Charlie Chan At Treasure Island
Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Zodiac Media: Charlie Chan At Treasure Island
|By Esau (Esau) (proxy2-external.scrmnt1.ca.home.com - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 06:54 am:|
I finally saw Charlie Chan At Treasure Island. I am now convinced that Zodiac was influenced enough by this movie that he chose the name of the movie's villain for his own. Not only was the movie set in San Francisco but in the movie Dr Zodiac writes a letter that says "Sign of scorpio indicates disaster if Zodiac obligations ignored". Sounds kind of like "I get lonely when I'm ignored, so lonely I could do my thing!!!!". Charlie Chan makes an observation to say that Zodiac enjoys laughing at police. I think that the movie was where he chose his name and I think that his name is why he chose the crossed circle from the Zodiac watch.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (152.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 07:03 am:|
In the order of things the crossed circle came first and the name Zodiac second.
|By Esau (Esau) (proxy1-external.scrmnt1.ca.home.com - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 08:04 am:|
I don't see how you can possibly tell.
|By Jake (Jake) (spider-tj084.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 08:25 am:|
"I don't see how you can possibly tell."
The first letters bore the design, but not the moniker. The name "Zodiac" didn't appear until the August '69 letter to the Examiner.
I think Tom mentioned once that Arthur Allen was born in Hawaii, whence Chan & co. had come on their way back to the Bay area. Allen almost certainly was familiar with the movie, and it's an interesting coincidence that he surely would have noted. In an interesting case of Zynchronicity (tm), Paul Avery was from Hawaii, as well, just like the movie's reporter.
"This is the Zodiac Speaking..."
|By Esau (Esau) (proxy2-external.scrmnt1.ca.home.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 08:38 am:|
If Zodiac was acting out his ultimate fantasy I would think that his whole personna would have been created before his first killing. Just because he doesn't refer to his chosen name before he sings a letter with the crossed circle doesn't mean that he had thought of the crossed circle first. We can speculate but we won't know for sure until and if this case is solved.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (55.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 01:19 pm:|
True, Esau, but the case may never be solved unless someone has the fortitude to speculate. Speculate on, I say.
|By Esau (Esau) (proxy2-external.scrmnt1.ca.home.com - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 01:28 pm:|
Inserting the words "may have" into speculatory sentences always helps to distinguish the difference between fact and opinion. I am a student of this case. Not a teacher. I refuse to speculate without a speculum.
|By Lapumo (Lapumo) (p67.as2.dungarvan1.eircom.net - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 02:03 pm:|
Douglas wrote:-"In the order of things the crossed circle came first and the
True,unless of course,Z in Riverside stands for Zodiac.
|By Sandy (Sandy) (c531918-a.ptbrg1.sfba.home.com - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 02:36 pm:|
Have we forgotten the z at the bottom of the 4/30/67 Riverside letter?
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (63.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 04:22 pm:|
"I refuse to speculate without a speculum."
And I refuse to rectify without a ... but we'll leave that for another time.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 05:26 pm:|
I posted on the Chan film-please see.
|By Esau (Esau) (proxy2-external.scrmnt1.ca.home.com - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 05:42 pm:|
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-12.linkline.com - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 01:37 am:|
Esau-Look under key words and click Charlie Chan ; Chan, and Treasure Island. One post I did was 1/12/01 under: How did Zodiac pick his name?I just did a few points-the rest is in a supplement for my book.
|By Ed N. (Ed_N) (spider-ntc-ta071.proxy.aol.com - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 01:20 pm:|
I recall seeing many years ago (but not first-run!) the three-part Batman
episode entitled "The Zodiac Crimes" (Part I), "The Joker's Hard
Times" (Part II), and "The Penguin Declines" (Part III), originally
January 11th, 12th and 18th, 1967. Based on the titles, it's obvious that the Joker (Cesar Romero) and the Penguin (Burgess Meredith) were the bad guys in that episode.
An interesting aside that Tom pointed out to me that should be obvious to everyone by now: Cesar Romero was in both Charlie Chan at Treasure Island and Batman's "The Zodiac Crimes." What does it mean? I don't know. Is it zynchronicity, or did Z merely happen to admire Cesar Romero, and so took "Zodiac" from the movie and TV?
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-67.linkline.com - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 02:01 am:|
EdN.-I have posted (and a section in my book has the info on the Zodiac crimes in Batman)on the Batman Zodiac crimes some time back. I did a supplement for my book that brought out that Romero played in the BM episode and in the Chan film.
|By Ed N. (Ed_N) (spider-mtc-tj031.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 10:40 am:|
Howard: thanks for reminding me! It's been a while since I read your book, and shame on me for forgetting! I'm too young to be having these senior moments...
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-57.linkline.com - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 01:42 am:|
Ed N.-75 is'nt that "young" John-er Frank...
|By Alan Cabal (Alan) (spider-to057.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 05:03 am:|
Youth is relative.
|By Steve (Steve) (proxy-1366.public.svc.webtv.net - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 09:11 am:|
I think the Zodiacs signiture symbol came first. (As in the cross-hairs of a gun scope) Then any number of things could have influenced this fairly simple person into taking his zodiac title. Just my opinion Steve
|By Alan Cabal (Alan) (spider-mtc-ta064.proxy.aol.com - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 10:22 am:|
"Fairly simple"? Thank God we're all so fabulously complex.
|By Steve (Steve) (proxy-1316.public.svc.webtv.net - 184.108.40.206) on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 12:48 pm:|
Hi Alan, what I mean is this, I don't think our Zodiac was as smart as we are giving him credit for. He walked away from the stein murder because the dispatcher announced BMA. instead of WMA. It doesn't take a expert marksman to walk up to a parked car and shoot unsuspecting couples like they where in a fish bowl. and it doesn't take a samuri warrior to stab a couple after having them tied up. I know this is all for a different thread i'm sorry.
|By Alan Cabal (Alan) (spider-mtc-ta063.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 02:06 am:|
His diabolical brilliance consists not in the murders, but in the remarkable ambiguity of the texts. He was the first authentically postmodern serial killer. That's what made O'Hare look so good as a suspect.
|By Wendi (Wendi) (dpc6682009048.direcpc.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 02:39 pm:|
For some strange reason I recently aquired DVD's loosely related to Z. It started with Charlie Chan at Treasure Island last month, then two weeks ago I picked up The Most Dangerous Game, and yesterday, I picked up a DVD copy of The Mikado. Go figure....I haven't even watched any of them.I have no idea why I felt compelled to get them...I'll just blame Tom, that always seems to work.
|By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (user-2ivec24.dialup.mindspring.com - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 07:27 pm:|
Watch THE MIKADO, and then rent TOPSY-TURVY.
Then go on to the others.