust him in Switzerland, in a shop selling watches of a certain brand. The final confrontation would also explain the mystery of the 1978 letter once and for all. Kevin Peter Hall would play Z. in the original Predator form and Troma's Joe Fleishaker would play him in the human cloak.

By Gomper (Gomper) ( - on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 07:24 am:

Couldn't we throw Jackie Chan in there somewhere? A little bit of chopsocky is always good. And that Christina Ricci IS sumpin' else, ain't she?


By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 07:50 am:

Well, the guy who found Hartnell and Shepard and raised the alarm was Ronald Fong, so Jackie Chan can play him.

By Jake Wark (Jake) ( - on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 09:39 am:

Maybe Jackie can be doing a tea ceremony on his junk, and see Brad Pitt attacking a crank-addled R. Downey Jr. & Reese Witherspoon, so he rows in and tries to defend them using a mug and spoon. Pitt bobs and weaves, but Jackie grabs a grapefruit from the picnic blanket and screws it onto Pitt's face, a la James Cagney. Pitt flicks a cigarette into Jackie's eye and knocks him unconscious with a spinning roundhouse. Jackie wakes up, sees the carnage, and hightails it to the ranger station, where he meets Ranger White, played by Buddy Hackett. Together, they head back to the scene of the crime, where Hackett announces that this is the most sickening sight he has ever witnessed, and puts an entire pack of Bubble Yum in his mouth.

"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 01:13 pm:

Then they all break into a song and dance number.

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 09:37 pm:

Instead of Jackie Chan, how about Ralph Macchio? Or, better yet, Noriyuki "Pat" Morita (Mr. Miyagi; that was his name, wasn't it???)! One or the other (or both) can attack Z using the Crane... then Z counters with the drum technique...

By Gomper (Gomper) ( - on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 05:24 am:

Those are all fantastic suggestions. Another thing we need to consider is the soundtrack: Maybe there could be a "Zodiac Love Theme" sung by Celine Dion, and some gangsta rap thrown in for good measure.

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 08:06 am:

Yes. And Celine Dion can come riding up to the LB crime scene in a replica of the Titanic singing the "Zodiac Love Theme Song". Ah yes. The gangsta rap. We can put that in at the Wash. Cherry St. scenes.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) ( - on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 08:11 am:

And the real Zodiac can sit back and watch the whole thing on TV, laughing his manhood to oblivion all the while.

By Esau (Esau) ( - on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 08:24 am:

Maybe "2 Live Crew" could come out of retirement for some of the gangsta rap numbers. I think I know where I might be able to get a clip of ALA dressed as "The Big Bopper" doing "Chantilly Lace".

By Lapumo (Lapumo) ( - on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 03:52 am:

Ive just seen Mageau's picture as he is now.
Dead ringer for a younger James Garner.While Iam am not making light of what happened to Mageau,Iam
reminded of Garner as he was in Gunfight at the OK corral.

By Howard (Howard) ( - on Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 12:48 pm:

Jake Wark as Bruce Davis....

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Monday, January 01, 2001 - 02:22 pm:

Howard... maybe we can all do cameos! But I want Schwarzenegger or Stallone to play me...

By Howard (Howard) ( - on Monday, January 01, 2001 - 02:32 pm:

Edn ha! Let your hair down -try Manson!

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Monday, January 01, 2001 - 02:40 pm:

You know, when I let my hair and beard go, I get a really good Manson look going...

By Howard (Howard) ( - on Monday, January 01, 2001 - 03:42 pm:

Ed N. I'll tell Charlie you said that. What did you say your address was?

By Maxson (Maxson) ( - on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 08:02 pm:

I would want Pauly Shore as Faraday. I would pay money to see someone kill him. Jennifer Love Hewitt for Cheri Jo Bates and Neve Campbell as Ferrin. Tommy Lee Jones would have to be in it some how, Toshi maybe. And for the Zodiac killer (drumroll please) Richard Moll, Bull from TV's Night Court!

By Maxson (Maxson) ( - on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 08:05 pm:

One more thing, Zodiac's voice could be played by Ben Stien. That could account for the monotone!

By Ed N. (Edn) ( - on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 11:15 pm:

And just where was Ben Stein in 1968-69???

P.S. Maxson: That's why I wanted Macaulay Culkin as Faraday.

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 02:45 pm:

Brothers and Sisters,
The movie is not going to fly. Nobody seems to recognize this as a viable commercial project, much to my great disappointment. I mean, come onn, Hollywood, what do you want? Chicks, guns, breasts, bondage, gratuitous violence, dementia, and a rocking retro soundtrack- The Seeds, The Amboy Dukes, Moby Grape, the Airplane...Come on!
As a matter of fact, seeing my aforementioned ingredient list, there is no way that this should not be a BROADWAY MUSICAL!! Think of the potential here: Z rhumbas across the parking lot, spraying lead like Sgt. Rock while the ethereal sounds of Sun Ra waft across the gravel...Z on one of those Kung Fu wire rigs flying through the air, singing, "Have you seen the little Piggies..", or Z prancing across the stage in his Berryessa/outraged supermarket bag-boy costume, singing the Lovin' Spoonful's "Summer in the City" (adds a rather novel, and ominous overtone to the first line). Hey, it beats the 55 bucks I plunked down to watch a bunch of emaciated felines lick each others genitals onstage (where was Morris?) in "Cats" (God, the things we do to impress a date!).
I think I have got a real winner of an idea here. Feedback?
Oscar de Laurentis.
p.s. Penn in 2004. MENSA this, Gareth!

By Esau (Esau) ( - on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 03:14 pm:

Nobody took me up on it but I might be able to dig up video of Arthur Leigh Allen dressed as the Big Bopper doing his rendition of "Chantilly Lace" on an early '80's television show called "Putting On The Hits". If you squint your eyes just right towards the audience you can see Sandy's suspect in the background wearing a thong and a feather boa dancing the "cabage patch" dance while The Pips are singing and dancing background sans Gladys Knight. A certain Mathemetician suspect is in the background doing the mashed potato while wearing a pair of Speedo's while he watches excitedly but he has the ability to think of mathematical equations at the right time to avoid embarassment while in the aforementioned Speedo's. There are rumors of Theodore K fiddling around with some of the stage wiring behind the set but that isn't visible in this video. If any of you have ever seen what the real Chantilly Lace looked like you would be amazed at the resemblance to a girl that gave ALA "the brush off" in high school.

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 03:47 pm:

I think a musical is a wonderful idea but better yet a soap opera where the nonsense can just go on and on and on and where Z, the "bad guy" can just go around with a that grocery bag on his head and no one really notices or realizes he's the bad guy. At one point he can actually get married and his new bride questions to herself and anyone who will listen, "well we've been married for seven months now and he still hasn't taken that bag off his head....."

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 01:44 pm:

Dear Hurley-Girly (You Know what I mean...),
New ideas are pouring out of me faster than last nights Genessee Cream Ale. The Muse is indeed bellowing in her iron lung this good aft. Here is my latest Zodiac-related musical concept: Zodiac country-style!! Gareth Penn becomes GARTH PENN, takes to wearing a rhinestone-encrusted, black felt ten gallon hat, aluminum spurs (he'd be concerned about oxidation, don't ya' know), and a pair of fringed lambskin chaps with rubies in the crotch (mood indicators?)! He'd have to walk like a real gone cowpoke- Perhaps he could learn to walk like a guy with the balls big enough to pick on an innocent man by accusing him of serial murder! Song titles- "I've Got No friends in Slow Places (aka 'The Mensa Anthem')", and "The Thunder Rolled...through Mass." How about his new country/Zodiac songs like: "When the Rabbit Chases the O'Hare", "Reach Out and Touch Someone",
"I'm Too Sexy For My Laptop", You Shine, You're RADIANt", and the soon-to-be-immortal, "Hey, Pardner, I Own that Word, So Don't Ya' Be Messin' With Me" (also known as the 'Litigation Blues'). Hey, even better- like Garth Brooks with his weird Chris Gaines alter ego, GARTH PENN can become Mikey O'Harre, and he can have hours of silly fun! I can see it now:
Garth Penn (answers phone):"Yassur, hellooo..?"
Mikey O'Harre (aka Garth Penn): (heavy breathing)"...It's me.."
GP:"Not you again, oh Geesh! sound familiar?"
MH: "I'm watching a Bruins game, thinking of you"
GP:"Are you alone?"
MH: "No. Jake Wark is with me."
GP:" That f*7**#@!, how dare you. I'll sue his a*s off if he doesn't smarten up!"
MH:"Garth, you sound sexy when you get angry. Are you wearing your spurs?"
Anyway, you get the idea. how about it Gareth/Garth, care to take a ride on old "Thundernuts", my champion bull?
With Love,
p.s. I want my money, Gareth!

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:08 pm:

Gareth Brooks and Garth Penn can make a duet and tour the country together. The Zodiac 57 Degrees tour. 57 cities in 57 days. I don't know what Garth Penn looks like but I would kind of like to see him in stovepipe hat like Lincoln.

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:25 pm:

Yeah! With a "Zodstock" concert on the side of Mt. Diablo! Tom can be the concessionaire- selling his Z videos, corn cob holders, Allen trailer replica's, while Jake skulks around and sells hot-off-the-press bootleg Vallejo PD reports (are there any?). EdN will be doing one of those hippy-mandala, I'm-going-to-explode-from-f*ckin'-mirth-Gee-Isn't-the-universe-F*ckin'-Groovy dances while looking resplendent in his Don Ho grass skirt. Lapumo will be passed out in a lawn chair next to Christina Ricci, and Gregorypraxas will be crawling through the field, yelling, "Why do I have no friends?" AlanC, hovering above it all in his quasi-Martian anti-gravitational flotation device, will be heard muttering, "Da@n! These people are...weird!" Howard, dressed like a Baptist preacher on the prowl for new souls, will have the final word: "The Horror..the horror."
p.s. Hurley, I just don't understand why people say WE are weird! Geesh!

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:00 pm:

I know Oscar. What's wierd about this stuff? I just hope it doesn't turn out like the Rolling Stones at Altamont. The real Zodiac will be in charge of security.

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:04 pm:

Nope. Try the Paradice Riders as security for "Zodstock"..much more apropros!

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 08:30 am:

How about Vallejo PD?

By Sandy (Sandy) ( - on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 09:18 pm:

Thank you Ed for letting them know I don't look like Sinead O'Conner. I would rather be shot by Z than look like O'Conner! If any of you would like to see what I realy look like, I played Jane Fonda's friend in "Steel Yard Blues" (the blonde in the short orange mini dress)I was also the hippie eating carmel corn in front of the lion cage, with the long brown hair in the same film. I like Shirley McLaine, but no resemblance to her either.The fonz would be happy to look like Kane, he is a rather good looking man! I would say Kane looks more like Sean Connery ,with and without hair. The voice would be just like Hal, the voice in 2001 Space Odyssey. I was also in Hunters are for killing, starring Burt Reynolds filmed in Napa, at(lake Berryessa) and Santa Rosa Sept-Oct 69. Just another one of my strange coincidence's that some of you have a hard time believing.

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 09:51 pm:

Were you in "Barbarella" as well, or am I the one who is hallucinating?
p.s.Pass the Cream Ale!

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 07:47 am:

I look like Oprah. Hey! I am Oprah! Girlfriend do I got a show for you today!

Ooo Sean Connery....handsome AND dangerous...

By Gomper (Gomper) ( - on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 09:44 am:

Sandy, that's innarestin'. Speaking of movies, were you around at all during the making of the "Zodiac" film?

By Alanc (Alanc) ( - on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 12:36 pm:

Awfully interesting that you picked the voice of HAL as Z's voice, Sandy. It might interest you to know that prior to the filming of SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, Anthony Hopkins watched 2001 about 30 times to get HAL's tone and inflections down pat for the voice of Hannibal Lecter.

By Tom Voigt (Tomvoigt) ( - on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 12:44 pm:

In the 1979 show "Zodiac: Mask of Death" (included in my video, BTW), the guy that did HAL's voice is Z.

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 06:52 pm:

I've got ya' beat: I DID HAL!!
Oscar the Perverted?
p.s. Is that an escape pod, or are you just happy to see me?

By Sandy (Sandy) ( - on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 11:18 pm:

Alan that is very interesting! If its true the z tape was never heard by anyone, then how do "they" know that is just what he sounds like? I know Pam has heard his voice, because we would get phone calls with in minutes of each other.Some of you make fun of her, I have seen the notes he has left her, the wording is very much like the ones I have received. He never said to me this is the zodiac, he only said: Its me. He has told Pam he is the Zodiac! We were both followed by a man having the same plate number at different times. I told her the number, she opened her note book, and she had that same number.That is no coincidence!

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 03:05 am:

True enough, but it doesn't mean it was Z either. If I told you I was Napoleon would you take me at my word? Besides, wouldn't Zodiac, if the original description of his age was remotely accurate, be too old to be chasing girls? (If he has been chasing you for this many years, one must say that he has the stamina of a bull!) Does he follow you in his motorized wheelchair? (smile)
Coincidence does not occur as often as we would like to think. How do you know that you have not been targeted by some admittedly sick creepo who enjoys flusterring a couple of ladies? Pam's connection to the case is well known, and if you have been seen in her company, it would not take much to plan a campaign of intimidation etc. Is my theory any less plausible? Remember Sherlock's dictate about the most likely explanation? It is worth looking up, believe me.

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:27 pm:

Tom has just informed me he will direct the Zodiac Movie. Hey guys, it looks like were going to Cannes!

By Jeffreyfalk (Jeffreyfalk) ( - on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 06:32 pm:

If that's true, can he get me to write (or at least co-write) the screenplay? (I do have a film degree--not that that means anything--and I've written two feature-length screenplays.)
In all seriousness, it would be wonderful if someone who has been seriously following the case does write such a script instead of some uninterested "professional" like the studios tend to hire. Of course, in today's Hollywood, the chances of such a script being written, much less produced, are about as likely as Michael O'Hare being Zodiac.

By Alanc (Alanc) ( - on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 07:26 pm:


That last line is a killer, Jeffrey.

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 09:54 pm:

Nic double entendre, mon ami.
The script is finished and it is hotter than a two dollar pistol! We are also interested in getting funding for Zodiac, the Musical.

By Alanc (Alanc) ( - on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 10:16 pm:

Je suis le Bon Homme Sept-Heures, Oscar.

Write the spoof. I'm serious.

Is O'Hare the only person involved here with a real sense of humor?

By Eduard Versluijs (Eduard) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 12:43 am:

If a Zodiac-movie actually is made by MB-members than it would become a very,very long movie (3X Dances with wolves).
All those story-lines.....


By Jeffreyfalk (Jeffreyfalk) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:48 am:

Perhaps a miniseries would be better ...

By Peterh (Peterh) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 02:19 pm:

Should have the narrative style of "American Psycho"; no clear delineation of fantasy and reality. In other words, I'll get together with Penn, Sandy, Bruce M, Gregory P, Howard and Douglas, and we'll write it as straight and factual as we can.


By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:21 pm:

Oscar, I decided to have a bake sale in order to raise funding for the Zodiac Musical. I've made several rum balls by firing them from a semi-automatic...and chocolate chip cooks made with chocolate covered BB pellets. Actually, one of the ciphers turned out to be a couple of old Z family recipes.

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:28 pm:


Get to it baby. And see if Larry Kane/ Mr. Action News will play the part of Larry Kane of Zodiac fame. He already has experience working with the camera and he wont get confused when people call him Larry.

By Sandy (Sandy) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:49 pm:

Oscar, Pam and I never met until March of 90. I don't care how old he is,he is just in the past two years starting to show signs of ageing.In 1990 he looked mid 5os,and other than a bit of a pot belly, he looked in great shape! Pam and I didn't hang together,she and I were being bothered long before we met in 90. The plate number I had written down was from 1988,I don't remember when she said she got it. So I would have to say, that's more than a coincidence!

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 09:04 pm:

Sure. But it doesn't mean it was Zodiac either! As always, eagerly awaiting your proper narrative so that we can all understand what it is you are trying to say.

By Jeffreyfalk (Jeffreyfalk) ( - on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:16 pm:

I get the impression I'm being mocked. (Not that the whole board isn't participating, I'm sure.) Good try, but Kane isn't on Action News (unless he was years ago, before my time--or has switched recently, for that matter). I'm sure his employers would be upset that you thought of him as working with their competitors. If you know whom I'm talking about, do you think he kind of looks like Fonzie, too (as Mr. Voigt says about the "famous" Kane), or is it just me?
Anyway, I'm sure the last thing he wants is to be associated with a serial killer. It kind of undercuts his charismatic, trustworthy public informer image (kind of like how Walter Cronkite was once "the most trusted man in America").

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 07:45 am:


Lol! I don't care what his employers think! Anyway I think he is on Eyewitness News... and yes he does look like Fonzie..more like father of Fonzie...hey if you don't want to do casting for this film, I'll ask him myself! I'm sure he would be amused, not that he wouldn't think we a little were a little...unsuuusual. I like to think everyone has a sense of humor and I think he does...I'll find out when I ask him to do the film.

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 07:52 pm:

Hey! I'll say it again: not that he wouldn't think we were a little unusual. There!

By The Giant (Bryan) ( on Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 01:55 pm:

My Line-up for the best possible Z movie:
Toschi- the guy who played Carla exhusband in cheers (almost a dead ringer)
Armstrong- Mr Clean
Gareth Penn- Carrot Top
Tom Voight- Tom Voight
Ferrin- B. Kidman
Mageau- Twiggy
Hartnell- The nerd kid on "ED"
Shepherd- Christina Applegate
Stine- Speaking of "ED"
Johns- Mclaine
Hines- Peter Fonda
Allen- Burt Ward
Kane- Al Pacino
Bates- Courtney Cox
The Vallejo P.D.- Keystone Cops
Farraday- Mike Meyers
Jensen- Pamila Anderson
Graysmith- Meat head from All in the family
Jake- Charlie Shean
Sandy- Goldie Hawn

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 02:56 pm:

Eduard V,

Speaking of 3X, I'm sure that's probably the rating it would receive too.

By Eduard Versluijs (Eduard) ( - on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 12:36 am:

Hurley, you are right! If EdN. writes the script and Christina Ricci acts in the Z-movie...
It would get that rating!

By Sandy (Sandy) ( - on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 07:44 am:

Thanks Bryan I like Goldie, we are about the same size, coloring, and we both like to dance.She worked at a club in Santa Anna in the early 60s as a go-go dancer.(some of you might like to know that.) I lived in the next town over, Anaheim. We both laugh a lot, but the one who I am told I look the most like is Connie Stevens. She is a bit heavier,and 4in. taller, but we are the same age. In the 60s some guy told people I was her, and he had me signing autographs. Maybe this stalker was a Connie Stevens fan?

By Alanc (Alanc) ( - on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 03:11 pm:

Likely as not.

By Esau (Esau) ( - on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 04:58 pm:

Matt - Clint Eastwood

By Oscar (Oscar) ( - on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 08:13 pm:

Has anyone heard of a punk rock band called "The Zodiac Killers"? I saw them on the front cover of "Maximum Rock 'n'Roll, a rather notable music magazine. While living in Cleveland several years ago (talk about fun!), I once saw an alternative country band called, I kid you not, "The Dahmers". What's next...dare I ask?
Morally Outraged...and loving it!
p.s. Penn in 2004. Do the Do!

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 06:58 am:

Hey Oscar,

I saw the Jack Rubies in Philadelpiha....

By Ed N. (Ed_N) ( - on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 12:13 pm:

Wasn't there a Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs back in the 50's? Their music was often featured on Happy Days, as I recall...

By Hurley (Hurley) ( - on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 01:49 pm:

Happy Days....Mhm...Henry Winkler/Fonzie...Lawrence Kane....didn't someone say he looked like Fonzie..."Zodiac" music on Happy Days...I definately see a connection now...

Eddin' I don't really know...I wonder what songs they sang...

By Jake (Jake) ( - on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 02:14 pm:

Maurice Williams & the Zodiacs sang "Stay" -- "Won't you staaa-aay / Just a little bit longerrr..."

"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."

By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) ( - on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 06:50 pm:

Don Rickles would make a good Allen.

Rickles Allen

By Valentine Smith (Valentinesmith) ( - on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 10:23 pm:

Not to bust up this little party...BUT...can anybody tell me more about this "Limbic Region" movie? Is it good? Is it at ALL accurate? And is it available for rental?

I'm really amazed that there hasn't been a high-profile Zodiac film. It would be SO easy. And it would be a huge success.

I found From Hell to be terribly disappointing. Especially if you read the graphic novel it was based on, which is the best piece of Ripperology I've ever read, despite Moore's (detailed and footnoted) admissions to fictionalizing certain aspects.

A Zodiac film, even a somewhat fanciful one featuring an amalgam of the top suspects would be terrific! It could be done on a modest budget, with an A-level cast, and that great soundtrack mentioned above, and it would be HUGE.

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 11:47 pm:

It came out in 1996, and was rather obviously but loosely based on Z. Check out The Limbic Region at

By Prisk29 (Prisk29) ( - on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:17 am:

It is available for rental. I found it at a tiny video place near my home; if such a place carries it, a larger chain should as well. To be honest, I do not really remember that much about it; though it was only about 4 or 5 months ago that I saw it. Maybe that says something about it.
I don't recall thinking it sucked. On the other side of that coin however, I don't recall being impressed with it either.
As far as its accuracy is concerned, the film only lighty touches on some of the aspects of the Z case if I recall correctly. So don't look at it as if it were a documentary. You'll only be disapointed if you do.
Otherwise, good luck with it.

By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) ( - on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 09:12 am:

Its a fictional movie about a serial killer based on the things in the Z case. The Berryessa/costume attack, the Kathleen Johns car trick, the letters and the serial killer resembles ALA. However since its fiction, the ending is different from the Z case ie. it was solved.

Its certainly not a documentary, but you will recognize many things in their from the Z case.

I didn't find it bad, but it wasn't great either, yet its worth watching if you are interested in Z.

By Ed N (Ed_N) ( - on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:30 pm:

There are a few notables in The Limbic Region besides Edward James Olmos and George Dzundza: Don S. Davis (General Hammond from Stargate: SG-1), Gwynyth Walsh (Klingon sister B'Etor from Star Trek), and William B. Davis ("cigarette smoking man" from The X-Files, although you only get to see his reflection and hear his voice).

While it certainly isn't on a par with Citizen Kane or something similar, I rather liked the story and their interpretation of the crimes despite the way they altered the events it was based on. Basically, the only ones who would watch this flick are die-hard fans of one or more of the actors and/or Z investigators (or maybe if you were really, really bored and there was nothing else of interest on TV).