Chandra: What a bizarre development...


Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Theories: Chandra: What a bizarre development...

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (acb6aefe.ipt.aol.com - 172.182.174.254) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:08 pm:

For those of you who haven't read my latest update, click here.

By Boojum (Boojum) (229.new-york-08rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net - 12.88.174.229) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 03:41 pm:

Chandra Levy sure does get a lot of attention for a missing person. It's kind of funny that nobody seems too interested in finding out who she was sleeping with at FBI. She's probably alive and well with a nice new nose and a decent hairdo somewhere in Costa Rica.

By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d141-193-74.home.cgocable.net - 24.141.193.74) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 04:27 pm:

Tom, I understand why you were not going to acknowledge this. Although it was an interesting little story, its just a coincidence, that's all. Anyone who reads any more into that needs to get some help.

Just in case though I checked that letter Gary Condit sent to his constituents.
- Condit did not address his letter by saying "This is Gary Condit speaking..."
- The only bomb he mentioned was his plan to do TV interviews.

Boojum, Chandra maybe be in Costa Rica. Unfortunately I think it would be a Costa Rica graveyard.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (acb58e33.ipt.aol.com - 172.181.142.51) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 04:32 pm:

But wait! Washington D.C...
1) There's that water connection again
2) D.C. = Detective Comics (Batman)

Seriously, adding a new thread here is a better alternative for me than answering a bunch of e-mail.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (dialup-63.214.116.76.dial1.boston1.level3.net - 63.214.116.76) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:00 am:

Tom:

I can understand the eerie feeling that these circumstances must leave you with. However, you may have heard the (apocryphal?) story of the Titanic passenger who thought she caused the collision because it happend just as she threw a light switch. The formal term for her reasoning is "post ea ergo propter ea" (after it therfore because of it) one of the classical logical fallacies.

Its quite a coincidence. Could you tell us why you chose that particular high school for your post? Trying to find someone who knew KJ?

By Peter H (Peter_H) (dialup-63.214.116.76.dial1.boston1.level3.net - 63.214.116.76) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:26 am:

Tom: Just reread your update, and want to clarify that last request: I get that you picked it for promoting the site, but why to a school with such a remote -- if any -- connection to Z? Is this on a long list of schools with connections to the case? Intrigued by the marketing technique . . .

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-ntc-tc084.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.17.59) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:26 am:

AND Chandra means "full moon" in Hindu.
Did Davis have a son Howard?

By The Fife (Thefife) (host020.bro.capgroup.com - 148.107.10.20) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:04 am:

Sylvie,

Other than meaning "moon" in Hindi the funny thing is Chandra is considered a boy's name.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (ac89be74.ipt.aol.com - 172.137.190.116) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:33 am:

Sylvie, why don't you try e-mailing the person when you have a specific question for them.
Again.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (ac89be74.ipt.aol.com - 172.137.190.116) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:36 am:

Peter H. wrote:
"Intrigued by the marketing technique . . ."

I chose Davis High because the number of registered alumni indicated it had been around a long time.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-ntc-ta042.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.16.37) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 01:55 pm:

TV,
Was meant to be facetious, never mind.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (ac8a2ffd.ipt.aol.com - 172.138.47.253) on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:04 am:

Speaking of Chandra Levy: on the drive home from work at night, I often listen to Art Bell, and one night a month or so back, his guest was Ed Dames. He's retired army, and was with the army's remote viewing project back in the 70's. His uses his ability to find missing children and their killers, and was asked by Art Bell to see what he could find on Chandra. He claims that she was murdered, and her body was dumped in the Potomac. They're developing a suspect also...

The implications for Z are obvious. I e-mailed him on August 7th and asked if he would be interested in developing a suspect, especially considering that BLJ was 16, DAF was 17, and CJB was 18, since this fits in with his current project Goldeneye. Unfortunately, I received no reply, so I take it he's not interested. Perhaps someone else would like to try...

At this point, perhaps all avenues should be exhausted before too much more time goes by. Ed Dames' site is www.trvinstitute.com, and his e-mail address is EdDames@psispymaster.com.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (dialup-63.214.66.165.dial1.boston1.level3.net - 63.214.66.165) on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 08:21 am:

Murdered and dumped in the Potomac! Of course! Little wonder that such a clever solution has eluded us for so long!
Remote viewing, indeed. Given the time and place, "murdered and dumped in the Potomac" is nothing more or less than a very high probability, obvious guess, perhaps the highest probability, all else being equal. It would be anybody's first guess, which is why the otherwise clueless DC police, without any specific reason to go on, have already conducted a thorough physical search of the environs, including Rock Creek Park, which is probably the second most obvious probability.
The Potomac, for miles in either direction of DC, is one of the most heavily traveled waterways in the country. If the body were just dumped, it is highly unlikely that it would not have turned up by now. (The Potomac is tidal from about Georgetown on down, so a body is not going to be washed much farther downstream than where it was dumped). If, on the other hand, some care was taken that it not be discovered for a while, such as tying and weighting, that would indicate some kind of organized and/or premeditated effort. If you are gong to go to any such kind of effort, why dump the evidence in your own front yard? Conclusion? Mr. Dames is just guessing, and guessing wrong. I can understand why he would not be interested in a challenge that does not present such an obvious, high likelihood outcome.
After 30+ years, if a "remote vewing" Z solution were possible, shouldn't it have flashed some reliable psychic synapse by now?
OK, Tom, were probably off-topic, here. How about a new thread: "The Calculus of Madame Cleo"?

By Ed N (Ed_N) (ac9549f8.ipt.aol.com - 172.149.73.248) on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:41 pm:

Peter: who knows if it really works? I've heard it said that it did, and I've also heard that they batted about .000. But, if it does, then I say, give it a chance (if he's interested, that is). Dames explains that his "technical remote viewing" is different and superior to what psychics can do, because they can rarely actually pinpoint such things as bodies, but he claims he can do it with his refined methods. Other than his claims on Art Bell's show, and what he has on his website, I know nothing about him, except that he's charging several thousand $$$ to teach others his methods. That's a lot to fork out for something that doesn't work (and the students will discover that right away).

You wrote:

If, on the other hand, some care was taken that it not be discovered for a while, such as tying and weighting, that would indicate some kind of organized and/or premeditated effort. If you are gong to go to any such kind of effort, why dump the evidence in your own front yard? Conclusion? Mr. Dames is just guessing, and guessing wrong.

Hmmm. Why would one bury evidence under one's house? If you're going to kill someone and make the premeditated effort of getting rid of the body, don't you think you'd drive to another state and dump it? Gacy couldn't be bothered, and was caught with all that evidence "in his own front yard," in a manner of speaking.

Peter, killers tend to be morons, and do stupid things like that, which is why many of them get caught. Considering that the DC police have demonstrated themselves to be nothing more than a bunch of incompetent Keystone Kops, it's not surprising that if Chandra's body is in the Potomac, they haven't found it yet. If they really were good, then DC wouldn't have one of the highest crime rates in the US.

In any case, as JBS Haldane is credited with saying:

The universe is not only stranger than we can imagine, it's stranger than we can imagine.

I'm not content to rule something out just because it sounds incredible; I try to keep an open mind about things. You should try it once in a while too. Even if Dames did only guess, I'd still like to wait and see what he comes up with regarding her killer. He just might strike paydirt (if the Keystone Kops are willing to listen), and, if so, then I think he should give Z a go. If he fizzles, then nothing lost except a few moments spent replying to you. No big deal.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (dialup-63.214.97.239.dial1.boston1.level3.net - 63.214.97.239) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 06:23 am:

EdN:

I? Rule something out because it seems incredible? I'm the chief proponent of Occam's LB Special, remember? I'm not ruling anything out based on how it seems or otherwise. I am looking askance at a claim that is logically and inherently suspect. Your reasoning on the mental capacity of most killers supports my point. Morons would have just dumped her in the river, where she would have been discovered in a couple of days at the most. To prevent discovery, the body would have to be weighted and taken to the middle of the channel. There isn't a bridge in the area where this could have been done at any time of day without attracting attention, so the morons needed a boat. And a secure launching place. So we're talking about morons who would have blown it or planning and organization that would certainly use some other disposal site.
As for forking out $$ for something that doesn't work, that's the reason for the Madame Cleo reference:happens all the time "There's a sucker born every minute". At least.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (233.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.17.233) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 08:07 am:

Peter, are you familiar with the Joyce Chiang case? Her body was in the Potomac for about four months before it finally surfaced near Alexandria, Va., about eight miles downstream of where they found her identification and torn coat some four months earlier. I agree with your observation that the body would have to be weighted and/or taken to the middle of the channel. Anyone who has ever been over the Potomac on I-95 will attest that the water is very shallow at that point. Of course there are a lot of marinas in the area, and I tend to agree that whoever committed the crime probably had access to a boat. There's no way you could dump a body off a bridge in that area and not be observed.

By The Fife (Thefife) (host020.bro.capgroup.com - 148.107.10.20) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 09:06 am:

Hey,

I'm wondering why the fixation on the Potomac? Wouldn't it be of greater effect and easier to cover to just take a small craft out to sea a ways and dump a weighted body?

Tom F

By Boojum (Boojum) (152.new-york-06rh16rt-ny.dial-access.att.net - 12.88.171.152) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 09:18 am:

Given Chandra Levy's attraction to powerful men, her willingness to "sleep around" to further her ambitions, and Condit's position on the House Intelligence Committee, I have every good reason to doubt that she is dead at all.

Why the focus on Condit? He wasn't the only powerful man in DC that she was sleeping with. What about her boyfriend in the FBI? The whole story stinks of some kind of black op.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (ac8b3213.ipt.aol.com - 172.139.50.19) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 09:25 am:

The only reason is that Ed Dames claims to have used his technical remote viewing ability and claims that he pinpointed the location of her body in the Potomac. IF the Keystone Kops decide to follow up on his information, maybe they'll find it. But then again, maybe he's a huckster and just guessed. I don't know... but I do know that if I forked out a lot of $$$ and it turned out I'd been had, I'd be getting said $$$ back, one way or another (I also pointed out that Art Bell's been had before too, so it wouldn't be the first time). Since he seems to have trained at least two other people in TRV so far, it might just be possible that he really can do it. And, if so, I say let him have a go at Z (if he has any interest in doing so). Maybe he'll find something no one else has in the last 32 years.

And Peter: I've never been to DC, and know nothing of what the Potomac is like. Maybe the perp did have access to a boat, or maybe he "borrowed" (read "stole") one. I don't have the answers, I'm just relating what Dames reported, for whatever it's worth.

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (acb5286a.ipt.aol.com - 172.181.40.106) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:28 am:

Guys, I started this thread to discuss Chandra's supposed connection to Z...

By Peter H (Peter_H) (dialup-63.214.119.196.dial1.boston1.level3.net - 63.214.119.196) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:58 am:

First Tom V: This time, I don't think we've really got off topic. All this is relevant to the discussion of getting someone who says he has perceived something about CL to come in on Z. I am arguing that what he says about Cl shows he can't help on Z. Please, Tom, bear with us.

Douglas: Sure am. I was there a the time. And good point. All the more reason for Dames to make that his first guess. Chiang was originally ruled a suicide and closed, now reopened as a homicide in light of all the parallels to CL. Including the place last seen, about 100 feet from CL's last siting. Discovery of the body tends to prove the point: it was actually closer to 4 miles down stream, but in any event, not much movement for 4 months in a river. So maybe the perps got it right this time and CLs body will never appear. Whether Dames is guessing right or wrong, the greater point is that he's guessing, and taking by far the most obvious, highest probability shot. There is no such obvious first guess in any of the Z related killings, so it is no wonder Dames won't take it up.

Fife: The pont about the boat is that it shows a lot of planning and premeditation, fairly elaborate logistics, way beyond anything characteristic of either Z or similar predator/opportunist. And yes: getting a body on to the boat and launched is the hard part. Once that is done, why stick around? Its a hop and a skip to the Chesapeake and deeper water, hungry crabs, etc.

EdN:

I know you're just informing and not necessarily advocating with respect to Dames, but once you set 'em up, you gotta expect someone to knock em dwon. Or try.

Ok, Tom V, back to you and the possible (?) Z connection: law enforcement and California. Check out this quote from a story on the reopening of the Chiang investigation: {also note Chief Ramsey's note of caution, which many here would do well to heed)

"There may or may not be a connection between Joyce's case and Chandra Levy's case, we don't know, but we need to have a careful examination to see if there is a pattern of crime in the Washington DC area," Roger Chiang [brother] said. "There's some similarities that are involved between Chandra's case and my sister's case, Joyce's case. One is the location, the Dupont Circle community of Washington DC both were successful women, both worked for branches of the justice department. Joyce for the immigration and naturalization services, Chandra for the department of prisons. They were also small, petite, dark-haired women, and they both are from California, and they both have families from California."

" It's easy to see how people connect dots," said [DC Police} Chief Ramsey. "We need facts."

By Peter H (Peter_H) (dialup-63.214.119.196.dial1.boston1.level3.net - 63.214.119.196) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 12:06 pm:

Correction:

Joyce Chiang's body was in fact discovered eight miles from Anacostia Park, where her ID was found (no coat), but there is no evidence as to where or when it entered the water. The duration of the disappearance was not 4 months, but just under three: January 9 to April 1.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (172.172.9.63) on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 10:09 pm:

As of Tuesday last week, I'll bet that any connection between Chandra Levy, Z and/or Condit will never be discovered now. Condit must be secretly glad that he's been forgotten in the wake of recent events...

By Esau (Esau) (24.4.254.113) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 09:46 pm:

Ed N, I was thinking the same thing. He's Clinton without the charm.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (172.173.33.20) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 10:14 pm:

And that's his good point... maybe it's appropriate that he's from Ceres, it sure does seem like he hails from another planet (or asteroid, as the case may be...).

By Ed N (Ed_N) (172.173.33.20) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 10:19 pm:

Which reminds me... Ed Dames claims to have remote viewed Chandra's body in the Potomac "in close proximity to the Arlington Memorial Bridge." Only time will tell if the Keystone Kops will bother to drag the river and find it... if it's there.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (198.81.16.37) on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 12:31 am:

Ed,
The Potomac is not the type of river you can dredge.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (205.188.197.13) on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 11:57 pm:

Sylvie: there is a big difference between "dredging" and "dragging" a river. "Dredging" involves the use of a device to remove silt on the riverbed in order to deepen the channel for boats, etc. "Dragging" (or whatever the precise term is) involves using a hooklike device to drag along the riverbed behind a boat in order to hook something, such as a body that might be weighted down or caught in something at the bottom and would not otherwise be discovered. At least, that's how I've seen it done on TV, and I assume the Keystone Kops have watched the various reality cop shows on TV to see how real cops do their job.

By Bookworm (Bookworm) (24.29.217.79) on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 02:58 pm:

They can have a lot of ice on the Potomac that time of year also, especially along the edge of the river where it is shallower.

By Peter H (Peter_H) (141.154.17.89) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 10:17 am:

Not that its relevant, but just what type of river is it that can't be dredged? At least below Little Falls Dam, the Potomac bottom is extremely and silty progressively siltier going down stream, and has been dredged any number of times. If Sylvie means "dragged", as in for a body, the question still stands. There are a few submerged pilings here and there, but those would be mere occassional inconveniences, as the vast majority of the river from upper DC on down is readily navigable by craft of just about any size. So just what is undredgable or undraggable about this river?

As for the ice: sure in some years it gets completely clogged at least to below 14th Street, but so what? It never lasts long and is gone by mid-March. But more to the point . . .uh . . . what IS the point, exactly?

By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (172.180.63.132) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 11:34 am:

I remember when this thread was about the weird Chandra-Zodiac coincidence. Can we please get back to that?

By Zoe Glass (Zoe_Glass) (63.69.48.34) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 11:02 pm:

Tom, Seems more like a Zyncronicty than coincidence. The timing between your post and
Chandra's disappearing is to close to chalk up as
coincidence.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc14c55.ipt.aol.com - 172.193.76.85) on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 08:03 pm:

Update! Newsflash! Extra, extra, read all about it!!!

We all know that Chandra's body was finally located last week. It was in the same park that the Keystone Kops had already searched! It therefore goes without saying that Ed Dames and all the other remote viewers are full of it, and that Art Bell's been had yet again! Ed Dames claimed on his website that her body was dumped in the Potomac, and that it was "in close proximity to the Arlington Memorial Bridge" (conveniently, and probably because of his embarrassing false prediction, it's been removed from his website). Not only is Rock Creek Park some five miles north of there, her body was also found on dry land, nowhere near the Potomac! It's no wonder that the Army finally closed down their remote viewing project: Technical Remote Viewing doesn't work! One of them, I believe it was Dames, claimed that the Army hadn't given them enough time to develop the "technology" to the point where it actually worked: I think what really happened was that the Army finally wised up after nearly two decades and dumped the project to stop wasting taxpayer money.

My advice to anyone who is interested in TRV is to forget these hucksters. I'd suggest you spend your hard-earned $$$ with Ms. Cleo, but she went out of business. At least she didn't charge thousands of $$$.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (61.philadelphia06rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.26.61) on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 08:36 pm:

Dames was probably extrapolating from the facts surrounding the Joyce Chiang investigation. Anyone who gives a self-professed psychic any money probably deserves to lose it.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc0f402.ipt.aol.com - 172.192.244.2) on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 11:53 pm:

The thing with Dames is that, as I recall, he doesn't claim to be psychic, because other self-professed psychics allegedly can't do what remote viewers claim they can: pinpoint bodies, perps, etc a high percentage of the time, while psychics get a lucky hit one time in maybe a hundred, because their talent supposedly isn't fully developed.

In any case, I'm always willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but when someone claims to have certain abilities and can do all sorts of amazing things, then makes a prediction/prophecy only to have it not just fail, but fail miserably and embarrassingly, there's no doubt left in my mind what the real story is. It took the Army some 17 years to get the picture; it only took me nine months (from August 2001, when I first heard of him, to last week), and I didn't lose any $$$, I only had to wait and see. The discovery of Chandra's body proved that Dames doesn't know what he's talking about. If he decides to mention his embarrassing failure (I do not forget such things, such as Jeanne Dixon's and Nostradamus' et. al. failed prophecies), he'll probably come up with some lame excuse, like, "Well, Art, it's like this you see... there was a... um... ahhh... solar flare... yeah, yeah, that's it, that's it! A solar flare! That's what it was. And it uhh... disrupted the... ahhh, the ether... you know, the ummm... psychic medium our abilities function in, on the day that I remote viewed her body, and that's why I was way off. There's a one in a million chance of that ever happening again!"

And if you believe that, I have some beachfront property I need to unload, uhh, that's for sale in Arizona...

By Bucko (Bucko) (spider-mtc-ti044.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.101.169) on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 06:33 am:

Ed wrote: "It took the Army some 17 years to get the picture;..".

Kind of makes you wonder why it took 17 years! Now, about a potential buyer for that property....

By Mike (Oklahoma_Mike) (66.138.8.142) on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 09:16 am:

To quote my good friend Gil, from Kansas City regarding psychics in general and the Psychic Hotlines in particular, "I figure if they're really psychic, THEY'LL call ME!"

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc3a26e.ipt.aol.com - 172.195.162.110) on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 08:20 pm:

Guess what? Good ol' Ed "Nostradumbass" Dames was on Art Bell Friday night (5-31), and you'll never guess what Art's first question was. I was actually surprised that Dames didn't try to get out of it by saying, "What? I never said that..." Instead, he simply wrote it off as a "miss" claiming that he and his TRV buddies were probably influenced by the idea of a serial killer on the loose in DC. He then claimed that they're working on a suspect and that they'll nail Chandra's killer despite the embarrassing "miss."

I bet that the killer isn't even from DC (that's a no-brainer; California instead, perhaps?) and that Dames is going to be waaaaay off on this one too.

By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 64.30.209.40) on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 12:39 pm:

We know Chandra looked up the park mansion on her laptop.Did Condit call her(she had tried unsuccessfully to call him five times the day before)and ask her to meet him at the mansion after the employees had gone home at 4:00 PM?Chandra had told friends that she knew of the parks dangers and was street smart so they all,including her parents,believe she went there to meet someone.
Looking at her apartment we find,according to the police, she threw her bed cover in the frontroom and left her ID and cell phone,etc.all indicating she was in a hurry to make an appointment.It is known that Condit told her that when they were to meet she wasn't to bring her ID,etc.
At this time she told a friend that she was going to confront her lover and demand that he make a firm commitment.She also left a message for her aunt about some "exciting news."Was this a newly discovered pregnancy or did Condit call indicating he was ready to live with her after she left a firm demand he call or she would do something rash,so he says let's meet and talk at the old Klingle mansion at the DC park.He knew the park well and had ridden his bike there many times.
The affair was headed for on a collision course at this point.Here is a man that wants to run for president some day and now his lover is threatning to go public with their secret affair-or he was scared she would tell his wife or whatever.In his view this public exposure would ruin all that he had worked for.
At the park they meet and have sex(?)with one of his tie up deals(at least one person has said he was into bondage,etc.)then he kills her.Or when she gets to the mansion she is abducted by someone Condit knows or has hired to kill her.He could have ordered the hit guy to make it look like a rape or whatever and hid the body.
He reportedly told a friend that he could get someone to kill a person as he was due some favors.He said that it would be an easy thing to do.
It is that laptop look up by Levy that keeps me on a track that indicated she was going to the mansion and not that she was killed somewhere else and then driven to the park and dumped.The'young female scream'outside her apartment in the early hours in the early hours is suggestive,but we have the laptop activity later that morning and other evidence.Some speculate it was dummied to make it look like she was on the computer,etc.,to creat a false time frame.
We need the ice cream cup and leggings(do the knots-if there were knots, match any knotted clothing found(?) at Condits apartment or if not- any eyewitnesses that saw the knots like that flight attendant) spot analysis to know more and,of course ,that's being done.The CL pinkie ring and bracelets fate(carried away by animals as they grabbed their share?) could give valuable info too.
Everything thus far,seems to rule out a random killer,but one never knows.The damaged hyoid bone seems to indicate C was strangled(?)
The PD is "holding back some things"-sooooooooo.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (50.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.31.50) on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 05:39 pm:

The ice cream cup, I believe, is a big red herring. It was supposedly found between Klingle Mansion and the site where the body was found; a distance of at least one mile. I wouldn't give it any credence at all.

Of all the people associated with the case, the one of whom I'm most suspicious is the gym employee who cancelled Chandra's membership on the evening of April 30, and who was the last person to see her alive. He informed Chandra that because she hadn't given 30 days' notice he would have to charge her for an extra month--with the caveat that she could use that 30 days at a gym in Modesto, whose address he gave her on a printout. According to him they spoke together for about half an hour.

The next day Chandra, dressed in exercise clothes, went to Rock Creek park, after having performed a web search for directions to Klingle Mansion. I think it's obvious that she wanted to exercise on one of the walking/jogging paths in the park, especially since her gym membership at the D.C. club ostensibly was no longer good. The most logical assumption is that someone approached her, perhaps knocked her on the head to gain control of her (n.b. the crack found in her skull) and carried her unconscious to the site where the body was eventually found. The knotted leggings indicate tying, or perhaps a means of ligature strangulation.

Early in 1999, former intern Joyce Chiang disappeared from DuPont circle, which happens to be the location of Chandra's gym, the Washington Sports Club. Yet another intern (can't recall her name) disappeared under similar circumstances.

I think we have a classical serial killer in the area, and since he seems to be adept at hiding bodies, we've probably got other remains out there that have yet to be found.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-mtc-th054.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.102.44) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 09:59 am:

Douglas,
With all due respect I cannot agree with your assessment. Joyce Chiang (body found in the Potomac) is heavily being investigated as a suicide. Christine Mirzayan's body was found the day after she left a late night party, beaten to death in full view on a sidewalk. So far there is not much in common.
What is a fact though is that Chandra's friends all have said that she would never have jogged in Rock Creek Park. She would not even go with a girlfriend in well travelled areas of the park. So I highly doubt she would have merrily jogged along alone, in a spot where noone would have seen her (according to your theory).
Plus you do not check out the Klingle Mansion (largely used as a place of storage) as a great place to go exercising near. You may very well however use it as a meeting place.
Would like to go into more but gotta run.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (199.251.68.84) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 10:50 am:

Sylvie, the D.C. police have never given an adequate reason for classifying Chiang's death as a suicide, but I understand they've backed off recently. Her actions in the days and hours leading up to her death weren't those of someone contemplating suicide, and her identity card was found wrapped in a newspaper dated two days later than her disappearance.

Rock Creek Park is densely wooded in some parts, but the area near Klingle Mansion has lots of recreational facilities, including equestrian and jogging trails. It's hard to say what her exact motive might have been for going there (people can be notoriously inscrutable and capricious as well) and she might very well have gone to meet someone there--not necessarily Condit, either, whose schedule was very tight that day.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-mtc-th032.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.102.32) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 02:02 pm:

Perhaps the most bizarre statement that Condit has made is the he really doesn't recall whether he had sex with Chandra or not the day of her disappearance.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (122.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.17.122) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 02:15 pm:

That is truly bizarre. And if he didn't do her in, he's got to be a heck of an unlucky guy.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-mtc-th032.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.102.32) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 02:25 pm:

That's true and I'm open to all possibilities.
From a statistical point of view though, keep in mind that 75% of all murdered women are killed by someone they knew and 50% of those are killed by a lover.

By Zander Kite (Zk) (a010-0047.stbg.splitrock.net - 64.196.40.47) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 03:00 pm:

Slyvie, I heard some expert say the same things concerning the percentages. All those percentages go right out the window when you find a body in an isolated area. The odds now are in favor of a DC serial killer using an isolated area as a "body-recovery site". That's what I've thought all along, some version of a chronic sex-criminal anyway. I've viewed this "political-hit" angle as a tabloid romance from the beginning.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (spider-wq052.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.200.173) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 04:03 pm:

Zander,

I happen to be in agreement with you. I'm convinced that a serial killer murdered Chandra. From what I can gather, the same killer/s are responsible for at least two other homicides in the DC area. Is it possible that Chandra's body was dumped in the park after it had been initially searched?

Scott

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-wc051.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.193.41) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 04:14 pm:

Really?
I think it all points to someone she knew. She is the only one of the three to be found in an isolated area. Although the pregnancy possibility does coincide with Chandra confiding to her Aunt "I've got some really big news", my hunch is that it was a rendez-vous with her lover, which turned into a Jennifer Levin type situation. Especially in light of Condit's ex- mistresses witnessing to his affinity for S&M.

By Mike (Oklahoma_Mike) (66.138.8.67) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 06:44 pm:

As a former runner myself I can attest that what Ms. Levy did and did not take with her that day, as well as the condition of her apartment agree 100% with her leaving her apartment with the intention to go jogging. The only incongrus fact, and I agree it is a biggie, is her looking up the site of the Klingle mansion. Unless she just wanted to jog that way for some reason. With all that we know was going on in her life, losing her internship, preparing for a move back west, maybe job hunting etc., I would not put too much stock in her breaking her regular routine. Her regular routine was already disrupted, so the fact she may have changed her habits and went jogging alone, maybe on a new trail she had heard about and wanted to see before she moved, should not be considered too closely. Poeple may change routines when part of it has already been blown to heck. I read just last week the DC cops are looking closely at a man in prison for assualting 2 female joggers last year, who was arrested last summer after Ms. Levy's disappearance. Also, there have been other young women similar in description to Ms. Levy to disappear in the area. I suspect a serial killer, and I think he's the guy in jail now.
Understand, I am not trying to defend Condit. At best he proved himself a sleazebag who cared much more about protecting his career than the life of a young woman he knew. The fact he still got 37% of the vote in his re-election primary proves P.T. Barnum is STILL RIGHT!
As to Condit being unlucky if he was not the killer, no, he just pushed the laws of averages. He had indulged in a long series of illicit romance and in the words of the Jedi Mastr from the Phantom Menace, "If you gamble long enough, someday you lose".

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (199.philadelphia08rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.31.199) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 07:48 pm:

In a sense I liken the Levy case to that of Darlene Ferrin. No matter what the actual circumstances of her death, there's no doubt that she was involved in some kind of intrigue, and that has played a significant role in leading the Zodiac investigation off on an unnecessary tangent.

By Scott Bullock (Scott_Bullock) (spider-ntc-tc053.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.17.43) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 10:07 pm:

I saw one of Chandra's friends being interviewed on MSNBC. I can't remember her name, but she frequently jogged and exercised with Chandra. Anyway, she swears up and down that Chandra would never go jogging alone. I'm not sure what to make of that. Also, I'm seriously wondering if her body was dumped in the park after it had been originally searched. What do you folks think?

Scott

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc2056f.ipt.aol.com - 172.194.5.111) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 11:46 pm:

Scott: the Keystone Kops "searched" the park last May, but once Chandra was found, they suddenly claimed they didn't search all of it because some areas are remote etc. I think her body was there all the time, and remained undiscovered because the Kops couldn't be bothered to do an efficient and competent job.

Since her friend is absolutely positive that Chandra would never jog alone, and since women should know full well the dangers of being alone in such a remote area, I would imagine that she might have been preparing to go out jogging, but was lured out to the park on the pretext of some sort of meeting before she left to jog, perhaps by a last-minute phone call.

The other thing is that DC has one of the highest crime rates in the country, and so she should have been even more cautious about jogging in the park alone if that is in fact what she did. If so, then she might very well be the victim of a serial killer or something, but, as far as I'm concerned, the evidence points to a certain loser from Ceres as the one who was involved somehow.

By Zander Kite (Zk) (a010-0026.stbg.splitrock.net - 64.196.40.26) on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 07:10 am:

As far as her body being placed or moved to the park after the initial police search: I would lean more towards she being placed in the park not long after her disappearance however this guy might be a necro or imprisonist. If they find a rash of bones and clothing in one area then they can say that this is generally where she was placed and not the result of animal-dragging. One might look at the knotted stocking as evidence of a spur-of-the-moment type assault or otherwise a not highly planned abduction, but he may be an organized killer who uses handcuffs but gets an added thrill from using the victims own clothing in the assault. Of course, he would take the cuffs with him. He may have worked out a routine between the abduction area and the park, which is a no-brainer to develop as a "body-recovery" site, I would imagine. Is it possible that Chandra got picked up by a cab on the day she disappeared?

By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 64.30.209.40) on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:07 am:

Doug,
There will be a great many theories as to Chandras fate,but for you to rule out the possible value of the ice cream cup BEFORE any test results and this early on, greatly puzzles me.Let's see what the results are before we make a negative judgement.The same goes for the 'spots' on the garment.We don't know all of the evidence that the police are holding back.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc20dfe.ipt.aol.com - 172.194.13.254) on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:18 am:

Howard: that's making the assumption that the Keystone Kops were competent enough to actually find any evidence.

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (199.251.68.84) on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:19 am:

Howard, I'm just saying that as someone whose opinion doesn't really matter one way or the other, it's way down on my list. If I had access to the evidence and the crime lab, I'd probably be a bit more objective.

By Judy (Judy) (waf-dc28-160.rasserver.net - 206.215.13.160) on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 04:24 pm:

Maybe Condit had arranged to meet Chandra in
Rock Creek Park. However, perhaps she arrived
early,and was abducted or killed, before he arrived.

As we all know, the last thing he would ever do
would be to admit that a meeting had been planned.
Especially, if he had foul play in mind... And
even if he did not intend to harm her, under the
circumstances, I'm sure he knew no one would ever
believe him. How ironic-- guilt by association.

Judy

P.S. It is interesting that a container of ice
cream has gained significance. As I recall, at
least initially, ice cream seemed important when
Nicole Brown was found murdered.

By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-130.linkline.com - 64.30.217.130) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:11 am:

Ed,
When c was with C they would always SHARE a cup of Baskin Robbins ice cream(there is a B&R near the park),so there would be an interest in getting that cup to the FBI for DNA analysis.This they did.
Judy,according to the police,C seemed to have left her apartment rather quickly.She 'tossed' a bed cover she was washing into the frontroom.She did not take her cell and ID/wallet,just as C had always instructed her to do.Looking up the old Klingle mansion leads some investigators to believe she was probably told(did C do the calling knowing someon else was to meet her and take care of her?) to meet someone there and she looked it up on the net.
ALL of her friends and her parents have said repeatedly, that C would NEVER go to the park and that she must have been summoned there by someone she trusted.Some investigators believe C took a cab to the park.Remember she is leaving soon and she is desiring to meet with C.C calls ol' C several times trying to get a hold him.She may have had some "big news" to tell him!
If they had sex(if she did have sex did the perp-other than C, rape her her-we await that analysis) in his car at the Klingle parking lot,if he was the one that met up with her(if this is even the scenario!)then after this she could have confronted him as she told a friend she was going to do.He warned her not to do this,but this time she was totally determined to give C an ultimatum.If she told him she was pregnant and that if he didn't marry her she was going to expose the relationship,he could have lost it.This has happened many times and case history is replete with this kind of situation.
One medical doctor killed his partner(he was married and having a relationship with her)after a confrontation.He had a lot to lose to!He was convicted of murder.
Right now,it's interesting to look at the possibilities.I am open.

By Judy (Judy) (waf-dc29-172.rasserver.net - 206.215.14.172) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 08:29 am:

Howard, I am very familiar with this case. I
am just suggesting a scenario that I feel could
be plausible-that no one else has really suggested.

Judy

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (12.81.120.18) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 06:45 pm:

I'm still interested in the FBI guy she boasted of boffing, just as I remain curious about the Pentagon guy that supposedly caused Lewinsky to terminate a pregnancy he'd participated in.

Women who do the sort of thing that Lewinsky and Levy were into (sex motivated by male power) tend toward multiple partners. Sure, Condit's a sleaze (like Bubba), but that doesn't mean he killed her or had her killed.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc15bd9.ipt.aol.com - 172.193.91.217) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 07:10 pm:

I just read today that Chandra did not jog. Ergo, she did not go to the park to jog, she obviously went there to meet someone. Since she did not take her ID, and Condit insisted she never bring it along whenever they met, what does that tell us? He obviously knows more than he's told us, and, if he actually had nothing to do with her murder, his actions in the months following her disappearance were very, very suspicious in any case.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc15bd9.ipt.aol.com - 172.193.91.217) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 07:15 pm:

I just thought of something. Wasn't her skeleton discovered on May 22nd? That just happens to be the 10th anniversary of Johnny Carson's final appearance on The Tonight Show. Coincidence, synchronicity, zynchronicity, or should Johnny Carson be questioned as well?

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (4.sanfrancisco-12rh16rt-ca.dial-access.att.net - 12.81.119.4) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 09:17 pm:

Try a binary Morse translation of 522.

DXXII, maybe it was a Southerner.

At all events, daughters of Jewish oncologists should be henceforth banned from intern positions in the Federal government. They seem to have a predeliction for engagements with their bosses and other pseudo-Alpha males.

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (4.sanfrancisco-12rh16rt-ca.dial-access.att.net - 12.81.119.4) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 09:24 pm:

It occurs to me that 522 = 9 which is, of course, the number of vanishing. Maybe O'Hare did it, in one of his astounding diguises, just to embarass the House Intelligence Committee.

Has anybody tried placing a radian over the location?

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (26.philadelphia04rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.22.26) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 09:28 pm:

Ed, if she didn't jog, why did she come to the park dressed in jogging clothes and running shoes and carrying a Walkman-like device?

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acc36c19.ipt.aol.com - 172.195.108.25) on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 11:08 pm:

Apparently they weren't jogging clothes, and a lot of people wear tennis or running shoes. I wear tennis shoes a lot, and haven't played tennis in something like 20 years; I bet a lot of people who don't run wear running/jogging shoes too. I also see people on the street every day who have walkmen who are not jogging.

By Judy (Judy) (waf-dc26-162.rasserver.net - 206.214.2.162) on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 07:18 am:

I think perhaps too much is being made of the
fact that Chandra did not have her ID with her.

I hate to carry a purse-or even a wallet. If I am
just running errands, or going out for a walk-
I never carry ID. This--which I know is not a
good idea-includes my license. I really only use
my wallet and my purse when I am going to work.

I can't speak for other women-but I often go out
with just my keys and money in my pocket. I just
find carrying a purse or wallet a nuisance.

Judy

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-ntc-ta064.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.16.49) on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 07:51 am:

I'm the same way Judy, however, I always bring my cell phone, always. If I go to a movie or a play, I'll temporarily turn it off, but it is there if I need it.

By Judy (Judy) (waf-dc24-82.rasserver.net - 205.187.255.82) on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 08:38 am:

Sylvie, I think many women do the same thing.
However, I don't own a cell phone...

Judy

By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (190.philadelphia01rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 12.90.16.190) on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 08:59 am:

Say what you want about cell phones, they're a godsend to women, and I think they're becoming something of a deterrent to crime.

By Zander Kite (Zk) (a010-0026.stbg.splitrock.net - 64.196.40.26) on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 01:24 pm:

The Keystoners are running a really poor show. They appear incompetent in their skeleton and evidence recovery effort. They should have brought in the Boy Scouts right away. They need to start searching bird nests or otherwise abandoned and fallen nests in order to possibly find a suspect hair among Chandras. I think I shall just sit back and observe just how poorly an investigation can be run. Of course they will have DNA and luck to fall back on. It's their only hope. Zynchronicity on May 22nd? Obviously!

By Alan Cabal (Alan_Cabal) (53.sanfrancisco-12rh15rt-ca.dial-access.att.net - 12.81.118.53) on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 09:34 pm:

A baby-snatchin' dingo did it. His human companion pulled the pickup over to the curb near Chandra's house to drain his lizard as she was coming out to score some crack. The dingo saw Chandra and became fixated on Chandra's legendary puppies bouncing with delight beneath her t-shirt. With only one purpose in its bones the dingo laeped out of the cab of the truck and savaged the poor woman.

By Sylvie (Sylvie14) (spider-ntc-ta034.proxy.aol.com - 198.81.16.34) on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 02:02 pm:

Regarding Condit's "tight schedule" the day of Chandra's disappearance, it appears that it was not so tight after all. His office closed at 4pm. He then says he went to see his chiropractor, but bizarrely could not remember the doctor's name or address. Then he says he met with ABC-TV reporter Rebecca Cooper, but Cooper provided proof their meeting was actually the next day.
At 7pm he claims he was having dinner with his wife. That is unconfirmed.
So basically he has no alibi whatsoever after he left his office at 4pm., until the next morning.

By Ed N (Ed_N) (acbf4e33.ipt.aol.com - 172.191.78.51) on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 10:32 pm:

And that surprises anyone??? That's the thing with politicians, you can always tell when they lie: when their lips move. It's second nature.

I think they better start looking into alibis Condidit had or didn't have for certain dates from 12-1968 to 10-1969. In fact, if you put glasses on his lyin' mug, I bet he really looks like the composite...

By Valentine Smith (Valentinesmith) (spider-mtc-te011.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.103.151) on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 11:25 pm:

gak!!! Ed, I think you have a point about the composite! (giggle)

Honestly, the guy DOES look like a creep. But, luckily, that's not enough to get someone charged with murder. Personally, I think he's guilty as can be. Whether he did it himself, or had somebody else do it for him...I think he's responsible.

Now...all that means is that the current wave of serial killer theories hasn't convinced me YET. I have no more reason to believe one than the other. It's just...those beady little eyes that Condit has...

By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 64.30.209.40) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 02:29 pm:

The thing about Chandra is that she was very street smart and always carried a cell,etc.That is what was so amazing because on the day she vanished-she left her wallet and cell phone at her apartment.When Condit would call he would tell her not to bring anything,including all forms of ID.This was against everything she was about when it came to safety,etc.
All of her friends and the parents,said she would not go to the park and that she didn't jog.If she were to meet a trusted friend,like Condit,then she would go to that place,usually by taxi.Judging by the crisis in their relationship at that point and her stated desire to confront Condit,she would 'accept' the walk to a meeting point at the park.
Since, no one saw her, she may have met him early on and they both went to the Klingle mansion for a serious talk.Did he have his car parked in the mansion lot?And was there someone else there in another car and did Condit then leave after they had been talking,etc., to allow that someone to 'take care' of her?
I have read of many murder for hire cases and these kinds of scenarios happen all of the time.It is surprising the kinds of people -from all stations and walks of life, that hire others to kill someone!All speculation to be sure.