Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Zodiac Media: Zodiac Vortex
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-4-219.home.cgocable.net - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 12:50 pm:|
I like the multimedia aspect of computers so I made some Zodiac stuff and put it on my
web site. I made a program using Shockwave that shows what Zodiac would look like with
I made some other stuff to, like images of the top suspects morphing into the Zodiac.
|By Oddball (Oddball) (slip-32-103-46-22.al.us.prserv.net - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 07:54 pm:|
Fine website, Ryan! Very good images and graphics(that photo of Kane/Cane was particularly interesting to me).
|By Esau (Esau) (12-246-187-137.client.attbi.com - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 09:56 pm:|
Ryan, great website. I'll be checking it periodically. I bookmarked it.
|By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-ntc-td062.proxy.aol.com - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 10:13 pm:|
That suspect morphing is really cool. I was amazed at how easily Davis morphed into the Z composite, but Allen was really a difficult fit.
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-4-219.home.cgocable.net - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 10:27 pm:|
Thanks, I had fun making it.
Yes, the Allen one was least resembled Z. The other 3 are somewhat creepy as to how close they resembled Z. I don't really know how relevant the morphs and the Zodiac Disguise Program are, simply resembling the description is not enough to convict. But the Zodiac case has been somewhat stale as of late, so at the very least its something to talk about.
|By Joe (Joe) (adsl-63-204-72-127.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net - 220.127.116.11) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 10:31 pm:|
Be interesting to see the morphing tried on an actual case like Son of Sam and David Berkowitz.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-68.linkline.com - 18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 12:12 am:|
congrats' on your site!You seem to be taking a presentation approach and this is fine.There are two things I would like to bring up relative to my Zodiac postulates.I wish you would have consulted me before making statements about my project.
Bruce Davis has at least seven styles of printing and cursive writing(some of which are very similar to Zodiacs writing) so we should,for the sake of correctness,bring this fact out.Many of his exemplars are latter 1980's-90's and all Experts are agreed that ones handwriting changes over time.I get a little tired of this misrepresentation of my suspects writing.You have heard "say what you want about me, but spell my name correctly."Well,you can say what you want about me,but get my suspects facts straight!
Also,many believe that Zodiac did not really employ his ordinary mode or style of writing when he wrote his "Zodiac" missives.It is very possible that Z utilized some form of tracing methodology and there are several.He certainly was of that frame of mind as he wrote of "my disguise",'coated finger tips',paper pack with the last pages being sent to the police and news paper to avoid tracing the typewriter,changing weapons,different cars,etc.
Lastly, I do not advocate that two men were at each Zodiac attack; so your web site statements or arguments that Mageau and Hartnell saw only one person are not germane to my thesis.I hope you change your wording,if you wish to reflect my proposition.I believe that, essentially, Zodiac was one person.I,of course, believe that more than one person was involved in the Zodiac crimes,but not a large number of persons as you indicate on your site.We are speaking about the intimate details of the Zodiac crime scenario.Again,probably,in my view,only one person carried the Zodiac murders out.
Just as a matter of shear speculation we could say, and I am not saying I affirm this as a fact,but was another person in Zodiacs car at LHR?No one could deny this one way or another as our two victims did not survive.Was a person in Z's car at BRS?In this case,I don't think that Mageaus vantage point ,traumatized condition and the fact it "was dark out and hard to see"would rule out if there was another individual in Z's car.The same holds for LB as Hartnell never saw Z's automobile and neither did anyone see his car at S.F.I personally do not believe there was another person in Zodiacs car,but your statement that those two witnesses did not see anyone does not hold up in view of case facts and witness vantage points.
Your site will grow and if it is anything like it is now ,it will be even better.Good work!The movie 'morphs' are highly creative.
|By Jake (Jake) (spider-wa071.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 07:04 am:|
Ryan, your site is totally PHAT! The graphics are great and the whole look is very
modern. I'll have a link up by this weekend.
One minor point, however, is that you mention that Z was always described as wearing glasses: in fact, he was described by Hartnell, Foukes & Zelms, and Johns as wearing glasses, but not Mageau or the three SF witnesses.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:33 pm:|
Do you mean clip on sun glasses at LB?I know some reports indicate that BH may have seen glasses beyond the hood slits but it very uncertain.If you have other info on this it would be of interest.Of course, the Sonoma and LB composites- if it is Zodiac, which again, is highly doubtful,were without glasses.Thanx.
|By Boojum (Boojum) (188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 03:35 pm:|
Fantastic work, Ryan!
|By Jake (Jake) (spider-ti071.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 10:40 am:|
"I know some reports indicate that BH may have seen glasses beyond the hood slits but it very uncertain."
Clarification time: it was Cecelia who stated that the attacker was wearing eyeglasses before he donned the hood (see the Napa reports). Bryan didn't see him unmasked, but said that he didn't think Z was wearing glasses beneath the hood.
This jibes pretty well with the Clark Kent Disguise: Z rolls up wearing glasses for the benefit of any witnesses, then removes them once he puts on the hood because he doesn't need them to see. Ditto with Presidio Heights: he commits the crime wearing glasses, then removes them for his getaway. Not a very sophisticated "descise," I'll admit, but it fits the facts.
|By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (spider-ntc-tc071.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 01:51 pm:|
Your website ROCKS! I've played your avi stuff over and over again; it's very fascinating. Keep up the good work!
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (spider-ntc-ta074.proxy.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 03:20 am:|
Clarification time #II!I know about CS's statement concerning Zodiac wearing glasses.I was remarking about the possibility that BH MAY have seen a glint of another pair of glasses through the hood slits.
I was referring to your 12/18/01 post above which indicates BH reported Z wearing "glasses", so I wanted clarification as to whether you meant the clip- ons or if you had information that could give credence to Graysmiths statement on BH possibly seeing ANOTHER pair of glasses through the hood openings:"Bryan looked up at the black cloth hood with clip- on dark glasses covering the eye holes.Beneath the slits of the hood did he [Hartnell]catch the metallic glint of yet another pair of glasses"?
When you view the context it almost seems as if Hartnell told Graysmith of a possible view of ANOTHER set of glasses during their interview.He did see dark brown sweaty ,greasy hair so he could possibly have seen whether Z was wearing glasses.Do you see why I asked you that particular question?Please READ my posts.This should be CLEAR enough for a proper answer.
I know the PD reports don't refer to this possibilty or that he did see another set of glasses.I will still review them on that one particular remark when I return from vacation.
|By Peter H (Peter_H) (pool-141-154-40-58.bos.east.verizon.net - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 04:55 am:|
If the LB perp wasn't wearing "another" pair of glasses, what were the clip-ons clipped onto?
|By Mike_D (Mike_D) (spider-tf014.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 11:13 am:|
Possibly the material of the hood.Around the nose.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (spider-mtc-ti054.proxy.aol.com - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 12:57 pm:|
According to the reports,BH said the clip-on sun glasses were fastened on the edges of the hoods eye slits or"holes".No doubt,this was done to conceal his face as much as possible(after MM's ID at BRS he would be face shy in broad daylight and if this mission had to be aborted for any reason he didn't want to be ID'd again!)but as Zodiac moved the cloth hood changed its configuration and BH could see inside.He was 'straining 'to observe anything he could because at that time he didn't know of Z's plan for his proposed demise!
|By Jake (Jake) (spider-to042.proxy.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 05:00 pm:|
Howard, relax and ease off the caps. I read your post and responded to it as clearly as
I could. Cecelia told Mrs. White at the scene that Z was "wearing glasses, with dark
clip-on sunglasses over the hood." I guess there will now be a debate as to whether
the eyeglasses were worn inside or outside the hood, and what that means about Z's
eyesight and his decision to use the knife rather than the gun. Bryan did not see Z
pre-hood, but judging from his interview with the police, did not see any glint of
anything beneath said hood. This is all in the Napa reports that Tom has posted on this
very site, by the way.
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (spider-ntc-td054.proxy.aol.com - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 12:13 am:|
Mrs.White reported that CS told her that "...she[CS]could not see responsibles face as a hood was covering all of his face...and that the perp...had what appeared to be clip-on sunglasses to cover his eyes." Mrs.White states at another point when she first got to CS that CS told her that the perp"... was wearing glasses,with dark clip-on sunglasses over the hood."
Now,just examining this report only -there are several more with even more details-we could make a case that CS meant to say that the perp wore glasses or clip-ons on his hood and that in her extreme pain and the emotions Mrs.White was no doubt experiencing at that time, the account came out that the man had two sets of glasses on.Both could have somewhat jumbled the observation and this would be understandable considering the shocking trauma being played out that day.
To me,and just considering this report only, there is a possibility that CS could have said in her deep anguish 'he was wearing glasses-clip-on sunglasses on his hood.'It all hinges on the word "with" or he"...was wearing glasses,with dark clip-on sunglasses over the hood."The expression, and you are correct,"over the hood"is subject to debate for those that what to explore such things."Over" is not quite a correct word to use here and so maybe "with" wasn't either!
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-4-219.home.cgocable.net - 18.104.22.168) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 04:24 pm:|
Update at Zodiac Vortex:
2 photos of Larry Kane from the documentary "Case Reopened".
1 photo and 1 sound file of Bruce Davis from the documentary "Charles Manson - The Man Who Killed The 60's". Bruce talks about how murder was "another day at the farm".
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-160-190.home.cgocable.net - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 09:03 pm:|
I put some photo's of the step father of Kenny Kilgore in the suspects section.
|By Peter H (Peter_H) (pool-141-154-20-97.bos.east.verizon.net - 126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 10:04 am:|
Ryan: You sure photos 1 and 2 are the same guy? The differences between the two seem like a lot more than can be accounted for by 7 years. And what is the year of the third photo?
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-160-190.home.cgocable.net - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 12:38 pm:|
Yeah they do look a bit different.
I'll check into the years of these photos to make sure.
|By Peter H (Peter_H) (pool-141-154-21-75.bos.east.verizon.net - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 06:04 am:|
"A bit"? Hair color, teeth, sunken eyes, facial weight loss, shape of the jaw, no glasses, general aging . . . . Something serious happend to this guy after 1971. Odd thing (and the only clue that it is indeed the same guy) is the hairline: not only is it distinctive -- note the notch just to the left of the crown -- it is exactly the same in both of the first two shots. No further receding, despite all the deterioration in other features. Weird.
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 09:46 am:|
Some more photos of Jack.
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d150-160-190.home.cgocable.net - 18.104.22.168) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 10:59 am:|
Here's an odd referrer I found to my site. Its my site translated in another language.
I think its Spanish.
Vortice Dello Zodiac
|By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (spider-ntc-ta083.proxy.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 02:18 pm:|
Nope, that's Italian.
|By Jake (Jake) (spider-to041.proxy.aol.com - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 08:41 pm:|
And it means "Spiral pasta in a red wine sauce."
--Jake "The 'M' is for 'Mangia'" Wark
|By Prisk29 (Prisk29) (lbv-ca25-247.rasserver.net - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 01:31 am:|
Great site Ryan. Awesom graphics, and jeez is that Jack dude creepy or what? One tiny
thing though (and I have not really read through the whole thread here so forgive me if I
am being redundant), and that is on your victims page you have it as Jensen & Faraday
being shot in a parking lot. It was the tiny recessed drive to the pumping station @ Lake
And Jake, "Spiral pasta in a red wine sauce"? It never gets old;-)