Zodiac was influenced by the 1930s murder of Bob Lord
Zodiackiller.com Message Board: Theories: Zodiac was influenced by the 1930s murder of Bob Lord
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (12-224-186-54.client.attbi.com - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 10:50 pm:|
See my 4-4-02 News Center update...
Of the few people who commit murder, only an extremely small percentage feel the need to taunt. Of that small percentage, the number who would choose a symbol as a signature in a taunting note or letter has to be absolutely minuscule.
Therefore (logically), the killer of Bob Lord would have to be either the Zodiac killer, or someone who the Zodiac was greatly influenced by.
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 01:59 pm:|
I doubt it was the Zodiac killer given the almost 40 years between this crime and the
Its probably very likely Zodiac was influenced by this, however I don't think its impossible for this to be a coincidence.
The crosshair symbol is like the Nazi sign, the anarchy sign, 666, and the skull/crossbones. Its a sign to insight fear. Its worth taking a look into but simply using the same symbol does not link every crime together.
|By Spencer (Spencer) (wood-hall-204-188.lclark.edu - 18.104.22.168) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 02:06 pm:|
Do you know what year the crime happened? What magazine published the article?
|By Clark Kent (Clark) (test2.pacinfo.com - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 07:16 pm:|
Ryan: I also doubt it was the Zodiac killer, but I wonder if there might be ties
beyond coincidence. For example, if Allen was Z (and I'm not saying he was!), perhaps he
was inspired by an Atascadero patient involved in Lord's murder. Lord was a San Diego
resident, and his girlfriend said he was being threatened and followed back there, prior
to his New Orleans visit. If this California harassment had nothing to do with his New
Orleans murder, then I wonder what this guy must have done to make so many enemies!
Spencer: The only California "Bob Lord" of the right age that I could find was a man who died two weeks before his 21st birthday on May 12, 1945. I checked the New Orleans Times-Picayune for this week, however, and found nothing. Additionally, a note on a genealogy board implies that this Bob Lord died in a plane crash. If I could find the right year, it'd be a piece of cake to get any articles...
|By Ryan Olesin (Ryan) (d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 07:33 pm:|
What about Robert Lord?
|By Clark Kent (Clark) (test2.pacinfo.com - 188.8.131.52) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 07:56 pm:|
Yep, that's actually the name I searched. "Robert G. Lord" was the close match.
|By Ed N (Ed_N) (acbffa46.ipt.aol.com - 184.108.40.206) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 10:23 pm:|
If it occurred in 1938, we're looking at 30 years between it and LHR. Out of the named suspects, Jack Beeman would have been around 21 years of age at the time, and 51 for the Zodiac murders. If we are to believe Bill Beeman, he suggests that JB might also be responsible for the Texarkana murders, and perhaps as many as 84 murders, as I recall (based on a paper of JB's on which 84 somethings were marked off. BB thought it was JB keeping track of his murders). In any case, if we are to assume that Z had something to do with it, then he had to have been born earlier in the century; that, of course, rules out almost every Z suspect there is. If anything, it's more likely that Z knew about this case and was influenced by it regarding his choice of personal symbols.
|By Clark Kent (Clark) (test2.pacinfo.com - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 11:44 pm:|
I have strong doubts about Jack Beeman as a suspect, mainly because Bill Beeman
appeared to have been under a lot of mental stress when he wrote "Jack the
Zodiac," judging from both the writing and the illustrations.
While I assume that Lord's murder remains unsolved, this may not be the case. It would be interesting if the perp had ties to, say, Vallejo.
Also, we don't know what year this event is from. I can't tell by the clothing, and there are no cars in the photos to help me date it. To my eyes, it could just as easily be from the 1920s or 1940s as the 1930s. To play devil's advocate, if it occurred in 1945 and the killer was around Lord's age, he'd be around 44-45 in 1969, which is just at the high end of the SF composite.
Again, I doubt that Lord's killer is the Zodiac; the handwriting isn't even close.
|By Linda (Linda) (208-59-124-126.s126.tnt1.frdr.md.dialup.rcn.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 06:47 am:|
Tom said above, "Of the few people who commit murder, only an extremely small
percentage feel the need to taunt. Of that small
percentage, the number who would choose a symbol as a signature in a taunting note or letter has to be
Tom You're so right regarding percentages. That's why I feel so strongly about the best "known" suspect in this case being "Kaczynski."
We know that both Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski (aka Unabomber):
2. Understood and Used Code or Cryptography
3. Corresponded with both the media and police (and victims - if we find can prove that the Bates murder was indeed a Zodiac attack).
4. Taunted the public (not only did they taunt, they used similar means and then retracted their threat in future correspondences) and Police/FBI (telling them how stupid they wrere)
5. Handwriting/printing styles are similar and can't be ruled out
6. Had similar styles in content, grammar and format of their writings which are extremely unique - See: http://home.att.net/~mignarda/style.html
7. Provided "Proof" to those he corresponded with that he was who he said he was.
The above list is just a short and brief one helping to narrow down the percentages of Kaczynski as an extremely strong suspect (not the least of which there is no PROOF or ALIBI that has been able to be given or found for TK at the time of any of the Z murders). The main problem people have with Ted being Z is that they don't believe that the MO is the same and they say the "fingerprints" don't match (and they evidently don't match any of the other suspects. As far as the fingerprints, there is no proof that the "fingerprints" that are being talked about are that of the Zodiac anyway.
How many other Z suspects are KNOWN to have killed, used cryptography, written, taunted and insisted on providing proof as to who they were?
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (22.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 07:15 am:|
Not only that, Linda, but when you're looking at that minuscule percentage of killers who choose a symbol as a signature, consider that Kaczynski made use of a device that was so like that Zodiac crosshair circle as to be virtually identical (Yggdrasil in circle).
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (12-224-186-54.client.attbi.com - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 10:09 am:|
True, but it's also quite possible that those who have exhibited similar behavior as
Zodiac since 1969 were simply heavily influenced by him, as the original Zodiac might have
been influenced by the Lord murder, Chan movies, Dangerous Game, etc.
In fact, I'd put Ted on top of the "Potentially Influenced by Zodiac" list due to his close proximity to the Bay Area at the time of Zodiac's activity.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (3.philadelphia04rh.15.pa.dial-access.att.net - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 11:01 am:|
But copycatting M.O. and copycatting psychology and criminal signature are two completely different things. The first is understandable, though unlikely; the second is fairly well improbable.
|By Zander Kite (Zk) (a010-1026.stbg.splitrock.net - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 12:26 pm:|
It appears Zodiac has payed tribute to the publicity-seeking killers before him. The Ripper is an obvious one and the Lord case is a good example. I belive Zodiac has also payed tribute to William Heirens, who scrawled on a wall "For heavens sake, catch me before I kill more, I cannot control myself." Zodiac closed a writing with "I will loose all control of myself and set the bomb up. Please help me. I cannot remain in control for much longer." Heirens was a huge story in Chicago where he was arrested in 1946.
|By Douglas Oswell (Dowland) (191.philadelphia01rh.16.pa.dial-access.att.net - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 02:42 pm:|
Excellent, Zander. Zodiac appears to have been conscious of the killers who came before him.
|By Ed N (Ed_N) (acbf24ef.ipt.aol.com - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 11:28 pm:|
Clark: I have doubts about Beeman as well, however, I threw that in because he'd
certainly have been old enough out of all the named Z suspects to have killed in the
1930's and again in 1968-69. However, in addition to possibly being influenced by Lord's
murder (as far as the symbol goes anyway), I also have the suspicion that Z might have
been influenced by the Axeman of New Orleans ca. 1918.
Speaking of Heirens, I heard a blurb about him on the radio in the last couple of days. It seems he wants a retrial or something, because he's suddenly decided after more than half a century that his confession was forced out of him or something.
|By WingWalker (Wingwalker) (aca7a531.ipt.aol.com - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 04:05 am:|
Why are you being mum on what magazine that article is from? Was it a magazine that had nationwide distribution?
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (12-224-186-54.client.attbi.com - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 03:43 pm:|
The story was from (I believe) Startling Detective, but am not 100%.
|By Dboba (Dboba) (ma-plymouthsouth3b-163.ply.adelphia.net - 188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 07:45 pm:|
I got a real creepy feeling when I read the Bob Lord thing.....the similarities are just too bizarre and uncanny for mere coincidence....it is possible, if Zodiac is some kind of cult, that there might be a connection....but I fantasized a real good science fiction plot around that whole Bob Lord thing....it goes like this....Zodiac activity seems to have stopped around 1978 for some strange reason....Supposedly the Navy conducted an experiment in the 1940s where they tried putting a heavy magnetic field on a ship to make it disappear visually..the theory was they could use a huge magnetic field to bend light rays around the ship and make it invisible to enemy detection...this was supposedly called The Philadelphia Experiment....well it seems that the Experiment not only worked, it made the ship disappear visually and on radar, but it also transported it back in time...the crew, upon returning, got sick and some died...but the survivors reported ending up in Baltimore in the early 1800s..they had Time Traveled!....well...the evidence points to our Zodiac suspect as being maybe involved with the Navy...what if he somehow got a hold of the technology used in the Philadelphia Experiment in San Diego..which is a big Navy town..and somehow transported himself back to 1938...what if Bob Lord was on to him...."knew too much"....so Zodiac had to kill him, or what if Bob Lord was an agent sent back in time to destroy Zodiac before he could screw up history???? Intriguing plot scenario.....anyway that is what popped into my mind when I read the Bob Lord thing....too many sci-fi movies I guess...
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (ont-cvx1-15.linkline.com - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 01:09 am:|
I am back with you-I have always been here.BW-right Esau?
|By Esau (Esau) (12-246-187-137.client.attbi.com - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 01:45 pm:|
Howard, Philiadelphia.. Phil.... a deli..... Zodaic was named Phillips and once ate at a deli.......
|By Chris (Chris) (adsl-216-63-175-210.dsl.elpstx.swbell.net - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 12:34 am:|
The distribution of the article is of the utmost importance. If it was not nationwide
but local, it would(i think) point to a navy man for sure. Was Ethan Allen ever stationed
near New Orleans?
Of all the far fetched ideas R.G. has had, this might have promise. Its a twisted and disturbing world we live in.
|By Chris (Chris) (adsl-216-63-174-137.dsl.elpstx.swbell.net - 22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 11:38 pm:|
Has anyone attempted to find this Shurley Bob Jones?
|By Howard Davis (Howard) (dsl-gte-10407-2.linkline.com - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 05:25 pm:|
That would be a good project for a poster/s.
|By Zander Kite (Zk) (a010-0025.stbg.splitrock.net - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 08:16 pm:|
Shurley Jones was from Wichita, Kansas, BTW.
|By Doug 2 (Doug_2) (snv-global1.corp.yahoo.com - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:37 pm:|
sorry...I just joined and looked around the site but didn't see any summary of this
1930s murder of Bob Lord. Is there a URL that gives more info?
|By Prisk29 (Prisk29) (lbv-ca24-233.rasserver.net - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 01:11 pm:|
you can find the info on it in the "news center" here.
|By Prisk29 (Prisk29) (lbv-ca24-233.rasserver.net - 18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 01:14 pm:|
It is on 4-03-02 and is highlited as "unsolved murder from the 1930's"
|By Doug 2 (Doug_2) (snv-global1.corp.yahoo.com - 22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 12:28 pm:|
Yikes! That is very freaky. Similar style of handwriting and everything! This'll keep me up nights for awhile.
|By Chris Bohn (Chris) (adsl-65-65-246-233.dsl.elpstx.swbell.net - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 12:30 am:|
If Im not mistaken there is even a three stroke k in the letter. What year was the
Starling Detective issued Tom? Were you provided with an actual copy by mail or did you
recieve an emailed version? What was Lord running from in San Diego?
The article mentions him telling Shurley something, but as old as that case is it would be impossible to interview her.(More likely to interview her offspring)
Was the case ever solved?(Or is that a stupid question)?
|By Tom Voigt (Tom_Voigt) (12-224-186-54.client.attbi.com - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 12:48 am:|
Chris, unfortunately I don't know much more than is contained in the story. Yet.
|By Chris Bohn (Chris) (adsl-65-65-246-233.dsl.elpstx.swbell.net - 184.108.40.206) on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 01:10 am:|